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ESPN Insider is reporting that Orlando and Toronto are burning up the phone lines. They have reached in principle to the primaries of a trade involving the Magic sending Juwan Howard, Andrew DeClercq to the Raptors for the disgruntled Lamond Murray, retired Eric Montross (and his hefty salary coming off the books) and a draft pick. There would be others involved but they have agreed to the principles of the trade.


I think this helps the raps quite a bit. Just need C-Webb to get all the members of the fab 5 !!!
 

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Are you serious? Why would the Raptors do this? I know Murray is just sitting their on the bench, but Howard has a bad contract. The Magic get some cap relief, I guess, with Montross, and they get a pretty good scorer in Murray.
 

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Originally posted by <b>KokoTheMonkey</b>!
Are you serious? Why would the Raptors do this? I know Murray is just sitting their on the bench, but Howard has a bad contract. The Magic get some cap relief, I guess, with Montross, and they get a pretty good scorer in Murray.
the raps get two capable big men to fortify their frontline. i think howard would work well in KO's system and his contract is no longer horrible. it's the draft pick that i'm worried about, there's no way i'd give up a future first rounder.
 

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duke of new york, a#1
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This is curious.

Juwan, DeClercq
for
Murray, Montross, and ?

Juwan's contract is long, but it isn't too hard to swallow. He'd be making 4.9/5.4/5.9/6.4/6.9 over the next five years, with a player's option in the sixth. For a double-double type player with some great touch in the paint, I could take that. And DeClercq hardly makes any money (2.5/2.7) in his two-year contract.

We give up Murray and Montross and a pick (or Mo Pete) to get Juwan and DeClercq, two reliable big men?

I'm interested. Keep talking.
 

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Originally posted by <b>gp366</b>!
ESPN Insider is reporting that Orlando and Toronto are burning up the phone lines. They have reached in principle to the primaries of a trade involving the Magic sending Juwan Howard, Andrew DeClercq to the Raptors for the disgruntled Lamond Murray, retired Eric Montross (and his hefty salary coming off the books) and a draft pick. There would be others involved but they have agreed to the principles of the trade.


I think this helps the raps quite a bit. Just need C-Webb to get all the members of the fab 5 !!!
this report is as BOGUS as your vince out for 4-6 weeks..
 

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Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!

Juwan's contract is long, but it isn't too hard to swallow. He'd be making 4.9/5.4/5.9/6.4/6.9 over the next five years, with a player's option in the sixth. For a double-double type player with some great touch in the paint, I could take that. And DeClercq hardly makes any money (2.5/2.7) in his two-year contract.

We give up Murray and Montross and a pick (or Mo Pete) to get Juwan and DeClercq, two reliable big men?

I'm interested. Keep talking.
i'm personally not interested in bailing the magic out of one of the most obscene contracts handed out in the summer of '03. juwan howard has a great name (i said this all in july). but he is no longer an nba player who i believe can contribute solid minutes. i don't think he's old; i just don't think he's good enough. being on the hook for the next six years for this borderline contributor is NOT worthwhile- and this is coming from a fan who doesn't think much of weighing contracts. however, this rumour just off the charts in terms of financial myopia (in my opinion).

andrew declercq, on the other hand, is a player who has been ridiculed by nba personalities for several years now. he is a big body- and that's about it (that IS it). i don't personally value him any more than robert archibald, since at least arch is trying to ply his trade on a more permanent basis. declercq has already established himself as an nba player... for some questionable reasons. he shouldn't have the same inspiration to play well that arch does; lord knows he's never had the ability.

i personally don't think this trade would make us much bigger, anyway. KO plays a tight rotation- if howard and declercq were given minutes, that would likely stick arch to the bench (and maybe even baxter) in their place.

i mean, in terms of quality, the trade doesn't make us much worse. of course not. but what it does do is severely hamstring our flexibility in terms of long-term cap limitations. to tell you the truth, i don't know WHAT we gain from this. howard is, if there ever was, has-been material, and there is a reason why orlando is trying to rid themselves of a player who fooled them (like he seems to currently be fooling grunwald) just six months ago.

those group of trade principals is a non-starter for me. i really hope grunwald isn't so short-sighted as to try to address a big man problem before michael bradley even returns from injury to show what he can do. and to do it for howard and declercq who are, to me, as overrated as they could ever be, is just a poor decision (imo).

i just hope he doesn't act. the juwan howard of 2003-04 (and the juwan howard of 2007-08!!!) is hardly even a shell of the juwan howard circa 1995-96. moreover, andrew declercq is on the verge of becoming utterly unserviceable (in my opinion).

of course, it's still only speculation. hopefully that rumour is just that- and nothing more. if there's a draft pick involved, i may just check myself into an insane asylum.

peace
 

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i don't mind this trade...ballocks pointed out that howard is just a shell of wut he used to be...however this is only physically and guess wut this could in turn help develope chris bosh...the knowledge howard has can really help even if we only play him 20mins a game. and declerq is a banger plain and simple...we need rebounds we'll get them...lamond and montross are expendable. I'd definately do this trade, not for pure skill but also knowledge inside.
 

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duke of new york, a#1
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There are very, very few teams in the NBA (if any) that aren't currently looking for a decent big man. The teams that have them covet them, and the teams that want them most likely won't get them without offering something good in exchange.

How badly do we need a big is the question, right?

Well, starting Lonny Baxter is a pretty good sign of what shape we are in. Having Bob Archibald play 25 minutes is another.


I'm not saying that Juwan is exactly what we need; but at this point, he might be the best we can get.

Trading two DNP players and a future, lottery-protected pick for 15/7 Howard and garbage-man centre DeClercq isn't too high a price.


At the very least, I think Howard could be a decent mentor for Chris Bosh. Howard has been an undersized centre in the past and has experience that Bosh could benefit from.


Rose/Alvin/Milt
Carter/Roger
Marshall/Mo Pete
Howard/Baxter/Bradley
Bosh/DeClercq/Archibald/Moiso


I think that lineup is an improvement.

Originally posted by <b>ballocks</b>!
howard is, if there ever was, has-been material, and there is a reason why orlando is trying to rid themselves of a player who fooled them (like he seems to currently be fooling grunwald) just six months ago.
We wouldn't be asking Howard to become a second-option. In fact, with Rose, Carter, Bosh, and Marshall on the floor, Howard would be lucky to get six or seven shots in a game.

What we need most is experience in the paint, rebounding, size, and someone who can fit into KO's system. I think Juwan could do that. If we ask him to do more, like the Magic, we would regret it.


But, who knows if there is any truth to this rumour in the first place! lol
 

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Toronto while VC and Bosh are out:
PG: Alvin Williams
SG: Jalen Rose
SF: Donyell Marshall
PF: Juwan Howard
C: Lonny Baxter

This deal makes the Raptors an EC favorite, IMO, as they'll have a starting lineup of Rose, Carter, Marshall, Bosh and Howard.
 

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I would make this trade ONLY if we are not offered anything better by the February 18th trade deadline. We lose Lamond Murray, a guy who has been frozen solid to a chair on the sidelines all season long. We lose Eric Montross, a guy who is retired anyways, and we'd have to send another play Magic's way. This other play can be only one of the following in order to make the salaries work out: Morris Peterson, Jerome Moiso, or Michael Bradley. I would only offer Moiso or Bradley, and if the Magic want Peterson then I say NO to the trade. In return we get back Juwan Howard who can be a 16 ppg, 10 rpg guy for us on a nightly basis. We also acquire DeClercq, a hardnosed centre, something that Kevin O'Neill has been wanting for a very long time now.

In my mind the Lamond Murray, Eric Montross, Jerome Moiso or Michael Bradley for Juwan Howard, and Andrew DeClercq is a very reasonable trade, and unless some other team offers us better by February 18th then this trade is a go-go for Glen Grunwald.

My only concern is that then we'd be bloated in the frontcourt. We would then have Robert Archibald, Lonny Baxter, Chris Bosh, Andrew DeClercq, Michael Bradley or Jerome Moiso (depending who gets traded), Juwan Howard, and Donyell Marshall.

With so many bodies up in the frontcourt, whom does Kevin play? Who gets in the new rotation? Who stays out?

We could start Howard and Marshall, and then bench Bosh to give him more time to develop without injuries. Or we could sit Alvin Williams down, move Vince back to the off-guard, move Donyell to the small forward, and have a starting lineup of Bosh, Howard, Marshall, Carter, and Rose.

This would be another major improvement if it can be done.

Glen Grunwald go burn the phone lines; we might have something special here.
 

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In the off-season I thought Howard could play C in the weak East. I have been proven wrong about that.

His offense is fine. Good low post scorer. But his D is just lousy inside.

Orlando is one of the softest interior D teams in the league.

Combine that with his age, 31 in Feb, and the length of the deal which takes him to 36 in the final year and the trade is not great.

We should not give up a first round pick. We need a good draft in the next few years or we are in trouble down the road.

If anything Orlando should be giving us a draft pick for taking this big contract from them and giving them more cap relief with Montross.

Howards production should continue in the 15/7 to 18/8 range the next year or two and 7 million in the final year is much better than what we had AD at this year at the same age. But AD was a fighter until this year.

I would do the trade without giving up a draft choice or MoP/MasonJr even though I question the heart of Howard. He is a low post scorer and there are not many out there.
 

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Also keep in mind Howard's skills and value is going downhill... by the time his contract finishes he'll probably be a full time IR guy...
 

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the last thing we need is a big man with no defense.

i vote nay on this trade.
 
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