[Showtyme]

It's a tangent from another thread.

I think Kirk Hinrich is a better point guard than Tony Parker. Here's how it breaks down for me:

Parker:
- CRAZY speed... as fast as Iverson sometimes, it looks like. He loves taking it coast-to-coast, but like AI, he can get started in the half-court. He's way up there with Marbury, TJ Ford, Chris Paul in terms of just how crazy fast he is.

- Scores. As a result, he's found an ability to score a ton of points by tearing up the half-court and using Duncan and other players to get himself buckets. 19.2 ppg compared to Kirk's 15.7.

Hinrich:
- Stingy defense. Kirk has been commented on by many coaches in the league as one of the best man defenders playing the game. I don't have the stats to back it up, but night in and night out he's trying to shut down the other team's best player, often times disadvantaged by 2-5 inches.

- Hot range. The guy is quietly averaging 37% from the arc, just a shade below his career average. Parker rarely shoots from the arc and is averaging 23.1% from three this season.

- Makes teammates better. He does tend to overdribble and dominate the ball, but that's gotten a lot better. He makes good plays for others on his team; 6.3 assists per game on 2.4 turnovers is a pretty strong ratio. Of players averaging more assists than him (19), only six players have a lower A/TO ratio. He controls the ball fairly well and is a true floor general at times. Parker averages 5.8 apg but 3.08 TO, for a much worse ratio.

- Very strong FT%. 84% from the stripe, in the top 25 in the league, compared to Parker's 69.7%, good for 111th in the league. Every 100 free throws, Hinrich is scoring 14 more points than Tony.

If I'm a GM, I see that Hinrich has consistently outperformed Parker in tougher circumstances, and has always played more in control than Parker. It's fairly close, as Parker might become a prolific scorer, but I think that I'd take Kirk over Tony if what I'm looking for is a solid point guard for my team.

 

[TripleDouble]

I think Parker is better. He's more dominant.

 

[yodurk]

I see Hinrich as the more complete player, hands down. Parker can be jaw-dropping at times with how he gets to the hoop with blinding speed, but he really doesn't have much of a jumper (he was leading the NBA in points in the paint for a while, and his 50%+ FG shooting pretty much all comes from drives). He also is pretty average defensively, whereas Hinrich is well above average defensively. There's also the whole matter of playing with Duncan...it's hard to prove since Parker's never been without Duncan, but I think Parker's insane production has been a by-product of this. If you put Hinrich as the Spurs' starting PG, I think you'd see a pretty insane player as well. But again, hard to prove...just my opinion.

 

[Darius Miles Davis]

Oh god, not again...

Paging Vincent Vega! Paging Vincent Vega!

 

[ScottMay]

To paraphrase the Robert Stack character in "Airplane," you picked a bad year to make this comparison.

Parker yields a 14.2 PER to his defensive assignment this year; Hinrich 13.5 . Parker is, in fact, playing excellent defense this season.

In terms of offensive output, it's Parker in a rout. Parker is among the league leaders in eFG% (a ridiculous .552), which more than offsets Hinrich's superiority in three-point shooting. Parker gets to the line far more often, so despite a pronounced disparity in percentage, he's made 32 more free throws than Hinrich this year. Parker produces a 22.4 PER to Hinrich's 16.5, and is among the league leaders in net on-off (Hinrich, on the other hand, has a -2.5 net plus-minus).

Obviously Parker benefits to a degree from having two phenomenal teammates in Duncan and Ginobili. But both are having injury-plagued seasons -- Ginobili hasn't been available for nearly half of the games, and Duncan isn't his usual dominant self. Parker is probably their MVP (and IIRC, they've all said as much at one point this year or another).

I don't disagree that Hinrich would probably put up better numbers playing with Duncan and Ginobili. But I'm not sure he's a better fit for them than Parker is. The Spurs really rely on Parker's unparalled ability to push the ball, and he is much better at attacking the basket than Hinrich is. Conversely, I think that given Parker's blazing quickness and craftiness around the basket, it's foolish to automatically assume he'd do worse if put in Hinrich's shoes.

I'm not a huge Parker fan by any stretch, but let's give the guy some credit. He was an All-Star and he's going to get a lot of votes for the All-NBA team.

 

[johnston797]

In addition to ScottMay's excellent analysis, Parker is younger and already playoff tested.

Seems fairly clear-cut to me.

 

[step]

Parker yields a 14.2 PER to his defensive assignment this year; Hinrich 13.5 .

If Hinrich were allowed to be a point guard on both ends of the court, I have no doubt his numbers would be better. But having to guard the opposing 2's for most of the time is taking its toll in my view.

In the end I do agree with your post.

 

[epic]

if the spurs offered a straight up trade, which they wouldn't, but anyway, offering parker for hinrich, i would be ALL over it.

 

[such sweet thunder]

if the spurs offered a straight up trade, which they wouldn't, but anyway, offering parker for hinrich, i would be ALL over it.

Like white on rice. I drool when I think of how much a player like Parker could add to the Bulls through his slashing and ability to get to the line.

 

[Rhyder]

I think it depends on team needs more than anything.

Design your offense around a low post player and Parker's definately the better fit. On a team without a star type wing that commands the ball, Parker would be the better fit.

On a team with a slashing star SG or SF, Hinrich would probably be the better fit ala Celtics, Nets, Lakers, etc... Hinrich would also probably be better on a really good team that is close to being a contender (Dallas or Sactown the past few seasons or Houston this year, injuries aside).

On the Bulls, I think Hinrich is actually the better fit, but only because Parker would make our backcourt even smaller.

 

[superdave]

Parker is shooting a ridic 55%. When is the last time a PG came anywhere close to that?

 

[Rhyder]

Parker is shooting a ridic 55%. When is the last time a PG came anywhere close to that?

If 50% is close, Nash did it last year and is shooting 51% this season.

If that doesn't count, Stockton would be my guess. Parker is as close to Stockton as Hinrich is IMO.

 

[mayor89]

hahahhaahahahahahahahaha

You must be joking right?

Kirk Hinrich cant dream of becoming the player that Tony parker is now. The guys is insane and the second best pg in the nba behind nash. A while ago he was leading the league in points in the paint while kirk couldnt hit the pacific ocean.

 

[dsouljah9]

And Tony Parker's girlfriend is hotter :yes:

 

[Electric Slim]

To paraphrase the Robert Stack character in "Airplane," you picked a bad year to make this comparison.

Don't you mean Llyod Bridges? I can hear Tom B#1 clearing his throat.

 

[spongyfungy]

Parker is the better penetrator in the lane. I think his points in the paint vs. jumpshot ratio is ridiculous.

Parker lead the NBA in scoring in the paint by averaging 13.2 points in the lane. (until Dwayne took over)

 

[Da Grinch]

If Hinrich were allowed to be a point guard on both ends of the court, I have no doubt his numbers would be better. But having to guard the opposing 2's for most of the time is taking its toll in my view.

In the end I do agree with your post.

actually at pg kirk's defensive per is worse than parker's at 14.4...and according to 82games.com and he plays over 40% of his time there.

kirk may just not be the pg defender parker is.

 

[step]

actually at pg kirk's defensive per is worse than parker's at 14.4...and according to 82games.com and he plays over 40% of his time there.

So over half the time he's guarding 2's...

 

[Darius Miles Davis]

Parker is shooting a ridic 55%. When is the last time a PG came anywhere close to that?

Yes, and I would take Parker over Hinrich. Tony's not a perfect player, and he's not as well-rounded as Kirk, but he's exceptional at a few things (speed, penetration), and we have very little on the Bulls in terms of exceptional skills.

Superdave, since you mention Parker's shooting percentage, I should mention that currently, Hinrich's shooting percentage is up a full three percentage points over last year (42.7% as opposed to 39.7%). There's no way to classify that as anything but substantial improvement. Poor shooting percentage was easily my biggest knock on Kirk last year. Next in line were lack of clutchness and trouble finishing at the rim. Kirk has hit some big clutch shots this year, although he's still not an efficient penetrator. But all in all, I'm quite pleased with his progress. He is genuinely improving each year, and perhaps his shooting percentage will continue to rise.

 

[Darius Miles Davis]

Parker is shooting a ridic 55%. When is the last time a PG came anywhere close to that?

Yes, and I would take Parker over Hinrich. Tony's not a perfect player, and he's not as well-rounded as Kirk, but he's exceptional at a few things (speed, penetration), and we have very little on the Bulls in terms of exceptional skills.

Superdave, since you mention Parker's shooting percentage, I should mention that currently, Hinrich's shooting percentage is up a full three percentage points over last year (42.7% as opposed to 39.7%). There's no way to classify that as anything but substantial improvement. Poor shooting percentage was easily my biggest knock on Kirk last year. Next in line were lack of clutchness and trouble finishing at the rim. Kirk has hit some big clutch shots this year, although he's still not an efficient penetrator. But all in all, I'm quite pleased with his progress. He is genuinely improving each year, and perhaps his shooting percentage will continue to rise in subsequent seasons.