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Discussion Starter #1
Not so much about KMart, but his contract situation. 3

With each passing injury, which he has had a few of this year, Thorn and company are looking smarter and smarter passing.

6 years of that, with potentially each year getting worse and worse?

Personally... I say no thanks.

Let the Nuggets and Cpawfan keep him!!!

-Petey
 

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The Nuggets and I are very happy to have him. Quality front court depth is needed to advance in the Western Conference Playoffs. The Nuggets have the luxury of allowing both Kenyon and Camby to have time to heal during the regular season.

Kenyon has played 61 out of 68 games this season, so he will easily play more than he did last season.
 

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Food for thought

"When they lost Kenyon Martin, they lost their enforcer and their best defender on the back line," said the Timberwolves' Sam Cassell, after torching the Nets for 23 points in 22 minutes off the bench. "They're not the same without him."

Cassell well remembers the Nets teams that advanced to play the Lakers and Spurs for the championship, having been eliminated by New Jersey when he played for the Bucks in 2003.

"They don't have that guy on the back line anymore who can make up for their mistakes, who can help you out if you get beat," Cassell said. "You can't replace a Kenyon Martin. But you can replace Kerry Kittles."
Kenyon may have been to expensive for the Nets, but how much is going to cost to replace him?
 

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Petey said:
Not so much about KMart, but his contract situation. 3

With each passing injury, which he has had a few of this year, Thorn and company are looking smarter and smarter passing.

6 years of that, with potentially each year getting worse and worse?

Personally... I say no thanks.

Let the Nuggets and Cpawfan keep him!!!

-Petey
He doesn't worth the maximum, but most of the players doesnt worth their contracts (Randolph, Houston, Mutombo, Marbury, Walker, Webber, Rose, Grant, Kittles and many others). Infact, I don't really think that Kidd worth his big contract too because of his age, but that's reasonable for the best PG in the NBA. RJ's contract might be too expensive too (though I like him for not asking for the maximum) when I compare him to Ginobili and Maggette. IMO, getting your team into a good financial situation (in term of the CBA) and signing players for good contracts is a very imprtant part of winning the title, since you have more options to improve every summer. Look at Detroit and how Dumars had most of his players into great contracts (for the Pistons of course). Here's a list of some very good contracts i woudn't mind having:
Andre Miller
Hamilton
Billups
Ben Wallace
Mike James
Sura
Tinsley
Artest
Maggette
Mihm
Jumaine Jones
Posey
Battier (his new contract)
Redd
Maurice Williams
Cassell
Marc Jackson
Nash
Jimmy Jackson
Przybbilla
Peja
Ginobili
Mohammed
Barry
Bowen
Devin Brown
Lewis
Marshall
Bell

You can clearly see that the Spurs and the Pistons has the most good contracts. And Guess what? they're the leading candidates to the championship along with Miami. Miami is a candidate inspite of having Shaq's contract who eat all the cap because they are lucky to have Wade's rookie contract.
 

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cpawfan said:
Food for thought



Kenyon may have been to expensive for the Nets, but how much is going to cost to replace him?
We can't replace him, simply because there isn't anything close to him on free agency and we can't rely on Taft, Boone or Vazquez to be the next Kenyon. We can do our best, which is signing Marshall/SAR and drafting a defensive PF. Other than that, we need to try to strengthen our bench by adding another SG/SF to backup Jefferson and Carter (Raja Bell and Devin Brown are both FA who aren't too expensive), and I would make a run at Eric Williams too (we can offer them a TE to clear salaries). Vaughn and Best were decent and we can keep them as backups to Kidd. Marshall will make our rebounding problem much smaller, but if we could add someone like Gadzuric (well it's getting expensive) through a S&T I think we'll be set to compete for the championship.
 

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Get over it.

I would be happy to have him for this year too, but I would not be happy to have him at age 34, making $17 million, after many more episodes of knee tendonitis, chest contusions and just plain decline in athleticism. The decision wasn't about one year for $11 million; it was about seven years for $92.5 million.

It's a damn sight easier replacing an "enforcer" than it is finding Vince Carter.
KMart got his money. We got Vince Carter. And if we had Richard Jefferson and a bench, Sammy wouldn't be crowing.
 

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NetIncome said:
Get over it.

I would be happy to have him for this year too, but I would not be happy to have him at age 34, making $17 million, after many more episodes of knee tendonitis, chest contusions and just plain decline in athleticism. The decision wasn't about one year for $11 million; it was about seven years for $92.5 million.

It's a damn sight easier replacing an "enforcer" than it is finding Vince Carter.
KMart got his money. We got Vince Carter. And if we had Richard Jefferson and a bench, Sammy wouldn't be crowing.
Of course we need a bench, but don't you think that a PF is more important?
Overall, I think that Vaughn and Best did a nice job (though not a great job) of being backup PG's. On the other hand, VC and RJ simply has not backups. Devin Brown and Eric Williams will do it perfectly, and both aren't too expensive. Marshall+lottery pick may be enough for the 4 spot, but I really think that Collins has an awfull contract and I rather have Cliff and Gadzuric has backups. With this roster, I can see us as championship contenders and I really think that we can do all these moves:
PG: Kidd, Vaughn, Best
SG: Carter, Brown/Bell/Kittles, Planinic
SF: Jefferson, Eric Williams
PF: Marshall/Swift, Williams/Boone/Taft/Vazquez
C: Krstic, Gadzuric, Robinson/other defensive specialist
 

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X-JAY said:
Of course we need a bench, but don't you think that a PF is more important?
Overall, I think that Vaughn and Best did a nice job (though not a great job) of being backup PG's. On the other hand, VC and RJ simply has not backups. Devin Brown and Eric Williams will do it perfectly, and both aren't too expensive. Marshall+lottery pick may be enough for the 4 spot, but I really think that Collins has an awfull contract and I rather have Cliff and Gadzuric has backups. With this roster, I can see us as championship contenders and I really think that we can do all these moves:
PG: Kidd, Vaughn, Best
SG: Carter, Brown/Bell/Kittles, Planinic
SF: Jefferson, Eric Williams
PF: Marshall/Swift, Williams/Boone/Taft/Vazquez
C: Krstic, Gadzuric, Robinson/other defensive specialist
Remember, there are other teams in the league. The Nets can't just get whoever the heck they want. You have to share. I agree that if that was their roster they would have a pretty good team, though. But I doubt they pick up any more than one or two of those guys, possibly none.
 

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I know, I just think that the Nets has the tools to get them.

Marshall/SAR- The Nets are their best option, you can check it if you want (considering that most of the teams has a PF)

Eric Williams- Only the Nets, GS and the Lakers (if combining a few TE is
possible) can offer Toronto a TE for Eric Williams. The Lakers are LOADED with SF's. Goldan State are loaded too with Richardson, Pietrus, Cheaney, White and Dunleavy.

Vaughn- we have a team option.

Devin Brown/Raja Bell/Other backup SG- I don't know what makes the Nets so special, but I'll check what are our chances of getting them vs other teams. Im sure we have good chances.

Gadzuric- Same.
 

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NetIncome said:
Get over it.

I would be happy to have him for this year too, but I would not be happy to have him at age 34, making $17 million, after many more episodes of knee tendonitis, chest contusions and just plain decline in athleticism. The decision wasn't about one year for $11 million; it was about seven years for $92.5 million.

It's a damn sight easier replacing an "enforcer" than it is finding Vince Carter.
KMart got his money. We got Vince Carter. And if we had Richard Jefferson and a bench, Sammy wouldn't be crowing.
The decision on Kenyon was made by the former investors from Goldman Sachs. It wasn't a basketball decision at all. Thorn did what he could to at least get something out of the deal. If the Goldman Sachs guys weren't in the picture this summer, Kenyon would most likely be a Net.

Replacing an "enforcer" that Sammy is talking about isn't that easy. How many players in the NBA are there that can be on the back line, who can make up for others mistakes and can help out his teammates if they get beat?

I do agree that it would be difficult to find another player that is the national draw that Vince is.
 

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Petey, quite frankly, I'm surprised at a post of this nature. I thought you knew more about the Nets! Perhaps you're just trying to increase your points or something by starting a controversial thread that you know will have alot of responses... :p

So I will help you out by posting my retort...

As I've said time and time again, the Nets from 01-02, 02-03, and 03-04 were greater than the sum of their parts. In fact, last season, if Kidd had taken some time off and not made his knee worse, we could have beaten Detroit. And hindsight tells us that the Lakers were really not so tough last year.

But this is about KMart. He was definitely the glue for the team. We've all talked about his intensity and leadership ad naseum. But it's been repeated for a reason: because it's true. The chemistry those teams had is practically irreplacable. Look at the Wolves this year...practically the same personnel but the chemistry is gone. So how do you expect to have chemsitry by CHANGING the personnel?

In my opinion, Kittles, Harris, and Train also played significant roles in the chemistry. I've never met someone who doesn't love Train. 'Nuff said. Kittles and Harris were the longest term Nets and they appreciated this success the most. I'm sure it rubbed off on the rest of the players.

Mutumbo is a great example about chemistry. He's still a pretty good player...he's definitely contributing in Houston. But he wasn't right for us. As for Zo, we can't really blame Thorn on that one either since we assume he did it to keep Kidd happy.

Finally, from what I read on this board, we COULD HAVE signed KMart for less than the maximum when he wanted a new contract before his last season (and before he became an All Star). I'm not sure if Ratner had the purse strings at that point but if we got him then, we would be one Elden Campbell, Etan Thomas, or Jahidi White away from a championship instead of a higher priced Swift, Marshall, Curry, or SAR away.
 
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To tell you the truth... I'm kind of glad we didn't sign him to a max deal.

Even when we had KMart my mind kept on going back to that we might sign a 18/9 player to a max deal who has never effectively scored in the low post and gets a lot of his points by running the floor and getting alley oops.

I never thought he was worth the max or he deserved that much because he's not that type of player and I still feel that way.

At the time when we didn't sign him I was mad, annoyed... I was pissed and thought we should of signed him but after a while I was okay with it because I felt it was a smart basketball move..... the bottom line was that KMart wasn't a max player.

The Nuggets and such are happy with him and they should be because he's a great hustle and energy player but I wonder if the GM knows he's paying max dollars to a 15/8 hustle/energy player who can't on a consistent basis score in the low post. Bottom line is that I just don't think he's worth 92 million.... more likely he's worth about 60 million dollars. Something less than Carlos Boozer... he's been a 19/10 player this year and he's making around 68 million. But the difference between those is that Boozer can score in the low post and in a half court setting in a consistent basis.

I can't say I'm happy with KMart gone, but I'm not saying I'm sad without him... because all in all, IMO it was a smart basketball move. Why pay a player what he's not worth?
 

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cpawfan said:
Food for thought



Kenyon may have been to expensive for the Nets, but how much is going to cost to replace him?
Im suprised that Cassell said that after he threw the ball at K-Mart because K-Mart pushed him (he was upset after Cassell fouled Boykins).
 

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Very touchy situation

I loved K-Mart and I wanted to keep him. After all, he was our down low defender...he was the enforcer, the emotional leader. He was exciting and he played a huge part on the defensive side of things. On offense, he was a lil erractic but his 18/9/2 potential was good enough considering he was a defensive player. I wish he was here though...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
cpawfan said:
Kenyon has played 61 out of 68 games this season, so he will easily play more than he did last season.
Statements like that would worry me about him getting a near max deal on a team I root for.

-Petey
 

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Petey said:
Statements like that would worry me about him getting a near max deal on a team I root for.

-Petey
Why? Injuries are part of the game. If a player goes on the IL, he automatically misses 5 games. Kenyon hasn't gone on the IL this season. Last season he had a problem that required him to miss almost 20 games. That hasn't been the case this season.
 

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TataFry said:
Something less than Carlos Boozer... he's been a 19/10 player this year and he's making around 68 million. But the difference between those is that Boozer can score in the low post and in a half court setting in a consistent basis.
Defense is a part of the game and that is something that Boozer doesn't play. Additionally, Boozer has only played 51 games and is still on the IL. Boozers stats are 17.8 PPG & 9 RPG and those are still inflated by his early season success when paired with AK-47. It took a player as great as AK-47 to make Boozer look that good. If you look at the 21 games Boozer played in January and February, Boozer is averaging 14.4 PPG & 7.95 RPG.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
furnace said:
Petey, quite frankly, I'm surprised at a post of this nature. I thought you knew more about the Nets! Perhaps you're just trying to increase your points or something by starting a controversial thread that you know will have alot of responses... :p
Maybe, but I do know I'd rather have Carter than Martin. I would trade KMart and Kittles every day of the week for Carter and Krstic. I think not having RJ for this stretch, trading for Carter midseason, and losing Kidd in the beginning hurt us more than the lose of KMart.

furnace said:
So I will help you out by posting my retort...

As I've said time and time again, the Nets from 01-02, 02-03, and 03-04 were greater than the sum of their parts. In fact, last season, if Kidd had taken some time off and not made his knee worse, we could have beaten Detroit. And hindsight tells us that the Lakers were really not so tough last year.

But this is about KMart. He was definitely the glue for the team. We've all talked about his intensity and leadership ad naseum. But it's been repeated for a reason: because it's true. The chemistry those teams had is practically irreplacable. Look at the Wolves this year...practically the same personnel but the chemistry is gone. So how do you expect to have chemsitry by CHANGING the personnel?

In my opinion, Kittles, Harris, and Train also played significant roles in the chemistry. I've never met someone who doesn't love Train. 'Nuff said. Kittles and Harris were the longest term Nets and they appreciated this success the most. I'm sure it rubbed off on the rest of the players.

Mutumbo is a great example about chemistry. He's still a pretty good player...he's definitely contributing in Houston. But he wasn't right for us. As for Zo, we can't really blame Thorn on that one either since we assume he did it to keep Kidd happy.

Finally, from what I read on this board, we COULD HAVE signed KMart for less than the maximum when he wanted a new contract before his last season (and before he became an All Star). I'm not sure if Ratner had the purse strings at that point but if we got him then, we would be one Elden Campbell, Etan Thomas, or Jahidi White away from a championship instead of a higher priced Swift, Marshall, Curry, or SAR away.
With KMart no Carter... or that is how I see it. Carter is a top 15 player, KMart is not a top 50 player. I'd rather build around talent then Chemistry, all the other players you mentioned, I think Thorn can find guys to blend with this crew.

-Petey
 

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Petey said:
Maybe, but I do know I'd rather have Carter than Martin. I would trade KMart and Kittles every day of the week for Carter and Krstic. I think not having RJ for this stretch, trading for Carter midseason, and losing Kidd in the beginning hurt us more than the lose of KMart.

-Petey
It is really silly to look at it as a trade of Kenyon and Kittles for Carter and Krstic. Krstic was already in the plans for the 04-05 season. Krstic was the starting center the previous 2 Nets teams had been missing.
 
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