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We Warriors
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Who will be better, the Knicks or the Nets?

Brooklyn is the top dogs in New York in 2012-13. The stats like Brooklyn.
The stats don’t love Amare Stoudemire, they like Humphries better. Knicks rely on the fast break of bench Marcus Camby, Kurt Thomas, Baron Davis and Jason Kidd.

The Nets have the best player in Williams, a deep roster and higher upside next season with Teletovic and Lopez.

New York was a No. 7-seed last season, but now that Jeremy Lin is in Houston and Fields is in Canada, there’s not much youth on the Knicks to help bring them to the next level.

Williams is the best player on either team — before you start saying Carmelo Anthony, who scores a lot of points but takes a lot of shots to do it, he takes a lot of contested jumpers.
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Look at your favorite team, now back to mine, mine
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Kobe also takes a lot of shots, a lot of them contested jumpers. So did Jordan. So going by your logic Williams is a better player then both Kobe and Jordan.

In all seroiusness though, I still think Carmelo's the better player of the two, but if you're going to make an argument that Williams is better (which I do think is arguable), at least point out Melo's lack of defensive abilities or something. Pointing out that he takes a lot of uncontested jumpers won't really prove anything. Carmelo's still a better offensive player in every way possible than Williams is.
 

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**** the clippers
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Brooklyn, but both are pretty overrated at the moment. I'm not sure the Knicks will even make the playoffs, I can easily see them imploding and winning 30 or something.
 

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Wiltside
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Gotta go Knicks until I see these Nets do anything. They're getting Lopez back and adding Joe Johnson, but after last season I need to see it work out before I say they're better than anyone not named Charlotte. Knicks get the edge because of chemistry for now.
 

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Nets and I don't exactly think it's close either.
 

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We Warriors
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Discussion Starter #7
Brooklyn, but both are pretty overrated at the moment. I'm not sure the Knicks will even make the playoffs, I can easily see them imploding and winning 30 or something.
Amare and Baron Davis are likely to miss 120 games. I am not high on those 39 years old players. I still believe that Knicks can win 37 to 39 wins, which can easily make the playoffs.
 

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X-Mas Taker
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i think the knicks and nets are 50 win teams, with the knicks being better defensively and the nets being a premier offensive team.

that division is stacked now 4 teams that have 50 win talent.
 

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We Warriors
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Discussion Starter #9
Nets are the 17th best team in the nba. Knicks are 18th best!

They are so good because they are in the east. Bad playoff team like Griz would easily sweep them out.
 

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Pointing out that he takes a lot of uncontested jumpers won't really prove anything. Carmelo's still a better offensive player in every way possible than Williams is.
It's 'contested' jumpers.

And do passes resulting in assists count as offense?
 

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Amare and Baron Davis are likely to miss 120 games. I am not high on those 39 years old players. I still believe that Knicks can win 37 to 39 wins, which can easily make the playoffs.
Davis isn't playing this season.
The knicks should push for a 4 seed, nets maybe a 7 or 8.
Melo is a far better player than devon williams
 

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Come At Me Bro
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Deron is the best player on either team. It's weird that while the Nets have new parts this offseason, I'm more worried about the Knicks having chemistry issues.
 

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Deron is the best player on either team. It's weird that while the Nets have new parts this offseason, I'm more worried about the Knicks having chemistry issues.
Me, too. I see the Nets as the 3rd best team and the Knicks as the 5th best team in the East on paper. Chemistry problems and injuries will alter things from there.
 

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Wow. I haven't posted in here in a very long time...Anyhow, I figured to jump in here since there is a huge misunderstanding and misconception all around. First off, I'm a Brooklyn native and Nets fan.

Ready for some B-ball stats? Lets go:

In terms of Melo vs Williams: It's even. They both have the same PER basically, they both played a scoring role and passing role for both of their teams. Melo gave up 104 points last season per 100 possessions which is average individual defense. Williams gave up 110 points per 100 possessions which is bad defense.

Williams shoots 44% off jumpshots assisted 43% of the time. Melo shot 41% off jumpshots were assisted 37%. So, Williams takes more within the flow shots, Melo takes more isolation shots which is no surprise since that's what he does but it doesn't make him a bad player. His weakness is not taking enough off the curl shots.

Also, there is no way the Knicks won't make the playoffs. That's just wishful thinking because the Knicks without Melo/Amare would make the playoffs, if Melo/Amare get their game going and stay healthy they will easily compete for the Top Top 3 records in the East.

The Knicks were 5th in defense last season, 12th in defense rebounds percentage and 2nd in the Atlantic and 3 games behind the 4th seeded Celtics and 6th seeded Magic with a inconsistent supporting cast, injury rattled roster and dysfunctional season.

This year they upgraded their defense and rebounding by adding Camby who is still an elite rebounder and defender, Jason Kidd who is still a solid defensive player, Ronnie Brewer who is elite defensively at his position, Kurt Thomas who still defends and rebounds as well as any young guy in the league.

Then they add a low turnover percentage group of PGs in Felton, Kidd and Prigoni. The Knicks were the league leaders in turnovers last season, Jeremy Lin in 35 games averaged 3.6 turnovers and 6 turnovers per game during Linsanity. Felton, Kidd, Prigoni are not only pick and roll guards (Amare's strength) but they are low turnover percentage guards.

They also re-signed the best 3 point shooter last season in Steve Novak who makes Ryan Anderson look like a scrub statistically from a shooting standpoint. They added James White who has turned into a solid defender and passer at 6'8.

Their roster has every weapon in the game and they can be a Top 3 team with 50+ wins if they play to their potential and they have a roster spot open for another quality piece.

When fully healthy, teams will have to deal with this:
Felton/Kidd/Prigoni
Shumpert/JR/White
Melo/Brewer/Novak
Amare/?
Chandler/Camby/Thomas

That's a 14 man roster of three lethal scorers, multiple perimeter defenders, one sharpshooter, multiple pick and roll guards, Defensive Player Of The Year Center, two defensive/rebounding big men.

Not to mention, Mike Woodson's record with the Knicks at 18-6 shows his coaching philosophy rubbed off compared to D'antoni's 18-24 record.

On the other hand, we have the Nets:

Deron and Joe Johnson is going to be a great combo considering their style of play is pretty damn identical. Wallace fits next to Johnson, Johnson fits next to Wallace, Humphries. Their starting lineup is very well balanced.

Last season Deron averaged 20ppg & 8 assists on a bad team. Joe averaged 18ppg on a Hawkes team missing Horford and still a Top 5 team. Wallace averaged 15ppg, 6 rebounds with Portland, he averaged 38% from 3 which a career high.

So, I'm expecting to see a 3rd seed, 4th seed out of both teams.
 

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Last Winter Was The Coldest
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Great post. I also think both teams are really good (Knicks fan here, but not gonna hate on hometown BK)

Both teams have pretty good depth and should be competing for high seeds in the Eastern Conference this season. If I had to pick one team right now it would be New York only because they're a bit more proven and the other reasons you stated as well. A lot of people think the Nets are still gonna suck just thinking they've only added Joe Johnson, but their team was pretty banged up the last few seasons and their starting five now all look like they would complement each other on both offense and defense. The Nets look pretty good and deep on paper and I think it'll translate on to the court.

Gonna be exciting for New Yorkers and Nets/Knicks fans all around this season hopefully.
 

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Also, let's put things into a different perspective:

The Knicks were the 7th seed but were 3rd in regular season wins against playoff teams. They beat Indiana 3-1, Orlando 3-1, Philly 2-1, , tied with Boston 2-2. The only teams they couldn't beat consistently were the Bulls (1-3) and Miami (0-3).

Now, they were only 3 games back of the Atlantic Division crown last year. Boston held on during the last stretch of the season. Now, if the Knicks ended up as the 4th seed and Boston as the 7th seed, the Celtics face Miami in the first round while the Knicks face Atlanta and Philly in rounds 1 and 2. We could have seen a NY vs Miami ECF matchup instead of Boston/Miami and that's all because the Knicks came up short in the regular season.

There is a difference to a 7th seed that's inept compared to a 7th seed that should have been a 4th seed due to the closeness of the Eastern Conference standings.

If the Magic had Howard against Indiana and the Magic beat the Pacers in the first round, is everyone still high on them? No, they then earn less respect. Do the Sixers get the attention they are getting now if Rose didn't get hurt and they lost in the first round rather than second?

So, you have to look at every angle of what last year provided to use as a carry over into this season.

In terms of the Nets, they were 22-44 with only 5 games of Brook Lopez and 15 games of Gerald Wallace.

I personally see this Nets team as a Eastern Conference version of last year's Clippers:

-Paul & Billups were their dual backcourt much like Deron/Joe will be.

-Butler was their defender/knock down jumpshooter much like Wallace's role for the Nets.

-Griffin was their young piece for the future benefiting from playing with a Top 5 PG but not considered a good defender much like Brook Lopez.

-The Clippers had Mo Williams as their Sixth man much like Marshon Brooks

-The Clippers had Reggie Evans as their great defender/rebounder much like his role will be for the Nets.

-Teletovic is a 6'9 scoring Power Forward. Best scorer in Europe. He's probably going to be used similar to what Brian Cook brought to the Clippers, difference is...he's way better.

Then, there is Blatche and Childress, Bogans who will provide depth as well. Chemistry will be key but if the Clippers with a undersized backcourt and undersized bench could rack up a 5th seed. The Nets should be a 3rd seed for sure.
 

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Better Call Saul
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I think they Nets will have a better record next year. New York still hasn't shown me anything substantial other than a hot month every year.

And Deron Williams is pretty easily the best player on either squad.

And I like Carmelo.
 
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