[Ron]

Just read this story on ESPN...how reasonable does this sound, anyway?

Lakers preparing to reload with some Woods?

 

[Shaqs big toe]

Wonderful addition if he is still available or if they move for him. In a couple of years, I picture him as a star

 

[Wilt_The_Stilt]

I don't really want to give up Horry or Fox for an unproven player ..but the look what happened when we traded Vlade for Kobe..Superstar!

 

[Chops]

This is a complete pipe dream...

What do the Lakers have to offer in order to trade up? Fox? :laugh:

Guys like Fox and Horry don't really have any value to other NBA teams. Phil Jackson just gets what he can out of them. Besides they are just a product of Shaquille O'Neal, just like Kobe....

 

[SikHandlez24]

They could give up McCoy, Hunter, and one of Jackson's rings for Woods.

 

[Jamel Irief]

Originally posted by KiDcRaWfOrD
This is a complete pipe dream...

What do the Lakers have to offer in order to trade up? Fox? :laugh:

Guys like Fox and Horry don't really have any value to other NBA teams. Phil Jackson just gets what he can out of them. Besides they are just a product of Shaquille O'Neal, just like Kobe....

Well considering Fox outplayed the Turkish starting small forward for the Kings in the WCF I have a feeling some team would want him. And what title contender wouldn't want to have Robert Horry? Even if you aren't a title contender there is no denying that he's one of the best backup forwards in the league.

I wouldn't want to see the Lakers trade Horry for anyone, but mainly for sentimental reasons.

You're last comment really shows how objective you are on the subject I guess the Lakers don't need Woods, they can draft any scrub and Shaq will turn them into an all-star.

 

[Chops]

Dude, what is your problem? You really like to twist my words. Where did I say Shaq can take a scrub and turn him into an all-star? Where?

Yeah, Kobe is a superstar. So was Penny Hardaway...

Fox is a veteran who has been in crucial games. Turkoglu is a 2nd year kid playing there for the first time. One could argue that Fox hardly outplayed him. Look at the numbers...

Where did I say that no one wants Horry? Where? I said he has no trade value, which is true. If you can trick a GM into trading a top 15 pick for Robert Horry and a late first round pick, then more power to you. Keep the hope alive....

 

[RD]

It is a pipe dream to think you can obtain a lottery pick for anybody, or any package, of players on the team, aside from Shaq and Kobe.

Fox and Horry have value to teams cuz of their experience. They are very good role players.

But, that doesn't translate to having a great deal of trade value. They do not have the value, alone, or together, of a lottery pick.
And the Lakers do not have any picks high enough to package - They'll be picking after 25 every year that Shaq and Kobe play together, so that won't be a key part of a deal either.

The Lakers may really want to get Woods, but it won't happen.

 

[DP]

Originally posted by RD
They'll be picking after 25 every year that Shaq and Kobe play together

Nice problem for them to have, eh ?

 

[Jamel Irief]

Originally posted by KiDcRaWfOrD
Dude, what is your problem? You really like to twist my words. Where did I say Shaq can take a scrub and turn him into an all-star? Where?

Saying Kobe is a product of Shaq? I'm guessing you mean that Kobe is an all-star because of Shaq? As for Penny, injuries? Ask him yourself, he is a poster on this board. Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Glen Rice and Nick Anderson all saw their numbers go down playing alongside Shaq.

Fox is a veteran who has been in crucial games. Turkoglu is a 2nd year kid playing there for the first time. One could argue that Fox hardly outplayed him. Look at the numbers...

I suggest you do the same. According to the numbers Fox outplayed Turkeyglue in every game except games 3 and 4.

Where did I say that no one wants Horry? Where? I said he has no trade value, which is true. If you can trick a GM into trading a top 15 pick for Robert Horry and a late first round pick, then more power to you. Keep the hope alive....

No trade value= no one wants Horry right? If people wanted him he would have trade value. A lottery team has little use for him but any contender would love to have him. The bucks would eaisly trade their #13 pick for him but I wouldn't want to see the Lakers do it. Like I said I don't want to trade Robert so I "hope" he stays.

 

[Chops]

What is that old saying? When you assume....

Anyways, saying Kobe is a product of Shaq means that he gets a lot of things easier because of the big guy. If you want to deny the fact that Kobe gets wide open 17 footers because of Shaq's triple-teams then be my guest. As far as Penny, he was declining before the injuries even occured. Try again....


I said Fox may have outplayed Turkoglu. I admitted the fact. I also said that it was hardly the mismatch you make it out to be. Fox is the veteran, so he is expected to deliver in important games.


I think you are a bit confused about trade value. You see, trade value is the amount a team will give up to acquire a certain player. Horry and Fox have little to no trade value because teams are not going to give up anything for old role players that take 3's all day. They are also a product of Shaq... Yes, some teams may want to have Horry or Fox, but not at the price of a lotto pick. They have some value, in that they could be mentor's or bench players. However, they have zero trade value. Like I said, if you think you are gonna move up by using Horry and/or Fox as bait, then you are going to be very dissapointed. The Bucks would trade their #13 for Horry?? :laugh:

Keep dreaming....

 

[Prico]

Kobe being a product of Shaquille O'Neal is a ridiculous statement

Kobe Bryant would be an all-star on any NBA team, saying that he gets shots because of Shaquille O'Neal is ridiculous. Kobe Bryant is the very best at creating his own shot. I don't think anyone can argue that!

 

[Chops]

Ok, all of you guys are great at putting words in my mouth. Where did I say that Shaq makes Kobe an all-star? Find it? Oh yea, you can't.


Kobe can create his own shot, but not as good as McGrady or Paul Pierce. He isn't the best.

The whole Lakers team gets easy shots because of Shaq. I bet Kobe would even admit that Shaq makes his job much easier....

 

[DP]

Originally posted by KiDcRaWfOrD
Shaq makes his job much easier....

And vice versa. They make each other better.

 

[Jamel Irief]

Originally posted by KiDcRaWfOrD
What is that old saying? When you assume....

Anyways, saying Kobe is a product of Shaq means that he gets a lot of things easier because of the big guy. If you want to deny the fact that Kobe gets wide open 17 footers because of Shaq's triple-teams then be my guest. As far as Penny, he was declining before the injuries even occured. Try again....


I said Fox may have outplayed Turkoglu. I admitted the fact. I also said that it was hardly the mismatch you make it out to be. Fox is the veteran, so he is expected to deliver in important games.


I think you are a bit confused about trade value. You see, trade value is the amount a team will give up to acquire a certain player. Horry and Fox have little to no trade value because teams are not going to give up anything for old role players that take 3's all day. They are also a product of Shaq... Yes, some teams may want to have Horry or Fox, but not at the price of a lotto pick. They have some value, in that they could be mentor's or bench players. However, they have zero trade value. Like I said, if you think you are gonna move up by using Horry and/or Fox as bait, then you are going to be very dissapointed. The Bucks would trade their #13 for Horry?? :laugh:

Keep dreaming....

Please watch game 4 and tell me how many "wide open 17 footers" Kobe gets. I guess I'm in denial. If Shaq is being triple-teamed one of the defenders doing the triple teaming isn't Kobe's. Most likely it's Fisher's or Fox's man. Fox and Horry were also NBA starters long before they ever played with Shaq. Horry was the third leading scorer in the playoffs for the Rockets and Fox was the second leading scorer on the Celtics his last year there.

ZERO trade value means teams woudn't trade anything for that player. You did not say "little" trade value. Here is your direct quote so you can't accuse me of putting words in your mouth- "Where did I say that no one wants Horry? Where? I said he has no trade value, which is true." So I'm guessing the Lakers can't trade him to the Kings Chucky Brown? Translation- nobody wants Horry.

I'll dream about that lotto pick. You dream about a Kings title...

 

[Chops]

Dude, no trade value does not mean no one wants him. How can I explain that to you? No one will trade anything of VALUE to acquire Horry, do you get it? Or do I have to spell it out for you? There are teams that would like to have Horry, but again, they won't trade anything of VALUE. Thus, he has no trade value. Do you follow the concept yet?


You don't understand the concept of the triple-team. If Shaq is being triple teamed, that means Kobe cannot be doubled, get it? For a good offensive player, man-to-man means you are open, essentially. Get it? Kobe gets a lot more opportunities in man-to-man than players like McGrady or Iverson or Carter. Are you following the logic?

How many times do I have to say that I am a Bulls fan? Your snide remarks have no effect on me. They don't hurt. Sure, I would like to see the Kings win a title, but I will hardly go into depression if they fail...



DP, you are right. Having each other makes Shaq and Kobe better individually, but Kobe benefits more from having the most dominant player in the game on his side.

 

[Jamel Irief]

I would hardly call picks after number 10 "value" after that you're lucky if you draft a starter. Just look at previous drafts.

You don't understand the concept of the triple-team. If Shaq is being triple teamed, that means Kobe cannot be doubled, get it? For a good offensive player, man-to-man means you are open, essentially. Get it? Kobe gets a lot more opportunities in man-to-man than players like McGrady or Iverson or Carter. Are you following the logic?

Wait so "man-to-man" now equals "wide open 17 footers" I don't follow the logic.

 

[Chops]

Yes, man-to-man is very much like a wide-open 17 footer. Like I said, good offensive players can shoot over a single-team. Kobe gets more man-to-man opportunity. I think you are starting to get it... Your posts are starting to get smaller as I dismiss your points.


Now you are going to argue that draft picks after 10 are not value? Well if that is true, then why do teams keep drafting? Might as well just say screw it and forfeit the pick. Anyways, I wasn't just talking about draft picks. No one is going to trade a quality player or pick for Horry. The best you could hope for is a 2nd rounder.....

 

[Jamel Irief]

Yes my posts are getting smaller, but only because I realize I won't change your opinion. But when I see something new like wide open jumpers now also mean contested jumpers by only one defender or that the Lakers could only get a second rounder for Horry (meaning their #27 pick has more trade value than Horry) I feel like replying again. I mean we can sit here and argue about Robert Horry's trade value all day. It wasn't to long ago that he was traded for two all-star forwards in the same year (first Barkley, then Ceballos)

What do you call a true wide open jumper then? When no one is near you? Is that now know as a lay-up? Those were some nice wide open jumpers Kobe hit over Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles in the final minute last night eh?

 

[Chops]

Yes, your #27 pick does have more value than Horry.... I don't understand why that is a surprising comment.. Horry has no trade value. None. Forget about it...


How about I use an analogy so that you can get this through your skull. In the NFL, when a star receiver is single covered, he is considered wide open. In the NBA if Shaq is single covered, he is wide open. If Kobe Bryant is single covered he is wide open. I don't know how many easy shots Kobe has gotten because of Shaq. His defender tries to reach in, Shaq throws it out and Kobe has to shoot over a scrambling defender(single coverage). If you don't understand that, then you never will....

Horry was traded for all-stars, blah blah blah. How many years ago was that? How much older is Horry now? You don't often see teams trading lotto picks for a guy that averages 5ppg.