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Discussion Starter #1
Pacers recieve: Lamar Odom
Lakers recieve: Ron Artest...and other players...Fred Jones, Austin Croshere, Bender?


I know many Lakers fan might be oppossed to this trade. However, let's be rational here...as great as Lamar Odom is, we all know Kobe doesn't like to share the ball much....Lamar Odom needs the ball to be effective...can dominate when he plays aggressive....Artest dominates on the defensive end, meaning he always plays aggressive....Odom gets his points driving baseline...Artest gets his points by hustling and intimidating opposing players...now let's say Phil Jackson returns and wants to run the triangle again....who do u think would be a better Pippen?...remember Pippen wasn't known for his scoring...he was known for his defense...and Artest is that player...I think he has a similiar mentality like Kobe as far as being passionate about the game and working hard every night....and then maybe we can get other players in the mix like Freddy Jones...who can give us a spark off the bench...with a few trades we can get some legit players in the front court...and a more stable PG to run the offense..not to mention Ron Artest can play Point-Foward.

I think the keyword for next season is : DEFENSE

what does everyone else think?
 

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I would do this trade in a heartbeat.

Artest is better at every aspect of the game except rebounding.

But the Pacers would never do this, not even for just Artest alone.
 

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I think you've got it the other way around

You are seriously overestimating the value of Lamar Odom.

As much of a headache as Ron Artest is, there is no way he is going to the Lakers unless Indiana gets Odom+more. Indy has already had offers from a few bad teams trying to get a bargain.

So you can forget about getting more than one Pacer for Odom. It would have to be Odom and more for the reigning Defensive Player of the Year.
 

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I'd imagine the only way Indiana would trade Artest here is if we also took Austin Croshere's contract. I'd do it because Croshere's and Brian Grant's contracts both expire at the same time. It'd be something like:

L.A. Lakers trades: PF Lamar Odom (15.2 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.7 apg in 36.3 minutes)
Devean George (No games yet played in 2004/05)
L.A. Lakers receives: PF Austin Croshere (9.0 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.5 apg in 25.6 minutes)
SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +18.4 ppg, +1.5 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

Indiana trades: PF Austin Croshere (9.0 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.5 apg in 25.6 minutes)
SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)
Indiana receives: PF Lamar Odom (15.2 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.7 apg in 36.3 minutes)
Devean George (No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: -18.4 ppg, -1.5 rpg, and -0.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED
 

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Re: I think you've got it the other way around

Truth34 said:
You are seriously overestimating the value of Lamar Odom.

As much of a headache as Ron Artest is, there is no way he is going to the Lakers unless Indiana gets Odom+more. Indy has already had offers from a few bad teams trying to get a bargain.

So you can forget about getting more than one Pacer for Odom. It would have to be Odom and more for the reigning Defensive Player of the Year.
You can't argue that Ron's value is the same as before this season. I would love a player with his mentality on our team though. We could use some toughness on the defensive end. I'm not ready to give up on the Odom/Kobe tandem. With the right coach and offensive scheme, there is no doubt in my mind that the two could mesh very effectively. That's a big IF though. Bringing in Paul Silas won't accomplish that. I'm not even sure if Flip Saunders would. If anything, I would trade Caron + others for Artest, then move Odom for a combination of players we need. I say no to Odom for Artest, which pretty much means that Indy probably wouldn't make any sort of deal.
 

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Re: I think you've got it the other way around

Artest wants to be better than Odom does and he won't defer to Kobe. He and Kobe would push each other. Kobe doesn't have a mental equal on the team anymore and its hurting the club. Kobe was at its best when he and Shaq would hold each other accountable. Kobe played harder when Shaq made comments and so did Shaq when Kobe did. Artest would bring that to the table.

Odom is waay too nice and defers himself mentally to often. Kobe can be crtiqued by a teammate behind the scenes something I think Artest would do.
 

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This is a pipe dream but:

L.A. Lakers trades: SF Luke Walton (2.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.2 apg in 11.4 minutes)
SF Caron Butler (14.2 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.7 apg in 34.8 minutes)
Devean George (No games yet played in 2004/05)
L.A. Lakers receives: SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +7.8 ppg, -1.1 rpg, and +0.2 apg.

Indiana trades: SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)
Indiana receives: SF Luke Walton (2.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.2 apg in 11.4 minutes)
SF Caron Butler (14.2 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.7 apg in 34.8 minutes)
Devean George (No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: -7.8 ppg, +1.1 rpg, and -0.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED
 

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Is this a joke!? Maybe the OP has forgotten just how well Artest was playing this year. I would do this deal in a heartbeat!!
 

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Re: I think you've got it the other way around

jazzy1 said:
Artest wants to be better than Odom does and he won't defer to Kobe. He and Kobe would push each other. Kobe doesn't have a mental equal on the team anymore and its hurting the club. Kobe was at its best when he and Shaq would hold each other accountable. Kobe played harder when Shaq made comments and so did Shaq when Kobe did. Artest would bring that to the table.

Odom is waay too nice and defers himself mentally to often. Kobe can be crtiqued by a teammate behind the scenes something I think Artest would do.
Jazzy1's spot on.

Whoever comes should be able to play alongside Kobe and not having both creating havoc in the lockerroom. Ron would do that. He always has.

Hardworking, defensive-minded, rebounding PFs like Elton Brand and K-Mart (if he can play with Melo he can play with Kobe) would surely make my year...
 

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Re: I think you've got it the other way around

Truth34 said:
You are seriously overestimating the value of Lamar Odom.

As much of a headache as Ron Artest is, there is no way he is going to the Lakers unless Indiana gets Odom+more. Indy has already had offers from a few bad teams trying to get a bargain.

So you can forget about getting more than one Pacer for Odom. It would have to be Odom and more for the reigning Defensive Player of the Year.
No, not really. If Artest is unhappy in Indiana and they want to move him at all costs, Odom is the best offer they will receive. This guy's value is down the tubes, he got suspended an entire season and is still very much a headcase from all reliable information available to the public.

That said, I wouldn't trade Odom for Artest (even though it's clearly a good deal for the Lakers in terms of floor impact) because you actually have to be on the court to be a good player.
 

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Re: I think you've got it the other way around

EHL said:
That said, I wouldn't trade Odom for Artest (even though it's clearly a good deal for the Lakers in terms of floor impact) because you actually have to be on the court to be a good player.
Keep Lamar's injury history in mind, though. He's missed parts of every season in his NBA career with injuries. In 01-02 he played in just 29 games. In 02-03 he played in 49 games. He'll likely end this season having played in 64 games. It's not like Lamar is always on the court tio make an impact either.
 

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What planet are you all living on?

Not one of these offers would be accepted by the Pacers.

They've already received offers for Artest, Artest is happy in Indiana, and yes, his value is down, but you're still talking about a 20 point scorer and the best defender in the game.

You're not the only bad team that would love to steal him, but it is going to take more than either Caron Butler or Lamar Odom.
 

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Re: What planet are you all living on?

Truth34 said:
Not one of these offers would be accepted by the Pacers.

They've already received offers for Artest, Artest is happy in Indiana, and yes, his value is down, but you're still talking about a 20 point scorer and the best defender in the game.

You're not the only bad team that would love to steal him, but it is going to take more than either Caron Butler or Lamar Odom.
I wouldn't call Artest the best defender in the game. I think Odom and him have about the same amount of talent. Odom does more things well probably than Artest, Artest is just waay more aggressive. I think Artest is a better player because of it but the Pacer would be getting good value in scooping up up Odom. They'd be losing the headcase which is a major drawback, the man is coming off missing a season for beating up fans no one's sure if his genral attitude has changed. My guess is it hasn't so he's on the NBA hitlist. So there's considerable risk in getting an Artest for the Lakers.

In the East adding a better rebounder than they have on the roster as a sf would surely help. He's better than JO in the boards department. They don't have a bruising center so the size would definitely help them and his unselfishness would blend well.

I think it could be win/win for both teams.
 

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Going hand-in-hand with EHL's thread above about Bender, I've come up with a trade that incorporates all of the names mentioned the last few days. It works on the trade checker too. Here it is:

Lakers trade
Lamar Odom
Vlade Divac
Devean George

Pacers trade
Ron Artest
Austin Croshere
Jonathan Bender

Lakers receive
Ron Artest
Austin Croshere
Jonathan Bender

Pacers receive
Lamar Odom
Vlade Divac
Devean George

I left out the picks because that would only complicate things. If a deal like this were to happen, though, draft picks would almost certainly be involved.

Why the Lakers do it?
They acquire a terrific SF in Ron Artest, a shot blocking forward who can play all three frontcourt positions in Jonathan Bender, and a decent reserve in Austin Croshere. Artest is a guy that clearly would be a better fit on this team that Lamar Odom. He can play off the ball better than Odom and is a much more assertive player. His defensive energy would provide a tremendous boost for this team. All three players are forwards so this move would allow us to deal guys like Butler, Walton, and Slava (if we can make a deal) without depleting our frontcourt depth.

Why the Pacers do it
Strictly for monetary reasons. They get out from under two relatively large contracts and acquire two contracts that expire after next season in return. To make it look like less of a salary dump, they acquire a very talented player in Lamar Odom. He's not the defender or aggressor that Artest is but he's not a selfish player either. He handles the ball well, passes well, rebounds well, and understands the team concept. The Pacers will still need another scorer to team up with O'Neal and Odom but Lamar does give them some versatility.
 

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Lakerman33 said:
This is a pipe dream but:

L.A. Lakers trades: SF Luke Walton (2.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.2 apg in 11.4 minutes)
SF Caron Butler (14.2 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.7 apg in 34.8 minutes)
Devean George (No games yet played in 2004/05)
L.A. Lakers receives: SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +7.8 ppg, -1.1 rpg, and +0.2 apg.

Indiana trades: SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)
Indiana receives: SF Luke Walton (2.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.2 apg in 11.4 minutes)
SF Caron Butler (14.2 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.7 apg in 34.8 minutes)
Devean George (No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: -7.8 ppg, +1.1 rpg, and -0.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED
Sorry, but if I were Indiana I would throw this deal back in Mitch Kupchak's face. Luke is a free agent, George hasn't played in a year and Caron can do only a fraction of what Artest can do on the basketball court.

The better deal would be....





Locke said:
I'd imagine the only way Indiana would trade Artest here is if we also took Austin Croshere's contract. I'd do it because Croshere's and Brian Grant's contracts both expire at the same time. It'd be something like:

L.A. Lakers trades: PF Lamar Odom (15.2 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.7 apg in 36.3 minutes)
Devean George (No games yet played in 2004/05)
L.A. Lakers receives: PF Austin Croshere (9.0 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.5 apg in 25.6 minutes)
SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +18.4 ppg, +1.5 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

Indiana trades: PF Austin Croshere (9.0 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.5 apg in 25.6 minutes)
SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)
Indiana receives: PF Lamar Odom (15.2 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.7 apg in 36.3 minutes)
Devean George (No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: -18.4 ppg, -1.5 rpg, and -0.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED
This deal is more acceptable to both teams, but I think Indiana would want a draft pick to compensate for George if he isn't going to be 100%. Or if Indiana exchanges Croshere for Bender, then that would be a straight swap.
 

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Throw the money out.

The only way that Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh make a deal is if it makes their team better.

They had the best record in the NBA last season with a full squad, and I fail to see how they improve by making these deals.

I think you're stuck with Odom.

The Lakers will get better in the lottery, and could use the MLE or a different trade to improve.
 

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Truth34 said:
Throw the money out.

The only way that Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh make a deal is if it makes their team better.

They had the best record in the NBA last season with a full squad, and I fail to see how they improve by making these deals.

I think you're stuck with Odom.

The Lakers will get better in the lottery, and could use the MLE or a different trade to improve.
I think its quite possible they deal Artest. At some point reliability matters and with Artest's volatile nature thats hard to predict. You need a solid player and team guy to mover forward. Stephen Jackson who also has moments of insanity in his personality mixed with Artest maybe unhealthy for a team to develop. Its a powder keg.

I think Bird could appreciate Odom's all around skills.

Artest has been a headache for the Pacers. He has imploded way to often in the playoffs against the Pistons when they supposdly had the league's best record and this season. I think those things are problems they might want to be rid of.

They love Artests talent but at some point enough is enough.
 

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Jazzy, you're absolutely right

Enough is enough at some point, and the next straw for Artest could be a permanent ban from the league. So you know they're listening to offers.

But Lamar Odom isn't all that enticing, is he? He would be going to his fourth team in a short period of time. I'm sure Indiana has received better offers for Artest than what the Lakers can make.
 

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Lakers Trade:
Lamar Odom
Devean George
Hawks 2005 Second Round Pick

Pacers Trade:
Ron Artest
Jonathan Bender
Pacers 2005 First Round Pick

We could get that done. I'm not sure about Artest though. He's a hell of a player, but he's totally psycho. If he does one more thing wrong, he could be banned from the league. I'd only want him if he could prove that he is a changed man. However, if he did that, the Pacers wouldn't trade him.
 
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