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Oladipo for the people
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48,149 Posts
Probably would have only made 1 or 2 finals if he played in the West
Nope.

It's not like he's made it to the finals and got absolutely smoked. Even this year people bring up how the Cavs only made it because the east is weak and blah blah blah..... yet they gave the Warriors their toughest fight of the playoffs. If they woudn't even be a playoff team out west like some have said, how does that make any sense what so ever?
 

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_(ツ)_ส้้้้&#3
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28,008 Posts
I'm open to format suggestions. People didn't seem to like the method from last time.
Also dig up the KevinBlazer guy who lost his freaking mind during the whole process and I think had the admins delete his entire account over it.
 

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Administrator
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67,767 Posts
The "without @XxIrvingxX" format would probably be the most popular.
I think having 16 people made it a little unwieldy last time.

Might have to cut it down to 12.
 

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Michael Whiteacre's Running Mate
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2,338 Posts
I don't think 2-2 in Miami is a MASSIVE underachievement, winning a title is very difficult. The loss to the Mavs was strange but it was season one if the new look Heat, and lets not forget that the Mavs were on a roll that year. They had swept the Lakers (Kobe/Bynum/Gasol/LO), and beat the Thunder (Durant, Westbrook, Harden) 4-1 in the WCF. The Mavs were under the radar, but they were a force that year.

And then they were definitely an underdog versus that Spurs team in 2014. Lets remember that D-Wade scored 15 ppg in that series shooting under 44% from the field. Bosh scored 14 a game and managed a measly 5 rebounds per game. LeBron James though? 28/8/4 with 2 steals (57% from the field!). Calling the 2014 Miami Heat a "super team" is a gross over simplification of the truth.
I don't think he underachieved on the court in his final three years.

On that day in 2010 if people were told he'd win two championships as part of the Biggest Three it would be deemed a massive failure. Part of this was the hype they brought on themselves - "not 1, not 2....", "winning with these guys is going to be easy".
 

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Super Moderator
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21,879 Posts
I don't think he underachieved on the court in his final three years.

On that day in 2010 if people were told he'd win two championships as part of the Biggest Three it would be deemed a massive failure. Part of this was the hype they brought on themselves - "not 1, not 2....", "winning with these guys is going to be easy".
Sure, but I don't think in 2010 that people thought he would leave in four seasons....so what kind of point is that really making?
 

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Look at your favorite team, now back to mine, mine
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8,475 Posts
I'm open to format suggestions. People didn't seem to like the method from last time.
I thought the way you did it last time was fine, just don't give geeks like Jamel the first pick so he can fuck it up with stupid (but funny) picks.

The "without @XxIrvingxX" format would probably be the most popular.
Because I won my division last time? I don't blame you. I'm too good for someone like yourself.
 

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Michael Whiteacre's Running Mate
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2,338 Posts
Sure, but I don't think in 2010 that people thought he would leave in four seasons....so what kind of point is that really making?
He wouldn't have left Miami last year if they'd won - most people agree on that. It just shows he is a ring chasing mercenary at this point. That's fine - but 2 rings in 5 years while being the premier player on the planet is a poor return given he is cherry picking his surroundings.
 

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Super Moderator
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21,879 Posts
He wouldn't have left Miami last year if they'd won - most people agree on that. It just shows he is a ring chasing mercenary at this point. That's fine - but 2 rings in 5 years while being the premier player on the planet is a poor return given he is cherry picking his surroundings.
Sure, but if they won and were 3 of 4 in Miami, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

LeBron James is the first player since BILL RUSSELL to even get to five consecutive Finals, that in it's own right is not just something to shrug off. Being disappointed about winning two titles in five years is a little silly to me.
 

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Tangible
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14,515 Posts
Sure, but if they won and were 3 of 4 in Miami, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

LeBron James is the first player since BILL RUSSELL to even get to five consecutive Finals, that in it's own right is not just something to shrug off. Being disappointed about winning two titles in five years is a little silly to me.
That's more an indictment of the East than a LeBron accomplishment.
 

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Super Moderator
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21,879 Posts
That's more an indictment of the East than a LeBron accomplishment.
It is an undeniable fact. Do you personally know if the Bill Russell era East wasn't a pushover? I don't, let me take a look.

Well the East did have the worst team in the league, but the league was also...nine teams deep. The East isn't great now, but the East is fifteen teams deep still. This isn't to diminish what Russell did, but this is to highlight how special LeBron is. This is not the first period in time that one conference has been weak, but this is an historic achievement by an NBA great.

The entire point of this thread was to ask if his Finals losses would be held against him. People laugh at the idea of holding this season against him because of how undermanned he was, but look what we're talking about (you too @edabomb). This wasn't just a weak conference, LeBron scored the most points through three games of the NBA Finals in the HISTORY of the league against a team that was a HISTORIC regular season team, and the eventual 2015 NBA champions. That's not coasting against a bad conference, that is a ferocity rarely seen in NBA history.
 

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_(ツ)_ส้้้้&#3
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28,008 Posts
Sure, but if they won and were 3 of 4 in Miami, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

LeBron James is the first player since BILL RUSSELL to even get to five consecutive Finals, that in it's own right is not just something to shrug off. Being disappointed about winning two titles in five years is a little silly to me.
James Jones did it, too, and I'm fairly confident Double-J would have gotten the job done with or without LeBron.
 

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Tangible
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14,515 Posts
It is an undeniable fact. Do you personally know if the Bill Russell era East wasn't a pushover? I don't, let me take a look.

Well the East did have the worst team in the league, but the league was also...nine teams deep. The East isn't great now, but the East is fifteen teams deep still. This isn't to diminish what Russell did, but this is to highlight how special LeBron is. This is not the first period in time that one conference has been weak, but this is an historic achievement by an NBA great.

The entire point of this thread was to ask if his Finals losses would be held against him. People laugh at the idea of holding this season against him because of how undermanned he was, but look what we're talking about (you too @edabomb). This wasn't just a weak conference, LeBron scored the most points through three games of the NBA Finals in the HISTORY of the league against a team that was a HISTORIC regular season team, and the eventual 2015 NBA champions. That's not coasting against a bad conference, that is a ferocity rarely seen in NBA history.
He also shot sub 40% while being single covered and lost the series. Go take your Pecos Bill shit to a time capsule.
 

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Oladipo for the people
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48,149 Posts
That's more an indictment of the East than a LeBron accomplishment.
Because a ton of teams in the west would have run through the Pacers those years? Say what you will, but we both know that just isn't true.

The east isn't as deep for sure, but every year there are at least 2 elite teams in the east.

Hell, I still think if a team like the Nets are getting 8th then it's not a bad conference. It just plays a complete different style. The east plays grind it out defensive games and the west just has a shoot out every game.
 

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Oladipo for the people
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48,149 Posts
He also shot sub 40% while being single covered and lost the series. Go take your Pecos Bill shit to a time capsule.
We're best friends now, but it's sad how bitter you are to Lebron after arguing with everyone how amazing he was when he played for your team.

Don't be that man, man.
 

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Tangible
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We're best friends now, but it's sad how bitter you are to Lebron after arguing with everyone how amazing he was when he played for your team.

Don't be that man, man.
Watched every LeBron game for four years. I don't care what the sheep or the Stephen A.'s of the world think. I've seen about a dozen playoff series where LeBron played better than he did in this one. Boston, Indy, Chicago, San Antonio...This Finals was just everyday LeBron.

Everyone wants to overhype it or romanticize it, but sorry I'm not down with that. If anything I thought he underachieved. Ask Sir Patchwork how many times over the years he and I have talked about LeBron and Durant and I've said, "LeBron is the best player in the world and it's not even close." If you told me before this Finals that Golden State would switch every screen and single cover LeBron all series? I'd have told you he would score about 40 a game and AT LEAST 55%. Are you kidding me? Single cover the best player in the world? It's like people just conveniently forget that he settled for awful shots at the buzzer of games 1 and 2, disappeared in game 4, and had defensive lapses all series.

Again, I'm gonna evaluate him honestly. He was probably exhausted by all the games. But that's not a free pass. That wasn't, "OMG GREATEST SERIES, FIRST LOSING TEAM MVP IN 50 YEARS," level performance. That shit can go right alongside Pecos Bill and the rest of the Tall Tales.
 

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Tangible
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Because a ton of teams in the west would have run through the Pacers those years? Say what you will, but we both know that just isn't true.

The east isn't as deep for sure, but every year there are at least 2 elite teams in the east.

Hell, I still think if a team like the Nets are getting 8th then it's not a bad conference. It just plays a complete different style. The east plays grind it out defensive games and the west just has a shoot out every game.
I always gave the Pacers credit. You know this man. I was the one saying seven games and 50-50 whoever wins game seven. However, last year the Pacers fucking went mental and destroyed themselves. This year the Hawks were frauds. LeBron's last two Finals appearances aren't some grand achievement like GredOden is trying to make it out. I'd hope even he would concede that point.
 

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Welcome to the Grindhouse!
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19,803 Posts
Watched every LeBron game for four years. I don't care what the sheep or the Stephen A.'s of the world think. I've seen about a dozen playoff series where LeBron played better than he did in this one. Boston, Indy, Chicago, San Antonio...This Finals was just everyday LeBron.

Everyone wants to overhype it or romanticize it, but sorry I'm not down with that. If anything I thought he underachieved. Ask Sir Patchwork how many times over the years he and I have talked about LeBron and Durant and I've said, "LeBron is the best player in the world and it's not even close." If you told me before this Finals that Golden State would switch every screen and single cover LeBron all series? I'd have told you he would score about 40 a game and AT LEAST 55%. Are you kidding me? Single cover the best player in the world? It's like people just conveniently forget that he settled for awful shots at the buzzer of games 1 and 2, disappeared in game 4, and had defensive lapses all series.

Again, I'm gonna evaluate him honestly. He was probably exhausted by all the games. But that's not a free pass. That wasn't, "OMG GREATEST SERIES, FIRST LOSING TEAM MVP IN 50 YEARS," level performance. That shit can go right alongside Pecos Bill and the rest of the Tall Tales.


I know in your world (which is not reality) Lebron is a robot. However, in our world he is human and humans get tired. So there is no probably to it and it was a gargantuan feat just to get the Cavs to the finals with Iman Shumpert, JR Smith and Deladova(sp) as your 2nd fiddles. Also, if you watched the Golden State series and came away thinking they single covered Lebron, you should quit commenting about basketball.
 
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