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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just read this on CBS Sportsline, from Gregg Doyel's Dribbles column. Wanted to know what you thought.

Kansas State: This is my spin, but my spin's pretty good. Trust me. Read on. New Kansas State coach Bob Huggins is working on a series with Xavier that could wrap up his recruitment of Cincinnati stars O.J. Mayo and Bill Walker. According to the Cincinnati Enquirer, Kansas State would visit Xavier each of the next two seasons, then get a return trip from Xavier in 2008-09. My spin: When Mayo and Walker are high school seniors, Huggins will play a game in their home town, allowing them to see (again) the buzz Huggins generates. And then Huggins will be able to sell them on the idea that, when they're college freshmen in 2007-08, they'll be able to come back for a homecoming game, i.e., the second Kansas State-Xavier game in Cincinnati. That Huggins is so smart comes as no surprise. However, Xavier's complicity in helping Mayo and Walker choose Huggins -- and not cross-town rival Cincinnati -- is an eye-opener.
 

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As an X fan, anytime you can get 2 out 3 in Cincinnati from a Big 12 team, take it. That being said, I could care less where OJ and friends end up for one year. I am glad to see our schedule being ramped up in general next year. Illinois, Arizona State, K State, Bucknell all here in town. PLus Creighton, UC etc.....much better than this years.
 

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I like scheduling KSU contingent upon Mayo and Co. ending up there. Mayo and Co. that year will most likely bring a lot of media attention with them and any national exposure for X is good. If this series helps sway Mayo and Walker away from UC, well that just makes it even sweeter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I wasn't thinking in terms of the actual scheduling aspect, which I think is good.

I was thinking more about the smarmy tone that Doyel took about Xavier's role in it.

OF COURSE Xavier wouldn't want Mayo and Walker to go to Cincinnati. It's a rivalry.

Doyel makes it sound like there's something nefarious about the whole thing and there's not.
 

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mel,

I agree. I don't understand why he offered that piece up as a journalist.

I cannot imagine that Xavier's AD or any AD would sit around in their office, contriving ways to help keep certain kids from attending certain other schools.

Xavier's focus in this deal is to continue to build an OOC schedule that is in Xavier's best interests. The "circus" aspect of this - Huggins returning to Cincy with probably a number of UC fans showing up for the game in purple to express their love for him - makes for some interesting media. I presume that ticket sales at the 17,000 and change downtown arena will, after rent is paid, still make financial sense to the University (i.e. as opposed to holding the game at the Cintas Center). At any rate, due to NCAA restrictions on scheduling, it apparently was better to place these games into the neutral site category anyway, so, somewhat ironically, the Cintas Center could not be in the picture for this specific opportunity.

Some Xavier fans aren't happy with this because of their (rightful) disdain for Huggins. But, especially if you agree with our beat writer in the Enquirer, it appears to be an excellent scheduling move for X. I imagine this deal will get done, but Xavier is in discussions with other BCS schools about home/away series as well.

Doyle, if for no other reason but in his mind, appears to be attempting to do his job. And I believe he resides in Cincinnati, which makes it very easy to stir up the Musketeer/Bearcat cocktail. I found some comments that Jay Bilas made Re the Xavier/UC rivalry. Here you have a former Duke player who obviously was part of the Duke/UNC rivarly, stating that, in his opinion, there is no more intense heated rivalry in college basketball than X/UC. The proximity of the schools, their dissimilar natures, the once a year aspect, and the corporate sponsorship with a week long build up adds to it all.

ANYTHING that can feed this fire will typically be poured onto it. But Doyle has stretched too far here. It is not of Xavier's nature to meddle. Frankly, I believe we tend to spend most of our focus on UC during the Shootout week. At least we've done okay the last 7 out of 10 years. We don't need to "tamper' with their recruiting to affect that outcome.
 

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I have no problem scheduling KSU. I do have a problem with not having at least one of the two games to be played in Cincinnati at Cintas Centers (XU's home court) and not US Bank Areana (a dump of coverted hockey rink). If the games are only played at US Bank, XU sets a disturbing precedent for scheduling and allows idiot UC fans, now coverted to KSU fans to attend the game and cheer for KSU.
 

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This is a terrible idea, short-term and long term.

First of all, we are giving Chuggy Bear another lifeline as far as whoring himself to the Cincinnati media when Kansas State does come to town. The media loves to paint Xavier as getting a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to host a 2-for-1 against a BCS school, but you can bet the house that Xavier will get very little mention in the press in the days leading up to the game. If Chuggs weren't in Manhattan, there would be no reason whatsoever to play Kansas State under similar circumstances.

Second, as LH referenced, this is a bad precedent for scheduling. We did not build the Cintas Center so we could host American and Bucknell and at the same time play big-time schools at USBank. (Yes, Xavier plays Illinois at USBank Arena next year, but Illinois also had the decency to play us at the United Center last season. A neutral home-and-home, if you will.) We begin a home-and-home with Arizona State next year; you think they're happy they have to come to Cintas now that a lower tier BCS school like Kansas State can broker a deal to play at USBank?

Third, I am disappointed that the Xavier administration would consider whoring themselves out for money by potentially agreeing to a deal like this. Dawn Rogers says she is also contacting other BCS schools as far as potential opponents to schedule for next year. I'd much rather start up a series with a team like UGA, West Virginia, Nebraska, etc. I would even say go ahead and start a home-and-home with an MVC team like Bradley or SIU or Wichita State; either team would have a good record and be just as much of an RPI boon as would Kansas State, if not more. There's no guarantee that K-State will be good overnight, even with Chuggs. Losing K-State doesn't mean we have to settle for IPFW or Longwood; otherwise we'd wind up with a completely inept AD.

And lastly, this would have long-term repercussions with UC and I am not just talking about a single sport. Nancy Zimpher has made it absolutely clear that she wanted to disassociate herself and the university from Huggins. They yanked Andy Kennedy's final radio show off the air at 5/3 Arena in the NIT because they were afraid of AK thanking Huggins for helping him try to steer the UC ship. Mick Cronin was not allowed to mention Huggins whatsoever in his introductory conference. I guarantee that the UC administration will see that there is hell to pay if Xavier schedules a series like this.

If Huggins wants to make a homecoming bad enough, let him play Kentucky or Miami or Dayton or Wright State. The only reason he approached Xavier was because we are in the confines of the I-275 loop.
 

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I like the deal. yes I wish it was at Cintas, but what the hell. We are getting two home games for one with a BCS school.

Screw Nancy Zimpher. Just like Bob Huggins found out that the university was bigger than him, Zimpher will find out that the crosstown shootout is bigger than her. Stronger people than her have tried to end the shootout.

This just gives Xavier three more chances to smoke Huggins.

xu95
 

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I think too many people are reading too much into this KSU scheduling thing. Perhaps you need to put a few miles between yourself and Cincinnati to see it for what it is.

It is simply all about the dollars. Lots of dollars. If Xavier can come close to selling out US Bank Arena and develop enough interest to get the game on ESPN, it will be a very nice windfall. Further, it gets Xavier some exposure west of the Mississippi which it desperately needs.

The fact that a real reprobate like Huggs is the opposing coach is not relevant in this case.

Money, Money, Money, Exposure, Exposure, Exposure. That is the name of the game.

And besides, if uc doesn't like it - too bad. They are not writing the paychecks for Xavier's basketball program.
 

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xu95 said:
I like the deal. yes I wish it was at Cintas, but what the hell. We are getting two home games for one with a BCS school.

Screw Nancy Zimpher. Just like Bob Huggins found out that the university was bigger than him, Zimpher will find out that the crosstown shootout is bigger than her. Stronger people than her have tried to end the shootout.

This just gives Xavier three more chances to smoke Huggins.

xu95
Exactly. From reading muske-tears of whining madness one would think this is the biggest travesty in the history of X basketball. About the only thing I haven't seen on that board about what this game will do to X is it will rip a hole in the space time continuum and X is stuck playing in 1955 with Marty McFly.
 

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Everyone is missing a major fact. US Bank Arena approached both schools about this. This deal is being brokered by a 3rd party with a vested interest in where the game occurs. Neither school, coach or AD approached the other about this series.

Also remember that neutral court games count more in the RPI than home court games.
 

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I love to hate Bob Huggins. I want to play him as long as he coaches. I think he is always going to recruit Cincy well, and he is going to want to play there so he can throw recruits a bone. In that respect, you could argue that playing Huggins could hurt local recruiting, but I don't buy it. UC and X have only gone after a handfull of the same players, and the kids that want to stay home are going to go to X or UC anyway. And many kids don't want to stay home.

I think this is a great deal and an exciting matchup for Xavier fans.

I thought about playing K-State the day he got the job. It really is a no brainer. For the hell of it I would also like to play Ole Miss and Andy Kennedy. I have nothing against AK and I think he did a hell of a job. He might like to come back into to town and play us just to snub them out of spite. They treated him like shyt, and he really got the runaround. I bet he felt like he was lied to and stabbed in the back, and we should welcome the series.

I like playing schools from major conferences. Bring on K-State and Ole Miss. Those schools need to schedule a little meat in the non-con too, and Xavier is respected enough to give them some non-con street cred come selection Sunday.
 

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I think this is the dumbest idea in the world. Xavier complains about a lack of "respect" when it comes to the media, and yet somehow, we feel great about being the host for Huggins return. There is no way to get beyond Huggins shadow now. In fact, you can argue the way Huggins plays the martyr, this will be another example, as Doyel puts it, to show how much pulls Huggins has in the city.

And it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Xavier is helping Huggins land Mayo and Walker. How anyone misses that is being me. These guys are going to play one year. And they will get a game in Cincinnati. It's too perfect.

There's no way Xavier gains anything out of this. People get a hard on the fact a lower Big 12 school is giving us a 2 for 1. I doubt Xavier would be doing hand springs if Baylor gave us such a deal.

I didn't realize Xavier desparately needs exposure west of the Mississippi. And on top of that, the games won't be played on campus. Then to think that this game will register high ratings is foolish.

Did any Xavier fan watch last year's Crosstown Shootout on ESPN? They showed Huggins for long periods of time, and this game will be about coming back and how much he is loved and "oh yeah by the way, Eggszavier beat him a few times when he coached at UC." I'm disappointed any Xavier fan would be excited about helping Huggins and lowering the programs profile.
 

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DC, I find it hard to believe that playing Kansas State is going to lower Xavier's profile. They will be top 25 in the next couple of years. This is going to be a good series. You have to get past the Huggins thing.

xu95
 

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xu95,

I do not think the majority of folks registering a complaint with this deal as it is now being proposed are against us playing KSU. Let's just turn the proposal around so that it is more reasonable and consistent with our past scheduling methods:
2006-2007 Season: XU vs KSU at Manhattan, Kansas
2007-2008 Season: KSU vs XU at Cintas Center.

By accepting such a deal, we reap all the benefits of:
1) playing a Big Six program on a H/A basis
2) playing our game at the Cintas Center
3) preventing BH from having a free Mayo/Walker recruiting trip to Cincy
4) preventing 6,000-8,000 whacko UC fans from celebrating their "High Mass" in honor of Huggins at the US Bank arena

If you don't think Chubbins will have as many as 8,000 of his adoring public at US Bank Arena, just remember that those games are not likely to be included in our ticket package based on AD Rogers' comments. While I have no intention of giving up my 6 Premium 1 season tickets and cutting out my corresponding per seat donation to the University, there is no way I want to go down to the Mausoleum on the River, pay exhorbitant parking fees, and be a part of the public adoration of "Bobba the Hutt." I can't imagine my six seats will be the only ones that will go unsold to Xavier fans. But you do know who will buy them, don't you!?

Do you really think Huggy Bear would go for the scenario I suggest above since it actually puts things on an even playing field for both programs?
 

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It's not me that needs to move on from the Huggins thing, it's the entire town of Cincinnati. A business man put this deal together. It's not on campus, it won't show off anything good about Xavier other then the possible team we will have. It will show all potential recruits that Xavier is small time, just look at the buzz Huggins will generate by being back.

It's not going to be a good series. We can have a good series with 30 other schools in the country, and help us raise our profile. But this is a deal that never gets offered, and there is a reason for that. Xavier has basically bragged about how great and different we are from a Huggins run program. Now he has left, and we provide the platform for him to come back and be the center of the circus. Brilliant. You're right, I'm the one that needs to move on from the Huggins thing. Because Kansas State was such a great game without him there in the first place and we needed to play them for a long time. Right.
 

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DC Muskie said:
95

It's not me that needs to move on from the Huggins thing, it's the entire town of Cincinnati. A business man put this deal together. It's not on campus, it won't show off anything good about Xavier other then the possible team we will have. It will show all potential recruits that Xavier is small time, just look at the buzz Huggins will generate by being back.

It's not going to be a good series. We can have a good series with 30 other schools in the country, and help us raise our profile. But this is a deal that never gets offered, and there is a reason for that. Xavier has basically bragged about how great and different we are from a Huggins run program. Now he has left, and we provide the platform for him to come back and be the center of the circus. Brilliant. You're right, I'm the one that needs to move on from the Huggins thing. Because Kansas State was such a great game without him there in the first place and we needed to play them for a long time. Right.
It could work the other way. Suppose KS comes in and gets their butts whipped. That doesn't help XU?
 

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Mac539 said:
It could work the other way. Suppose KS comes in and gets their butts whipped. That doesn't help XU?
Not when it helps show recruits that Huggins is still bigger then Xavier and UC. Whipping a mediorce Big 12 team isn't the biggest accomplishment in the world, it's the entire package that makes us look bad.
 
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