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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
...remember, many of us wanted Whitsitt gone, were pleased when the Blazers held onto Cheeks, and were very vocal about our desire for changes to the roster. So, IMO, the only people who have anything to ***** about right now are those of you who didn't want any of these three things to happen.

If losing more often than not and missing the playoffs for the first time in 22 years (this being the 22nd year if they make it in) is where we need to go to clean up the mistakes of the past, then so be it.

But, dammit, just don't compound them.

PBF
 

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I just can't wait until the trading deadline has passed. IMO, that (the trade rumors) has been the single most debilitating factor thus far this season.

That said, I still think Mo has done a very poor job of rallying the troops in the face of all these uncertainties. I do hope he is able to pull off the recovery (damage control) phase.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
...remember, many of us wanted Whitsitt gone, were pleased when the Blazers held onto Cheeks, and were very vocal about our desire for changes to the roster. So, IMO, the only people who have anything to ***** about right now are those of you who didn't want any of these three things to happen.
:angel:

I'm TRYING to keeping me complaining to a minimum :)

Ed O.
 

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I'm gonna complain about Ed's new Avatar...WHo the heck made hime change?? Ohh yeah, Hap!!!

Ed please change it back to the other...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally posted by <b>ABM</b>!
I just can't wait until the trading deadline has passed. IMO, that (the trade rumors) has been the single most debilitating factor thus far this season.

That said, I still think Mo has done a very poor job of rallying the troops in the face of all these uncertainties. I do hope he is able to pull off the recovery (damage control) phase.
I agree on both counts, ABM... kinda.

I think our players will be able to focus on the game better once the deadline passes, BUT, I also worry that they'll just quit if they - collectively - perceive little to no chance of turning the season around at that point.

And that points back to Mo as well. I honestly believe that his heart isn't in it right now, a result of not being allowed to talk to Philly about their coaching vacancy during the off-season AND having to deal with the situations his players here have forced on him so far this season. I honestly feel he'd rather be somewhere else - anywhere else - and I think we've seen enough of the team's performance and seen/heard enough from him so far this season to support that theory.

IMO, the Blazers need a stronger coach who places more emphasis on discipline and fundamentals. But they can't bring in someone like that until certain players are gone because those players will just resist someone like that and create more friction/distraction. Moving Bonzi was a good start down that path, as was moving McInnis, but there are still a few more players - Rasheed included - who will have to go before bringing in a stronger coach will provide any real benefit.

But again, this is all just my opinion. Others may vary.

PBF
 

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What future was Bob building for the Blazers?

Yes, he managed to get Zach and Qyntel with low picks, but they both were players that slipped due to character questions. (Q more than Zach).

But beyond that what were his plans? Would Bob have resigned Scottie to a multi year deal? Whould he also resign Sheed? I would think he would have, which would have left the payroll where? The Blazers would have IMO continued to be handcuffed by the salary cap on their own payroll.

My question is this: Is it realistic to think that things would be vastly different had Bob stayed?

Seriosly the roster issues I hear the most complaints about are Bob's doing. Damon, Kemp, O'Neal...

What would Bob have done to make this team competitive now and still transition for the future, while never missing the playoffs?
 

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Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!

What would Bob have done to make this team competitive now and still transition for the future, while never missing the playoffs?
I've maintained for some time that Portland could have signed Payton and still been a player in the 2005 FA market if they'd wanted to be. By that time, ZR would be better, Woods would be ready to start and Outlaw might even be able to contribute.

Adding Payton and keeping Bonzi would have made this team more competitive this year, and probably would have made trading Rasheed easier (since the team would have been dealing from a position of strength, rather than our current weak position). The team would have made the playoffs pretty easily, IMO.

It's entirely possible that the current course of action (which I think is based on Paul Allen's desires, rather than what Nash necessarily thinks is best) will turn out better in the long run. Or it could get us into a nasty cycle of lottery teams that we don't escape for a decade.

About my avatar: changing it (again) by popular request.

Ed O.
 

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I don't think that it is a certainty that any GM could have signed Gary Payton to Portland. I believe his contract demands would have been the same as they were with Nash, and it was Allen that Nixed that.

As far as Bonzi is concerned, his own actions lead him out of Portland, he is to blame for that, not John Nash or Steve Patterson. He confronted the coach in an inappropriate way and we as fans payed the price. But it also cleared the way for a team that the community will once again be open to accepting.

And yes thank you for changing the avatar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
What future was Bob building for the Blazers?

Yes, he managed to get Zach and Qyntel with low picks, but they both were players that slipped due to character questions. (Q more than Zach).

But beyond that what were his plans? Would Bob have resigned Scottie to a multi year deal? Whould he also resign Sheed? I would think he would have, which would have left the payroll where? The Blazers would have IMO continued to be handcuffed by the salary cap on their own payroll.

My question is this: Is it realistic to think that things would be vastly different had Bob stayed?

Seriosly the roster issues I hear the most complaints about are Bob's doing. Damon, Kemp, O'Neal...

What would Bob have done to make this team competitive now and still transition for the future, while never missing the playoffs?
I think you missed my point, Schilly (unless I'm missing yours right now):

I'm glad Bob's gone. He was given a mandate to shoot for a championship, and he did. But he wasn't given a mandate to sell this team's soul to Hell in the proces... but that's what he did.

My point is that people who wanted Bob gone (including me), who wanted the Blazers to hold onto Maurice (including me), and who wanted character-based roster changes (including me) shouldn't be complaining about losing right now.

The changes we (those of us who wanted any/all of these things to happen) wanted have caused a lot of turmoil in the locker-room. And more changes are still in store. Who knows how long it's going to take the Blazers to make them all, but once they do, it's going to take even longer for the air to clear and the team to refocus itself on playing and winning.

Point is: In the mean-time, I don't think "fans" who wanted these changes to happen should be complaining about losing.

PBF
 

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I was merely reinforcing your point, not necessarily retorting to it. I am glad the changes were made and I realize we may be down for a while. At the same time I have mainted that to me personally the pplayoof streak doens't mean much, but a championship does.

IMO hanging on to the streak hinders positioning to win a championship in 3-5 years.

I think Portl;and has done a good job positioning themselves to not drop too far for too long. This upcoming draft and the summer of 2005 will be key.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!


I think you missed my point, Schilly (unless I'm missing yours right now):

I'm glad Bob's gone. He was given a mandate to shoot for a championship, and he did. But he wasn't given a mandate to sell this team's soul to Hell in the proces... but that's what he did.

My point is that people who wanted Bob gone (including me), who wanted the Blazers to hold onto Maurice (including me), and who wanted character-based roster changes (including me) shouldn't be complaining about losing right now.

The changes we (those of us who wanted any/all of these things to happen) wanted have caused a lot of turmoil in the locker-room. And more changes are still in store. Who knows how long it's going to take the Blazers to make them all, but once they do, it's going to take even longer for the air to clear and the team to refocus itself on playing and winning.

Point is: In the mean-time, I don't think "fans" who wanted these changes to happen should be complaining about losing.

PBF
Hmmm. Very interesting.

I didn't want Trader Bob to be replaced, unless the Blazer's had already lined up a great replacement.

I felt that Trader Bob was the best person for the job of fixing many of his own mistakes.

I didn't want the Blazer's to hold on to Cheeks. His first season with the team was enough for me. Experiment over as far as I was concerned. The week of the Philly "incident" I posted that it was a golden opportunity for the Blazers to get out from the mistake of Cheeks and let him be the bad guy for leaving. I wanted the Blazers to extract a pick out of Philly, and then make a run at a better coach. Many were available.

I wasn't anxious to start dumping players in a firesale atmosphere. I felt it was important to have a 2 or 3 year plan, to ensure to process of rebuilding the roster has the highest chance at success. As far as "character based roster changes", besides Kemp, who was already gone, No. 1 on my hit list is and was Damon Stoudamire. After that Ruben Patterson. Since both are so very hard to trade due to bad contracts, that meant a "character" upgrade to the roster couldn't be done quickly without destroying the franchise.

So, I guess this means I get to complain all I want, seeing as how the Blazer's haven't done a damn thing I would have for a long time.
 

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Hummm...I haven't seen a fire sale yet. All indications lead to what appears to be a 2-3 year plan. The only difference isd who is pushing forward with the plan.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!


About my avatar: changing it (again) by popular request.

Ed O.
Ed, where is your new avatar from?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Originally posted by <b>Masbee</b>!

Hmmm. Very interesting.

...

So, I guess this means I get to complain all I want, seeing as how the Blazer's haven't done a damn thing I would have for a long time.
In my book, Masbee, that's exactly what that means. If it was my place to bust people's chops for complaining about losing, I wouldn't bust yours (but I'm sure others here will anyway).

But my question to you is this: How do you feel about the losses as they continue to mount?

PBF
 

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Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
...remember, many of us wanted Whitsitt gone, were pleased when the Blazers held onto Cheeks, and were very vocal about our desire for changes to the roster. So, IMO, the only people who have anything to ***** about right now are those of you who didn't want any of these three things to happen.
And I reserve that right to ***** any time! :devil:

But I try not to. Sports is for fun, not for stress or annoyance.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!

I don't think that it is a certainty that any GM could have signed Gary Payton to Portland. I believe his contract demands would have been the same as they were with Nash, and it was Allen that Nixed that.
Well, if we assume that Whitsitt was kept on, then we also need to assume that Allen's patience had not run thin. One was the result of the other. Absent one, probably absent the other, too.

Whitsitt always looked to upgrade the roster. Nash seems to want to tear down.

While being resolved in what you want to do (and both Whitsitt and Nash would have been) is good, I prefer Whitsitt's resolution.

So we had a "good" team and not a "great" team last year. Big deal...even if a lot of people didn't like that, the fact is that great teams come from upgrades to good teams.

Breaking the team down to terrible, simply means the team needs to build for a few years before it will be back to where it was last year or year before. And then that jump to "great" will still need to happen.
 
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