[LakerLunatic]

Everytime i see clippers games, i hear the annoucners saying that there going to have to trade Maggette in order to re-sign Simmons. How the heck does that work? Why can't they have both guys? If they do in fact trade Maggette for they can keep simmons i think its a HUGE mistake, but thats just my opinion, what do you guys think? And do they HAVE to trade Maggette like the announcers constantly preach.

 

[arenas809]

If the Clips trade Mags, I'm done.

At this point he is our best player, I am for adding to the team, not subtracting. For the numbers Mags puts up and the $ he's being paid, he's a bargain. I still say had we brought in Baron Davis, Mags, Brand, all of our guys would be better players, he makes guys better. They are 7-3 out of their last 10, 10-6 in the month of March.

He's been the leading scorer in 6 of those games, 4 of those wins. That folks is a difference maker, you can't ignore numbers like that unless you just choose to be an idiot and some do that make that choice. I don't.

Sorry to go on this little Baron tangent, but I just truly believe that if we had brought in a player like that, especially giving up guys who aren't even a part of the rotation for him, all this talk of resigning this guy or trading that guy, or this guy does this wrong, and that wrong wouldn't exist right now.

 

[yamaneko]

Really? I must be missing that, i havent heard that once? Are you talking about ralph lawler and mike smith broadcasts?

They can keep simmons and magette in their sleep, and still have like 5-6 million left over. However, as the clippers have been talking the last few years, their number one priority is to get a big time star. Now, if they stay true to their word and do that, yes, they would have to trade magette to keep simmons i would think, unless simmons comes back for way less than other teams offer him.

 

[yamaneko]

Oh brother, magette is our best player? He has never been our best player. Brand is leaps and bounds over him. That right there will make anyone stop reading the rest of your post.

Thank GOD we didnt get baron davis. Almost no team in the league, including the clippers wanted anything to do with his contract, shooting percentage, and injury problems. Hornets practically had to give him away, because even they didnt want him. Even if he does play a full year sometime, there is a huge chance (not like 10%) that he will have a season or possibly career ending aggravation of his back problem. Since its uninsurable, whatever team will then have to pay him 40 million for nothing. If you would like baron davis on your team, thats your personal preference, everyone is entitled to their opinion or their fantasy of who theyd like on their team....like me with jin and miles. however, dont say that anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot..especially when you are dead wrong with your stance. All GMS and basketball experts who say to stay away from Baron are idiots and you are the only one who is right? Please. Of course baron davis should be a difference maker on the warriors. They gave up almost nothing for him, and he is a potential 20 point scorer when healthy. Just on numbers alone, that means the warriors should win every game hes in now, but thats not the way basketball works. You say he makes players better. Thats something you have to look at the long road. If you want to look at the here and now, before davis came to the warriors jrich averaged 25 points. After baron, in march, jrich averaged 20 points. Mike jr. before baron averaged 16 points. After baron, he averaged 13 points.

if the clippers gave up almost nothing for baron davis this year early in the season,its a possibility they would have made the playoffs this year due to the injuries, if baron himself stayed healthy. (hes only been healthy for about a month or two, so im not sure if that would have made the difference). However, thats besides the point, as elgin baylor and dunleavvy knew that. They are looking at a 60 million dollar investment. You do not buy a 60 million dollar hotel that you know will get you good results this year, but has the possibilty to fall down 1 or 2 years down the road....especially when you cannot get insurance on that in case that does happen. Thats the simplest way i can put it to you. That hotel could get us big money this year, but how many investors would actually get it, if theres more than a 50/50 chance that it will only be usable for half of some years, or end up falling down permananetly all together?

 

[Starbury03]

They can keep both. I think Brand is the clips best player also but Maggette should be their best if he becomes more consistent and get his decision making together. One of these two needs to develope a killer instinct somehow. Niether one seems to want the ball at the end.

 

[Weasel]

I too have not heard of the Clippers broadcasters say anything about trading Maggette. Now, I did hear some reporter on the east coast say something about there might be some trouble between Brand and Maggette and Maggette might get the boot in the summer but I am not sure how credible that source was. Trading Maggette is tricky, Maggette is a good 1-1 player and has been hitting his shot lately (not the last 2 games) and knows how to get to the foul line. He puts his body on the line each game and people question that he gets injured a lot but they don't notice that he gets hit hard every game trying to draw the foul. Not many players take a beating like Maggette does game in and game out. Now, Dunleavy seems to have taken great interest in Simmons. Simmons has shown he can be consistent and can be very physical. Simmons is my MIP, he has had a great turn around since being on the Clippers. Like I have said before this should be an interesting summer.

 

[arenas809]

Thank GOD we didnt get baron davis. Almost no team in the league, including the clippers wanted anything to do with his contract, shooting percentage, and injury problems.

Do you ever pay attention to facts?

7 out of their last 10, .600 in the month of March, with the guy, and you can't see that?

Rick Adelman says hey those guys are better than a lot of teams going into the playoffs, no one was saying before they got there, they weren't beating anyone before he got there, and all Golden State had to do to get him was give up 2 guys that weren't going to be on the team next season, and with them being cap tied, they weren't going to get a Baron Davis in free agency.

As far as I'm concerned their future is a hell of a lot better than ours, not only do they have a core of young talent, they have decent role players off the bench, and even more young talent that isn't needed to contribute right now waiting in the wings AND they have superstar talent with Davis and JRich.

That's a hell of lot better than us conserving money every year just to strike out during the summer and be mediocre in the fall.

<strike>I can't address you anymore, you just don't know **** about the game, and rather than acknowledging facts, figures, etc. you spout a bunch of bull**** that you conjure up in your mind, and as far as I'm concerned there's no point in addressing people here like that.
</strike>

 

[yamaneko]

Im the one who pays attention to facts, youre the one whos running on hopes and dreams. I just love how you cant even come close to challenging that logical illustration that i made that PERFECTLY describes the baron davis situation. I even surprised myself with that one.

The warrirors basically gave up speedy claxton for baron davis. And you are surprised that they have a winning record? If he is healthy dang right they better be winning. A healthy claxton vs. a healthy davis? No comparison. But you cant get around the injury problem. Thats probably why you never address it in your posts since you know you are 100% wrong, and 99% of the basketball experts and GMS out there are 100% right.

You also continue to shoot yourself in the foot by comments like golden state's future is brighter than the clippers. Oh my freeking goodness is that hilarious. NEITHER baron NOR jrich are superstars. They owe their PG who has a high injury rate about 65 million over the next few years, they owe freaking adonol foyle about 50 million over that time, and they owe a getting old derek fisher about 35 million over that time too. dunleavvy becomes a restricted FA after next year, richardson and murphy too are tied up for years to come which is good in one sense, bad, in the sense as they have no room to do anything,

Clippers on the other hand have magette, brand, kaman, livingston, ross. Livingston being the only one injury prone, but its hard to say that after only 5 months..also has no lingering problems. Clippers also have about 14 million or so to play with this year and/or next in free agency.

Youre the one who denies documented fact. Leave this message board, no one here would miss you. Your posts are such a cancer here, its almost enough to drive someone to want the clippers to trade magette, just to be rid of you here, since you said you would take off if they do.

 

[TheClipSHow11]

I like both of your takes on the game............ You guys have different idealogies about the game - and respect them - even if you think there are dead wrong. I love listening to what you have to say about something - but I do not like when you guys act like XXXXX and get defensive and nasty towards one another. I know you are both passionate in what you write - just don't get upset - it weakens your credibility.

 

[Weasel]

I like both of your takes on the game............ You guys have different idealogies about the game - and respect them - even if you think there are dead wrong. I love listening to what you have to say about something - but I do not like when you guys act like XXXXX and get defensive and nasty towards one another. I know you are both passionate in what you write - just don't get upset - it weakens your credibility.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[yamaneko]

at least ive never had to have my posts edited to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Darth Bryant]

Everytime i see clippers games, i hear the annoucners saying that there going to have to trade Maggette in order to re-sign Simmons. How the heck does that work? Why can't they have both guys? If they do in fact trade Maggette for they can keep simmons i think its a HUGE mistake, but thats just my opinion, what do you guys think? And do they HAVE to trade Maggette like the announcers constantly preach.

I'm not sure what announcers your hearing this from. But I have never heard it. And its hoenstly crap if it was said. There is enough room in the cap to sign both Simmons and Jaric. What it really comes down to is if the Clippers are going to go for an allstar and use most of the cap for that player or not. Bobby will be here if the clippers cannot get a superstar next year.

Corey is going no where. I promise that to anyone here. I"ll bet anyone who wants to bet. At his price, and his talent level the clippers will NEVER find someone better in his position for that kind of change.

 

[yamaneko]

agreed for the most part, BUT the only thing would be is if the clippers decide to save their money to go after someone next year...kind of like letting Q go this year so they could save for allen and redd this year. Thats why i keep asking who are the available Free agents in 06? If there arent any superstars, they just might sign bobby to a long term deal, instead of tanking 2 more years. Otherwise, if they cant get someone this year, and there IS a possiblity next year, they always could still have the room by giving simmons a big one year contract.

There is an infinate number of possiblities to this offseasn, it will be one of the most interesting yet as weasel said. Dont forget the draft either. I belive (could be mistaken) the clippers have 1 or 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders. , at least 3 picks unless im cornfused. But one thing that is certain, the clippers will NOT trade magette just for the sole reason to retain simmons...its not necessary. If magette is traded, it will be probably a sign and trade deal with someone else i would think .

 

[Weasel]

I believe the Clippers have 1 first round pick (their own) and 1 second round pick (the bobcats), the Clippers second round pick goes to the Nets in the Kittles trade.

 

[Darth Bryant]

Oh brother, magette is our best player? He has never been our best player. Brand is leaps and bounds over him. That right there will make anyone stop reading the rest of your post.

Thank GOD we didnt get baron davis. Almost no team in the league, including the clippers wanted anything to do with his contract, shooting percentage, and injury problems. Hornets practically had to give him away, because even they didnt want him. Even if he does play a full year sometime, there is a huge chance (not like 10%) that he will have a season or possibly career ending aggravation of his back problem. Since its uninsurable, whatever team will then have to pay him 40 million for nothing. If you would like baron davis on your team, thats your personal preference, everyone is entitled to their opinion or their fantasy of who theyd like on their team....like me with jin and miles. however, dont say that anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot..especially when you are dead wrong with your stance. All GMS and basketball experts who say to stay away from Baron are idiots and you are the only one who is right? Please. Of course baron davis should be a difference maker on the warriors. They gave up almost nothing for him, and he is a potential 20 point scorer when healthy. Just on numbers alone, that means the warriors should win every game hes in now, but thats not the way basketball works. You say he makes players better. Thats something you have to look at the long road. If you want to look at the here and now, before davis came to the warriors jrich averaged 25 points. After baron, in march, jrich averaged 20 points. Mike jr. before baron averaged 16 points. After baron, he averaged 13 points.

if the clippers gave up almost nothing for baron davis this year early in the season,its a possibility they would have made the playoffs this year due to the injuries, if baron himself stayed healthy. (hes only been healthy for about a month or two, so im not sure if that would have made the difference). However, thats besides the point, as elgin baylor and dunleavvy knew that. They are looking at a 60 million dollar investment. You do not buy a 60 million dollar hotel that you know will get you good results this year, but has the possibilty to fall down 1 or 2 years down the road....especially when you cannot get insurance on that in case that does happen. Thats the simplest way i can put it to you. That hotel could get us big money this year, but how many investors would actually get it, if theres more than a 50/50 chance that it will only be usable for half of some years, or end up falling down permananetly all together?

I'm still not aboard with the anti-Davis movement. Although he is far from my first choice... VERY far... If he was the only superstar (I'm sorry if people dont like him, or his injuries, but the times he DOES play its at superstar caliber, as Golden start that are now 11 and 7 with him, and those games include beating Sacramento (Two times), and Pheniox, Minny, and seattle. Teams that Golden state in there wildest dreams had NO chance of beating before he came. Almost half of the games that Golden state won came after Davis came to the team and took over. Healthy he worked wonders for GS, and he would have worked wonders and definately made the clippers this year playoff bound. I mean, we all love livinston right? I love Livingston and Jaric. Jarics one of my favorite clippers, and its not like either of those two have had a heality season. Would I trade either of them for Davis... OF COURSE, and anyone who wouldnt would be foolish.

The Lakers also did want Davis. But because of problems with Salary cap... Namely there Brian Grant contract, they had nothing to offer to get Davis. Lakers expiring contracts dont roll around until 2007-2008. And also by checking Real GM, the only teams Davis would even consider staying with didnt have cap room except for Golden State. He is a California boy, and he has lived both in Northern Californa, and of course southren california and played College ball in so cal.

Hornets didn't give him away because they thought he sucked or was hurt all the time. It was because Davis requested a trade and said he would never be content in NO. He even had a fall out with the GM, and towards the end of NO decided to keep him from playing since he was going to be used as trade bait. If Davis wanted to stay there, and wanted to be the next allstar for NO, he would have. Simple as that.

Perhaps you can show me were every GM in the league said they were not interested in Davis? The only places I've seen that werent interested in him was normally because the lacked in cap space and players worth trading for. ot to mention, if say a team like the Bobcats or some other low level team wanted to trade four players or something for Davis to meet the cap space, but Davis said "I dont want to play for the bobcats", sure he might have no choice, but most teams with GMs that have common sense know how stupid it is to get a player who has no interest in playing on your team, because he is bound to be out the door as soon as his contract expires. If you want an example, take a look at Carter, who claimed he was so unhappy playing for the Raptors that he never game it 100 percent. He was also hurt often, and some even then had questioned how bad his injuries were.

Since switching over to Golden state, in the last 19 games he has avered just under 9 assists per game. 21 ppg and only 2.1 turn overs per game. Call me crazy but if your responsible for getting 9 assists a game, and getting your team to score 18 plus points, at the same time hitting your 21 points, and not to mention he has the ability to actually defend which is a talent a lot of PG's are lacking now adays. And more importantly, for say the clippers... Davis has a great ability to shoot the clutch as he has already done so four times since switching over to GS, and in the games were he didnt need to be clutch got the majority of his points and assists in the second half. Id say he is worth the money. Can he stay healthy? Well, he is young. Most of his bigger injuries were never considered career threatening, unlike say injuries that have plauged Jason Kidd over the years.

I got a feeling his best years are ahead of him, and the clippers would have been a better team with him. Now is he my first pick, no. But if I couldnt get my first picks, i'd have no problems letting him be my runner up.

 

[yamaneko]

at the beginning of the first paraggraph, Again, youre not saying much...no team in the league who trades a speedy claxton for baron davis is going to do worse in the immediate, of course as long as baron davis is healthy, which he has been for a few weeks. OF COURSE the warriors are doing better. Id expect them to do better than they are even, but their other two key players have dropped off in their play since getting davis, thus theyve only won 11 of their games. I dont think there is a GM in the league who would trade livingston for davis. Again, bottom line is his injury. For an instant fix, yes absolutely...if you were borderline making the playoffs this year without a davis, money wasnt an issue (like perhaps the mavs, etc.), a team might consider trading one of the best PG prospects in years for davis, because they figure, hey we get into the playoffs this year, and if davis gets injured again as expected, oh well, without him we were pretty much a playoffteam just about anyway, lets see what we can do without him. Now, it would be a ridiculously different story if baron davis wasnt so injury prone. If he hadnt gotten his serious injury, of course you would trade livingston for davis, youd trade even more than livingston for him. Because during his only 1-2 good years, he showed that when healthy he could be a top 5 PG in the league. Livingston has the chance to be the best...but the best in the future POSSIBLy compared to a top 5 PG NOW, of course its easy to say which you choose. But no matter how you or arenas words it, there is no getting around his injury problem. To us here sitting on the sidelines, we dont think about the money issue as much since that part doesnt affect us as fans. But remember, teams are businesses run by business owners who have a lot invested, and are looking to get a return on their money. Its the same as my analogy of the hotel, which im sure you saw. Can you picture someone guaranteeing 70 million dollars to buy a hotel which for 1-2 years was one of top 15 hotels in the country, but for the past 3 years, has only been open about half the time due to structural problems? Perhaps you might say that is what building insurance is for. Well, with baron davis, you cant insure his injury. With the hotel you cant insure it. Thus, all the experts (doctors) say that its very likely that more structural problems could happen in the future (injuries), perhaps the building comes down all together (career ending injury), yet no matter what, you have to pay 15 million a year for the next 5 years, which not only sucks since youre paying for something thats not doing anything for you, but keeps you from purchasing other hotels which could help you (salary cap). Also, you just invested 5 years and 15 million dollars into a hotel (livingston) thats on the same street (plays the same position), as this other hotel, and who experts say could become one of the best hotels in the country. Do you see the point? It just doesnt make sense. Is it a guarantee that the hotel (davis) WILL have structural problems, and WILL fail? No. No one can say. But its a HUGE gamble to invest that money with no insurance. Not many people would do it. Perhaps donald trump (mark cuban) would. Or a company which has nothing to lose since they are one of the worst companies (warrirors) in california (pacific division), they already own a lot of old, over paid hotels (fisher, foyle, etc.) which doesnt allow them to buy straight (free agency) up any good hotels in the future, plus all they have to do to get this hotel (davis), is give up a couple of motel 6's (dale, claxton). Either that, or someone who is a HUGE gambler. Remember, 70 million dollars is A LOT to gamble on something that the experts say stay away from.

Fact of the matter is, if someone really wanted davis, they could have gotten him. Its not like the warrirors was the only team he would agree to going to because they have this shot at a championship. TONS of teams could have easily given up more than claxton for him. Trading dale davis and speedy claxton for davis is like trading mikki moore and rick brunson for him. Of course some teams couldnt because of salary cap, but the teams who could have, many of them, just stayed away. here is an exceprt from an article i read before he was traded:

Secondly, let’s just eliminate Baron Davis from the possibilities. When healthy, he’s a dynamic scorer, a smart passer, a rugged defender, and a triple-double threat. The problem is, he’s never healthy. He’s back on the injured list, yet again, and he’s got a monstrous contract that given his injury history, no team in their right mind would want to touch with a ten foot pole.

Same was said a lot by our own announcers, by our coach, by our GM, one other GM too that i lost the link to..

 

[Darth Bryant]

The problem is... Shaun as good as he is for a rookie, isnt displaying the type of talent Baron did when he came into the league. Not to mention, he has managed only what 20 games this season and its almost over. Because of Livingstons size and thin build, its reasonible to assume he might be injuried often. So if I had Baron davis, who was injured just as much as Livingston, at this point in time I'd take Davis. Because in every aspect of the game.. At least right now, Davis is a better basketball player. That might change... Livingston might blow up... He is a rookie after all...

Jaric and Shaun have played a while now together, and apart. And in all but three games played, Jaric has gotten more assists, better FG percentage, and less turn overs. Since some believe Shaun is the future of the team, he has a long way to go. His highlight reel is short compared to others, especally davis.

Davis:
# Led team in assists with 7.3 per game (tied for 11th in the NBA) in 2000-2001
# Finished fifth in the NBA in steals per game with 2.07
# Was named the NBA player of the week for 11/20-11/26
# Was candidate for NBA's Most Improved Player in 2000-2001
# Broke rookie franchise record for most assists in a season with 598 (held previous by Kendall Gill - 303) in 1999-00
# First on team in minutes played among players without a single start with 1,523 and first Hornets player to record at least 1,000 minutes in their rookie season since Alonzo Mourning (1992-93)

Not a bad start for Davis. I know he has been around a LOT longer than Livingsotn, but a lot of these records were achieved in the early start of his NBA career as a rookie.

But hey, to each his own. Everyone has an opinion eitherway. But the lakers are probably the the best or one of these best franchise building teams in the NBA. Everyone is laughing at them this season because of how bad they are, but if you have been a fan of theirs like have have for over 20 years, you know that this is how they always start out there future teams.

The lakers REALLY wanted Baron Davis and Boozer. And rather you like Davis or not.. Kobe Bryant, Baron Davis, and Carlos Boozer would have been a very strong team in the west.

Just like the clippers with Baron would have been stronger. Simply because at this point in time Davis is much better than Shaun, and better than Jaric. So the arguement with Speedy doesnt matter, because the goal of trading for a superstar is to replace a player on your team that isnt as good. So if clippers would have traded Jaric or livingston or both for Davis, at the time it would have been the same difference. (In a couple years, livingston could skyrocket into glory, Jaric maybe to, but until then they arent worth as much or as good as Davis.)

Besides in Stats, which davis dominates.. Follow the games. I'm a UCLA allumn, and have followed Davis since he came to the NBA. And anyone who thinks he isnt better than Livingston or Jaric now, has a bias towards him. The future is the future, I'm only talking about now. And the present is Davis.

 

[Darth Bryant]

Same was said a lot by our own announcers, by our coach, by our GM, one other GM too that i lost the link to..

Also, Id like to see a link to this. I'd like to see the offical Quote by our GM, and Our Coach, and our Announcers, because Ralph said durning the NO game earlyer this year when the clippers lost, but almost came back that he said something to the effect of how tough it must be for NO's (Because the time they were having a horrible time winning) to be without there best player and probably one of the best PG's in the game. Then they had a close up camera shot of Davis talking to another Injuried teammate behind the bench.

I dont recall him ever saying anything about not wanting Davis when the trade rumours started, can you tell me when that happened? And can you get me a link for our coach, and our GM or any other coach and GM that said they didnt want Davis?

And at the offseason last year, everyone and there brother thought we'd go for and get Davis..

http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2002/0719/1407713.html

http://www.hoopsworld.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi?archive=40&num=10874

The worest I could find on anyone from the Clippers org was this by Mike D.

Dunleavy said that while he respects the talent Davis has, the Clippers' concern was his health and his hefty contract. Davis has been beset by injuries the past two seasons, and this season only has played in 17 games because of back, heel and ankle maladies. When healthy, however, he is one of the NBA's premier guards, with the ability to player either the point or shooting guard.

Which wasn't bad or god. It merely said that he would have some concerns that we all have about his health, but it didnt say he wouldnt consider it at all.

But the regiester claims the clippers still went for him, but couldnt make the deal before the golden state deal went through. And it also said the only reason they went for the deal is ebcause of the expiring contracts comming NO's way, which they felt was a chance to start over and get players with more desire to play for the Hornets.

 

[yamaneko]

Livinston shows more of an upside in 20 games though as baron did when he didnt even warrant a start in his rookie year. But thats besides the point...the point is the injury problem. As i said, a healthy baron davis who is no injury prone is definately more valuable than livingston, even with his contract. Couple of things im not sure who has the wrong information on. It says he broke a rookie record of 598 assists in one season. However i show that he got that in his second year, and only got 300 assists his rookie season. (3.6 a game. livingston so far this year is 4 assists a game)

Lakers had very little chance to get davis, so wanting him doesnt mean that much. their salary cap issues are pretty serious.

And here we have the epitome of the whole situation with the baron davis argument. You said it perfectly here:

And anyone who thinks he isnt better than Livingston or Jaric now, has a bias towards him. The future is the future, I'm only talking about now. And the present is Davis.

No one is saying a healthy davis isnt better. even ive said that. Problem is theres too high of a risk that he will go under again as he has for what, half of the last 3 years? Also, i said this year he could have helped the clippers. But as in any businesses, you dont go for the quick fix without looking long term. You dont get a quick fix, when it could cost you 70 million for the next 5 years, paralyzing your organization. You dont be like minnesota and take a chance at talking to joe smith when you could risk screwing yourself with nba sanctions (no first round pick for 5 years). I agree he could have helped the clippers for the few weeks he has been healthy this month. But you dont do that deal unless he has an expiring contract.

Ill look for the links tomorrow...

 

[Darth Bryant]

Livinston shows more of an upside in 20 games though as baron did when he didnt even warrant a start in his rookie year. But thats besides the point...the point is the injury problem. As i said, a healthy baron davis who is no injury prone is definately more valuable than livingston, even with his contract. Couple of things im not sure who has the wrong information on. It says he broke a rookie record of 598 assists in one season. However i show that he got that in his second year, and only got 300 assists his rookie season. (3.6 a game. livingston so far this year is 4 assists a game)

Lakers had very little chance to get davis, so wanting him doesnt mean that much. their salary cap issues are pretty serious.

And here we have the epitome of the whole situation with the baron davis argument. You said it perfectly here:



No one is saying a healthy davis isnt better. even ive said that. Problem is theres too high of a risk that he will go under again as he has for what, half of the last 3 years? Also, i said this year he could have helped the clippers. But as in any businesses, you dont go for the quick fix without looking long term. You dont get a quick fix, when it could cost you 70 million for the next 5 years, paralyzing your organization. You dont be like minnesota and take a chance at talking to joe smith when you could risk screwing yourself with nba sanctions (no first round pick for 5 years). I agree he could have helped the clippers for the few weeks he has been healthy this month. But you dont do that deal unless he has an expiring contract.

Ill look for the links tomorrow...

The informaiton I got was from NBA.com, you can trust them. :yes: And you are correct, it was his second year. However, the rookie franchise record is account for theyears within the length of a rookies contract, without option. At least thats how I understand it.

And the problem is, Livingston is starting on the Clippers not because he is better than Davis, but because Clippers had no other Point guards worth starting over, except for maybe Jaric(but with injurys, it wasnt gonna happen). Brunson is an old man, and not ment to start. But the thing is, Livingstons horrible health conditions this season, as well as a Jarics have made Brunson as important as he was. We keep giving crap about Baron being hurt, come on Livingston was hurt what three times this season? And shouldnt even be playing now? Its a lot easyer to have your assists per game be higher if you only played 21 games this season, instead of 82 like Baron did his first year. :biggrin: Not to mention Barons Rookie season when he wasn't the starter, he played 18 minutes a game, compared to shuans 22.9 minutes a game. Four minutes of play time, especally being a starter in the fourth Quater could translate into more assissts.. In fact it probably should be a little higher, but because of TO's, livingstons numbers so far these 21 odd games have been limited.

Sometimes to take a risk can lead your team to the right road of a championship. Clippers have never taken a risk. And some have siad thats why they havent made the play offs in a decade. If I were to risk having a Baron Davis, and Livingston as the backup, and get rid of Jaric and someone else, I would have taken it. Because for as much as both of those two have been hurt lately, I got to believe that one of them will at least be healthy when the other is not.

At this point, next season Id have rather seen Davis starting on the Clippers than livingston. Livingston has a lot of work to go before Im going to deem him a PG god, that he has been predicted by. Because three injuries, two of which related to the fact that he is underweight and very thin, its hard to get that excited about him. And the best I've seen him do so far is that 11 assisst game, which is nothing to snub a noise at by any means, but I have seen Jaric (Especally the time before last when he came back), went 8 straight games with 7 or more assissts, and was a defensive machine. Livingston is no where near the defender Jaric and Davis are. Until he meets these requirements I'm going to say I'd rather have a Davis on the clippers. And I'm also going to say I'd rather have a jaric.

That being said, I do see the livingston potiential. And I never once intended to bash him. I enjoy watching him play, and I think he is gifted. I just have concerns, when you look at the majority (Not all of them mind you) of PG's that were considered the best of all time, you dont see a lot of 6'7 182 pounders. That kind of size banging up with bigger players is bad news waiting to happen.. And has already been bad news... Now Marko's 217 pound frame is a bit more desirable for a long hual. And Davis 223 pound is even better in my opinion.

Like I said, time will tell rather or not we should have gotten Davis. I got a feeling next season that answer will be much more apparent than it is now.