[Thrilla]

Since everyone has an opinion on who deserves the max and how come, I have decided to start this thread. These are my opinions.


A max player IMO, is worthy of the max if he is the teams best player. He is their go to guy down the stretch. He can make the big plays when his team needs it the most. He wants the ball when the game is on the line. He can "will" his team to victory. He makes his team win, and makes the players around him better. And also, is a helluva player. (This doesn't include everything, but the only things I can think of at this time)

IMO, stats are not a good reflection on who is or isnt a max player. Some players could just be putting up good stats due to circumstances(injuries, poor team, etc.)

Upcoming FAs-
Gary Payton- No....If he was younger, yes...but not at this age were he has bout 4 years left
Steve Francis- Yes- We saw wht happened to Houston this year
Andre Miller- Boderline....He can't win because he doesn't have a ton of talent around him, but somehow always gets the job done.
Lamar Odom- Borderline- If he has a huge season, yes...if not, no.
Elton Brand- Yes. A 20/10 player, and is an All Star
Wally Szczerbiak- No. He can score, but where's the D and rebounding....if he gets maxed out....is Allan Houston all over again

These are just some examples, and I would like to hear some responses.

 

[jazzy1]

I pretty much agree with your criteria but not some of your choices.

Jkidd-Yes enough said
Rashard Lewis-NO good player not great may jam franchise if he gets max contract ala Juwan Howard,

Lamar Odom-No,drug problems too risky max talent lacks max focus.

Andre Miller- No can't get his team to win would help a team that has good players but individually not overwhelming influence on a game.could have Bibby like affect on a winner.

Elton Brand-No couldn't get Bulls any wins couldn't get loaded clips to playoffs.

Duncan -yes
Wally-Hell no
Kandi man -no but he's emerging
Shawn Marion-No but emerging
Steve Francis - Yes he's a superstar in the making
Baron Davis -Yes obvious
Bibby-No he'll get it but Kings will regret it, good player on a team of really good but gutless clutch players how is a player that averages 13 pts per or something get max I guess great playoff series.

GP-was one not anymore at his age.

 

[Thrilla]

Let me....

Let me defend Elton Brand, Mike Bibby, and Andre Miller.

Brand couldn't win any games in Chicago because of a lack of talent around him. Its hard to
try to carry a team as a rookie....its impossible(won't get calls, new teammates, etc.) His
2nd season wasn't much better. The Bulls in their 2 years when Brand was a part of them, had
went thru tone of players, way above the norm for a rebuilding team. All of the players were
of marginal talent also. One player, especially someone who is a rookie(1st season with Bulls)
or in his 2nd season, can't carry a team to many wins if he doesn't have much help.

Now in LA, its different, as he does have help. But the help their is also young(Odom, Miles,
Q, Maggette, Kandi, etc.) Many of them are still learning the game. Plus, Brand has a total
change of scenery. It takes a year to get adjusted to new teammates and their abilites. To
be fair, it is very difficult to adjust from having no help, to having almost too much help.
He has to learn a new system. Not everyone(almost no one) can adjust to that huge of a difference
in one year. He is worthy of the max, because he regularly gives the Clipz 20/10, is a major
is a legit PF in a conference where one is required to have, and is their leader.

Andre Miller- He can't make his team win, eh? Id love to see anyone make the Cavs win with
the roster they have. He alone kept them from being the worst team the past few seasons.
No one, I REPEAT no one could lead this team to the Play Offs. Andre Miller somehow managed
to lead the league in assits per game, with no real talent on his team. Kidd has KMart, Kittles,
KVH, MacCoullough, Jefferson, etc. Miller has Ricky Davis, 2 centers with feet problem, a white
stiff.....you get the idea. Is he worthy of the max? Its borderline. If he ended up in NY, or
Portland, even Dallas....yes. But he won't get it in Cleveland. He can score when needed, but
is a pass-first PG like John Stockton. True PGs like him are hard to find, and he is talented
enough IMO to get the max.

Mike Bibby- He did everything a max player needs to do in the playoffs, when the game is on the
line and his team needs the big play..........He made the big shots. He was outsatanding in
the playoffs. Sure his numbers aren't the best, but stats can lie. There is no stat for his
heart, his big plays, his big shots maken, etc. Is he worthy of the max? No, that cant be based
just on one season....but he isn't as far off as many think he is. He will be back next year
and I expect nothing less from him than last season's run.

 

[jazzy1]

Thrilla good points but let me tackle some of them , first Elton is a very good player I'd have to rate his talent as a click below the eilte pf's,Duncan,Cwebb,KG,those guys are unquestioned Max players as well as Rasheed Wallace, I really see your point when it comes to the winning I really don't like to put the whole monkey on one guys back, you're right he had nothing in Chicago and with the clips I think it has to do more with coach Gentry illogical coaching I'll say this and am not that firm on it he just doesn't appear to have franchise player ability yeah he brings 20-10 but in comparison to those other guys he just doesn't cut it, Kg plays on a team no where near as talented but always wins like I said they are other factors to consider on the clippers though,

I'm pretty much with you on BIBBY and MILLER although I rate them both below Steve Francis and Baron Davis those guys carry a team BIBBY nor MILLER can carry a team they just can help.

 

[hunterb14]

Here are my players worthy of the max RIGHT NOW(i might miss a few that deserve to be on here)

EAST

TMAC
Pierce
Carter
Chandler
Walker
Jermaine Oneal
KIDD
AI
Baron Davis
Allen


WEST

Duncan
Novitski
KG
Francis
C-WEBB
Shaq
Kobe
Marbury


i probably missed a few

 

[2010Illini]

Andre Miller definetly deserves the max, leading the league with assists and having Hill, Person , and Mihm around you, that definetly deserves the max.

I also think Bibby deserves it game 5 game winner, he was the only clutch player against LA.

Stephon Marbury, No way.

 

[Thrilla]

I agree

ELton Brand is still improving. He hasn't stopped that yet. He still has potential left.
He doesn't have unlimited potential, but you have to realize he is only 23. He is still
learning. It seems he has reached his potential because he is averaging 20/10 but that
isnt the case. He needs to start developing a better outside shot among other things.
Guys like TD, KG, CWebb....which you mentioned, have been in the league a fair amount of time.
Brand has been in the league for 3 years. He is worthy of the max IMO...

Andre Miller- I know I said he was borderline, but I think he is worthy of the max as well.
I said borderline because I couldn't tell if my own bias was getting in the way of my judgment.
To lead the league in apg with the teammates he currently has is nothing short of "Damn.."
Id take him over the flashier Francis and Davis. But thats my opinion. I prefer old-school
PG's......Gimme John Stockton in his prime over Francis, Davis, and Marbury any day. Miller
is just that...an old school PG. Stockton is the perfect example of what a PG was and IMO
should be.....Someone who iniates the offense, gets everyone involved, and lastly scores.
Stockton could score 20 points one nite if his team needed it and the next nite only get 10
because his team didn't need it. Andre is the same way, sometimes he scores, sometime he
concentrates more on getting others involved, depending on the circumstances. He will get
the max somewhere, be it NY, LaC, or elsewhere. He is the perfect PG to run many offenses.
Someone who doesn't need to score to be effective and happy. Worthy of the max? Yes.


Marbury- On the flip side, isn't. Sure, you can argue that Kidd's success has something to do
with healthy players in NJ, but then why did Marbury fail in Phx? He brought a playoff team
down to a lottery team. Marbury is talented, but not max talent. He had a bright start in
Minnesota, but has failed to live up to all of his potential. Sure, he was one of the few
players in the league to average 20 ppg and 8 apg, but that didn't result in wins.

 

[jazzy1]

I think teams need to be very careful when giving out max contracts because if they end up not being max player talents ala Vin Baker it makes it really hard to trade underachieving player, ANDRE MILLER is very solid but Francis and Davis can just take over games but you're right he's more of a traditional point guard.

No way does CHANDLER deserve the Max way to early to tell that and I don't believe J O'Neal is worthy although he has one, was outplayed badly in playoffs by Kenyon Martin.