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http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=38013108

"There are gangs everywhere in L.A. At any given time, anything could happen. I knew a lot of people that got beat up or messed with.

"It was real stressful. I remember when I went to sleep at night sometimes, I would dream about Seattle, because I never thought I would see Seattle again. I honestly thought I was in L.A. for the rest of my life."

His father's house was in a nice, middle-class neighborhood. So quite often, Crawford would just hang around there instead of going to school. Or he would wait until his father and grandmother left for work, go back home and pick up a basketball. The house had a detached garage with a long driveway, the kind that makes a solid basketball court.

"It was the back yard, so I was safe," Crawford said. "I would be out there days at a time."

Occasionally, his friends from middle school would stop by. His father, who played in college at Oregon, would shoot sometimes. But most often, Crawford had no human competition.
 

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Thanks for the bio lesson McGraw, but what is this telling us about Jamal?

That though not in the best situation, he still pressed on and eventually made himself a success?

I think there's usually a point to releasing certain information biographical information about a player that has to do with his character as an individual.

What does this say about Jamal?
 

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Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
Thanks for the bio lesson McGraw, but what is this telling us about Jamal?

That though not in the best situation, he still pressed on and eventually made himself a success?

I think there's usually a point to releasing certain information biographical information about a player that has to do with his character as an individual.

What does this say about Jamal?
Rough childhood. Taught himself the game. Came into NBA very raw. Skiles improving him.
 

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Good read. Thats often what I am trying to point out to posters is Jamal didn't have a whole lot of formal basketball training. His dad wasn't a coach, he didn't really get involved with organized basketball until he was older, as a result he isn't as developed as many expect.
 

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Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
Thanks for the bio lesson McGraw, but what is this telling us about Jamal?

That though not in the best situation, he still pressed on and eventually made himself a success?

I think there's usually a point to releasing certain information biographical information about a player that has to do with his character as an individual.

What does this say about Jamal?
Excellent question. McGraw's article on the surface seems intended to justify and/or explain JC's handles and offensive tendencies and preferences. But on a more subliminal level there's a whole lot more being said in this article about what makes Crawford tick and how he deals with difficult, aggressive issues.

The inference I drew was that though Crawford may have spent time in the 'hood, he did everything he could to avoid dealing with 'hood-related issues, including missing a lot of school and honing his basketball skills on his own in his backyard driveway instead of on the blacktop.

In terms of survival, it may have been the intelligent thing for Jamal to do. But sequestering himself from even a part-time involvement with a lifestyle that most of his peers took an "Oh well" approach to also supports the perception that some people have of him as a player who'll go to great lengths to avoid aggressive physical contact on the court.

I'm not attempting to pass judgement on him one way or another. I obviously can't say that I've "walked a mile in his shoes," because I haven't. But the fact is that the league is full of guys who came from 'hoods of their own and somehow managed to make it to and from school, play high school basketball, and go on to have successful pro careers. Jamal found a way around it. That's his nature. He's lived to tell about it so he deserves credit for finding a way to survive.

At the same time it also seems apparent that the way he handled physical confrontation in his 'hood as a teenager compares similarly to the way he deals with physical confrontation and aggression on the basketball court. In other words, if you expect him to ever start takin' it to the hole to draw contact the way a player like Iverson does, you're wasting your time. Its just not in his nature.
 

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Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!


Excellent question. McGraw's article on the surface seems intended to justify and/or explain JC's handles and offensive tendencies and preferences. But on a more subliminal level there's a whole lot more being said in this article about what makes Crawford tick and how he deals with difficult, aggressive issues.

The inference I drew was that though Crawford may have spent time in the 'hood, he did everything he could to avoid dealing with 'hood-related issues, including missing a lot of school and honing his basketball skills on his own in his backyard driveway instead of on the blacktop.

In terms of survival, it may have been the intelligent thing for Jamal to do. But sequestering himself from even a part-time involvement with a lifestyle that most of his peers took an "Oh well" approach to also supports the perception that some people have of him as a player who'll go to great lengths to avoid aggressive physical contact on the court.

I'm not attempting to pass judgement on him one way or another. I obviously can't say that I've "walked a mile in his shoes," because I haven't. But the fact is that the league is full of guys who came from 'hoods of their own and somehow managed to make it to and from school, play high school basketball, and go on to have successful pro careers. Jamal found a way around it. That's his nature. He's lived to tell about it so he deserves credit for finding a way to survive.

At the same time it also seems apparent that the way he handled physical confrontation in his 'hood as a teenager compares similarly to the way he deals with physical confrontation and aggression on the basketball court. In other words, if you expect him to ever start takin' it to the hole to draw contact the way a player like Iverson does, you're wasting your time. Its just not in his nature.

You cant possibly believe that analogy you wrote in the last paragraph. Taking it to the basket, and stayin home from school because you feared for your life are two totally different things. Just because he doesn't want to get robbed again, or worse, shot, means that he won't ever take the ball to the whole. I think you need to rethink what you wrote, blamin somebody for not going into the gang infested neighborhoods. It may just be my opinion but I believe that statement was way out of line. When your life is in danger you don't screw around with it, you get the hell out of there.
 

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Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!


Excellent question. McGraw's article on the surface seems intended to justify and/or explain JC's handles and offensive tendencies and preferences. But on a more subliminal level there's a whole lot more being said in this article about what makes Crawford tick and how he deals with difficult, aggressive issues.

The inference I drew was that though Crawford may have spent time in the 'hood, he did everything he could to avoid dealing with 'hood-related issues, including missing a lot of school and honing his basketball skills on his own in his backyard driveway instead of on the blacktop.

In terms of survival, it may have been the intelligent thing for Jamal to do. But sequestering himself from even a part-time involvement with a lifestyle that most of his peers took an "Oh well" approach to also supports the perception that some people have of him as a player who'll go to great lengths to avoid aggressive physical contact on the court.

I'm not attempting to pass judgement on him one way or another. I obviously can't say that I've "walked a mile in his shoes," because I haven't. But the fact is that the league is full of guys who came from 'hoods of their own and somehow managed to make it to and from school, play high school basketball, and go on to have successful pro careers. Jamal found a way around it. That's his nature. He's lived to tell about it so he deserves credit for finding a way to survive.

At the same time it also seems apparent that the way he handled physical confrontation in his 'hood as a teenager compares similarly to the way he deals with physical confrontation and aggression on the basketball court. In other words, if you expect him to ever start takin' it to the hole to draw contact the way a player like Iverson does, you're wasting your time. Its just not in his nature.

ummm he's been taking the ball to the basket much more lately , so if its his nature he appears to be changing , you seem to make him out to be someone who runs from things and if thats how you want to interpet it its fine just dont get mad when others interpet it differently.

for instance it seems to me Jamal himself compared his situation to Kirk in that they both had the same goal and found their way to it differently , not running away from it just taking a different path
 

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Discussion Starter #9
At the same time it also seems apparent that the way he handled physical confrontation in his 'hood as a teenager compares similarly to the way he deals with physical confrontation and aggression on the basketball court. In other words, if you expect him to ever start takin' it to the hole to draw contact the way a player like Iverson does, you're wasting your time. Its just not in his nature.
You can't fight people with guns unless you want to pull out bigger guns, and we all know where that leads. Avoidance was the right decision.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!


You can't fight people with guns unless you want to pull out bigger guns, and we all know where that leads. Avoidance was the right decision.
dont try to use reason with some people they expect Crawford to be perfect and literally bounce the bullets off his chest,what C blizzy doesn't either want to uderstand or cant understand is that for every player who makes it through such an ordeal maybe a dozen dont for similar reasons

however it happened crawford made it ...but for some it isn't enough
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


dont try to use reason with some people they expect Crawford to be perfect and literally bounce the bullets off his chest,what C blizzy doesn't either want to uderstand or cant understand is that for every player who makes it through such an ordeal maybe a dozen dont for similar reasons

however it happened crawford made it ...but for some it isn't enough
Yeah, I usually agree with Blizzy with his criticisms, but I think he's looking too hard here.
 

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Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!


Excellent question. McGraw's article on the surface seems intended to justify and/or explain JC's handles and offensive tendencies and preferences. But on a more subliminal level there's a whole lot more being said in this article about what makes Crawford tick and how he deals with difficult, aggressive issues.

The inference I drew was that though Crawford may have spent time in the 'hood, he did everything he could to avoid dealing with 'hood-related issues, including missing a lot of school and honing his basketball skills on his own in his backyard driveway instead of on the blacktop.

In terms of survival, it may have been the intelligent thing for Jamal to do. But sequestering himself from even a part-time involvement with a lifestyle that most of his peers took an "Oh well" approach to also supports the perception that some people have of him as a player who'll go to great lengths to avoid aggressive physical contact on the court.

I'm not attempting to pass judgement on him one way or another. I obviously can't say that I've "walked a mile in his shoes," because I haven't. But the fact is that the league is full of guys who came from 'hoods of their own and somehow managed to make it to and from school, play high school basketball, and go on to have successful pro careers. Jamal found a way around it. That's his nature. He's lived to tell about it so he deserves credit for finding a way to survive.

At the same time it also seems apparent that the way he handled physical confrontation in his 'hood as a teenager compares similarly to the way he deals with physical confrontation and aggression on the basketball court. In other words, if you expect him to ever start takin' it to the hole to draw contact the way a player like Iverson does, you're wasting your time. Its just not in his nature.
No offense C. Blizzy, but you definitley don't sound like someone who understands the dynamics of the hood. In this post you come off like someone who never spent a day in the ghetto.
 

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avoiding gang life shows he is smart not that he is afraid of contact and therefore will not drive to the hole. really.

but aside from all of that, what fascinates me is the TIMING of this article. why now? didn't we already know most of this stuff? and yes, he and kirk were raised in completely different environments - can't imagine anything being more opposite of "the jungle" than iowa for pete's sake. i wonder about this. sometimes too much.

so today kirk gets named a rookie all-star (and we get another story about him maybe hitting that mythical wall) AND we get a story about the hard-scrabble youth of jamal crawford and a style of play born out of necessity. am i reading too much into the timing of this? probably! but i felt inclined to point this out.
 

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Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!


Excellent question. McGraw's article on the surface seems intended to justify and/or explain JC's handles and offensive tendencies and preferences. But on a more subliminal level there's a whole lot more being said in this article about what makes Crawford tick and how he deals with difficult, aggressive issues.

The inference I drew was that though Crawford may have spent time in the 'hood, he did everything he could to avoid dealing with 'hood-related issues, including missing a lot of school and honing his basketball skills on his own in his backyard driveway instead of on the blacktop.

In terms of survival, it may have been the intelligent thing for Jamal to do. But sequestering himself from even a part-time involvement with a lifestyle that most of his peers took an "Oh well" approach to also supports the perception that some people have of him as a player who'll go to great lengths to avoid aggressive physical contact on the court.

I'm not attempting to pass judgement on him one way or another. I obviously can't say that I've "walked a mile in his shoes," because I haven't. But the fact is that the league is full of guys who came from 'hoods of their own and somehow managed to make it to and from school, play high school basketball, and go on to have successful pro careers. Jamal found a way around it. That's his nature. He's lived to tell about it so he deserves credit for finding a way to survive.

At the same time it also seems apparent that the way he handled physical confrontation in his 'hood as a teenager compares similarly to the way he deals with physical confrontation and aggression on the basketball court. In other words, if you expect him to ever start takin' it to the hole to draw contact the way a player like Iverson does, you're wasting your time. Its just not in his nature.
I think you're trying to imply something about Crawford and his upbringing and translating it to the NBA that just isn't there.

I, for one, applaud Jamal for his choices in his youth. It would have been so easy to just take the "oh well" route. He chose the harder path, the smarter path and the safer path. I don't see the correlation of his not wanting his head blown off with his lack of taking contact in the NBA. For Crawford it's still a learning process. These last few games, he's been more aggressive going inside and he's actaully starting to draw contact and get to the line. Maybe he's figuring out that he can, in fact, take the hit and continue to play. If anything, this type of story tells me the kid knows how to persevere and what type of character he's got.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!


You can't fight people with guns unless you want to pull out bigger guns, and we all know where that leads. Avoidance was the right decision.
Then how did other kids find a way to make it to and from school? I am in no way suggesting that Crawford acted cowardly. But the article never suggested that he had a bullseye painted on his back. He wasn't being singled out. Was staying home and missing school really the right decision? I'll bet that if you took the time to interview other kids who attended Dorsey High School at that time, you'd find out that getting ripped off by gangsters was pretty commonplace (" When Crawford got inside and told his classmates that he'd just been robbed, they reacted with shrugs and yawns - "Welcome to the neighborhood.").

Again, the world is filled with hawks and doves and people who fall somewhere inbetween. Is one type of personality right and the other wrong? Hell no. All I'm suggesting is that his solution to the neighborhood situation was to extricate himself. His nature was to avoid physical confrontation. There's nothing wrong with that. But a non-aggressive nature can be a hinderence in the sporting world. We've seen examples of that in all sports where very talented players never reach their potential because the competition on a whole carries a bigger mean streak around than they do.
 

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McGraw left out the fact that Crawford used to walk out of Michigan practices and once got into a physical altercation w/ the assistant coach.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
His nature was to avoid physical confrontation. There's nothing wrong with that. But a non-aggressive nature can be a hinderence in the sporting world. We've seen examples of that in all sports where very talented players never reach their potential because the competition on a whole carries a bigger mean streak around than they do.
Where are you drawing the conclusion that his motivation was to avoid physical confrontation? I know he mentions he knew a lot of people that got beaten up, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Gangs promote a culture of death. This is not some pimply class bully we're talking about here.

Yes, it would have been good for Jamal to find a way to go to school, but in general I find this observation staggeringly short sighted.
 

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I would like to point the huge difference between a pyhsical atlercation(like JC at Mich.) and the armed robbery that occured to crawford outside of dorsey high school .

this is not something like curry never being in a fight , this is more like your chain or your life.

i think most people on this thread get the difference ....but still the lines seemed to be a lil' blurred for others
 

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Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
I would like to point the huge difference between a pyhsical atlercation(like JC at Mich.) and the armed robbery that occured to crawford outside of dorsey high school .

this is not something like curry never being in a fight , this is more like your chain or your life.

i think most people on this thread get the difference ....but still the lines seemed to be a lil' blurred for others
I wasn't comparing the two. Thanks for trolling.
 

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Who gives a rat's ***?

Does this article shed some light on Jamal and why he's the way he is? Sure.

But people aren't locked into who they will be by who they were when they were 12 or 14. I mean yeah, obviously people are very strongly influenced by that, and very strongly influenced by their genes as well. Nature and nurture.

But what amazes me (and I see this a lot in academics) is a foolhardy belief that if you know a given factor you can predict with a high level of certainty a particular outcome.

Fact is, you just can't. Take an abstract example- IQ tests. Modern day tests are pretty accurate and all that balony you hear about "cultural bias" and stuff like that is pretty much out there. And the tests are statistically good predictors of what kind of educational achievement (and other achievment) folks might enjoy.

But even with all of that, they're still averages and there's enough of a disparity and enough outliers to make any given individual nervous about being lumped in with a given group. People with high IQs often fail at all kinds of things, people with lower IQs often succeed at all kinds of things. Concluding how a particular individual will perform in reality based on single factor like that is not likely a good way to go about things. Human beings can be averaged into all kinds of groups, but any particular member of the group is unlikely to reflect the average in any consistent way.

Bringing this back to Jamal, unless a good offer comes along though, we're stuck with him, both his flaws and his benefits. Yeah, obviously his nature and prior experience probably works against him in the situations of playing "agressive basketball". But we aren't talking about rocket science either. We're talking about learning and getting better at a game. A game he's already pretty good at.

Sometimes he looks like a clueless and lazy slacker who doesn't know how to play defense or organized ball. But other times he looks pretty good. It's not (and almost never) too late for him to go further in either direction.
 
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