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Due to a large volume of cards, letters, donations and general public outcry (ok, two people), I have decided to make this new thread. This will be a place where we can discuss all things metal. I'm not sure how many metal fans there are on here (the boards seem to be dominated by rap fans), but this thread is for you. As you can tell by the name, this thread is inspired by Metallica, which makes total sense, considering they are the epitome of metal (pre-haircuts, at least). I'd expect most of the conversation will revolve around them, but they're certainly not the only thing we can/will talk about. Having said that, we'll start with the topic that prompted this whole thread in the first place...

Which is the better album: Master of Puppets or ...And Justice For All? This is a subject that most Metallica fans I know still debate often, and the answer can vary depending on the day and which album you most recently listened to. Both albums have their reasons for being considered the best. Since it came first, I'll start with Master...

Master of Puppets is not only the best Metallica album but the definitive metal album with the definitive metal song of the same name. It's the guys' peak of musicianship. Ride the Lightning had the same style and feel but Master had much better production and more refined songwriting. Not only is every track good, every track is great. It starts kicking your *** with Battery and ends kicking your *** even harder with Damage. But, the track that put Metallica on the map is Master. When people call songs "epic", this is what they mean. Battery and Damage both start out slow and build to kick-*** heavy riffs. Master, on the other hand, comes right out, throws thrash in your face and blows you away. Having said that, my favorite track is probably Disposable Heroes, partly because it's never been overplayed. But, like I said, there is no weakness on this album. No track too long. It's as close to perfect as any metal album has ever been. You can't not own this album and call yourself a metal fan. It's like a jazz fan saying he doesn't own Kind of Blue. It's just not possible.

On the other hand, there's ...And Justice For All, Metallica's next album. This is definitely a far different sounding album than anything previous. The first thing you notice is the weird, dry sound of the drums and guitars. James has said they turned the Mids all the way down on this album and that's what gave it that sound. A lot of people criticized it at first because it was so different, but eventually they got past that and realized how awesome the songs are. I think this album has an even darker and more-menacing feel than any others and the production has a lot to do with it. It starts with Blackened, which, in my opinion, is the hardest Metallica song to play in-time and up to speed on guitar (I used to be able to play Master up to speed but never this). By far, the biggest hit on this album and of Metallica's career at the time is One. Master of Puppets put Metallica on the map, but One made them huge (partly because they released their first video for it). One is another epic with one of the most familiar and hardest riffs ever. Unfortunately, this put them on MTV and many think that's what ultimately led to their eventual pussification (I think Bob Rock is most to blame, but that's for another day).

Out of these two, I have to go with Master as being the best, but I listen to ...And Justice just as much, if not more, so it has it's merits. Bottom line, you can't go wrong with either one, but it's interesting to discuss the differences. If anyone wants to add their opinions, I'd love to hear em.
 

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I usually pick Master Of Puppets over Slayer's Reign In Blood , but I'm one of the few that say that Slayer's Show No Mercy is better than Kill 'Em All .

I think the only true materpiece song on KEA is Four Horsemen. "Whiplash" "Jump In the Fire" and "Seek and Destroy" maybe classics, but I don't think they stand a chance to "The Antichrist" "Die By The Sword" or "Black Magic". I still get chills hearing the opening to the song "Face The Slayer". I think the Bulls should do that song for their player announcements instead of the Alan Parsons song, but that's just me! :rock:
 

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I'm one of the few, but personally I find RTL and KEA to be better albums than MOP and JFA. I just think Metallica fell into a bit of a creative rut after RTL. Sure, there were still the brilliant songs as Battery and Master of Puppets can attest to, but then you get the clunkers such as Disposable Heroes. Now I'm not sure if this was simply a natural creative drought, or they simply ran out of Mustaine riff's to mooch off, but after RTL, each album continually regressed in quality.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
I'm one of the few, but personally I find RTL and KEA to be better albums than MOP and JFA. I just think Metallica fell into a bit of a creative rut after RTL. Sure, there were still the brilliant songs as Battery and Master of Puppets can attest to, but then you get the clunkers such as Disposable Heroes. Now I'm not sure if this was simply a natural creative drought, or they simply ran out of Mustaine riff's to mooch off, but after RTL, each album continually regressed in quality.
You're certainly in the minority with your opinion but you obviously have the right to it. I just happen to totally disagree. Kill Em All and Ride sound like warmups to me compared to Master and And Justice. There is something to be said about the rawness of both of those albums, but I don't think either stands up to the latter two.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Originally posted by <b>Electric Slim</b>!
I usually pick Master Of Puppets over Slayer's Reign In Blood , but I'm one of the few that say that Slayer's Show No Mercy is better than Kill 'Em All .

I think the only true materpiece song on KEA is Four Horsemen. "Whiplash" "Jump In the Fire" and "Seek and Destroy" maybe classics, but I don't think they stand a chance to "The Antichrist" "Die By The Sword" or "Black Magic". I still get chills hearing the opening to the song "Face The Slayer". I think the Bulls should do that song for their player announcements instead of the Alan Parsons song, but that's just me! :rock:
I pretty much agree with you as far as Kill Em All, but you can't tell me you didn't think the opening riff in Seek and Destroy wasn't the baddest-***, most evil riff ever when you first heard it! Right? Four Horseman is indeed the best song on that album, though.

Reign in Blood is a great album, but it doesn't match Master's consistentcy (sidenote: if any of you ever played Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, you'll remember Raining Blood on the soundtrack). I do agree Show No Mercy is very comparable, if not better, than Kill Em All. KEA is a weak album, in my opinion. No Remorse is just a bad song. Something you don't find on any of their next three albums.

This Slayer talk reminds me I need to post my top 10 metal albums of all-time tomorrow.
 

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This Slayer talk reminds me I need to post my top 10 metal albums of all-time tomorrow.
Here's the best handful outside of the Big 4 (Metallica, Slayer, Anthrax, Megadeth)

12 essential 80's Thrash/Speed albums

Celtic Frost - To Mega Therion

Possessed - Seven Churches

Helloween - Walls Of Jericho

Nuclear Assault - Survive

Annihilator - Alice In Hell

Sepultura - Beneath The Remains

Voivod - Dimension Hatross

Carnivore - Retalliatiion

Sacred Reich - Ignorance

S.O.D. - Speak English Or Die

Exodus - Fabulous Disaster

Testament - The Legacy
 

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Ouch! Fabolous Disaster over Bonded by Blood? Didn't expect that, heh. I'm not sure I would usher Celtic Frost and Possessed in the thrash genre either. I haven't heard of Carnivore or Sacred Reich either. I'll have to check it out. All around good stuff in the list though.

Anyways, here's are some other very good thrash albums to check out that aren't part of the "big 4".

Kreator- Extreme Aggression
Sodom- Agent Orange
Forbidden- Forbidden Evil
Heathen- Victims of Deception
Dark Angel- Darkness Descends
Morbid Saint- Spectrum of Death
Vio-lence- The Eternal Nightmare
Overkill- Taking Over
Destruction- The Antichrist
Flotsam and Jetsam- Doomsday for the Deceiver
Death Angel- The Ultraviolence
 

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Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
Ouch! Fabolous Disaster over Bonded by Blood? Didn't expect that, heh. I'm not sure I would usher Celtic Frost and Possessed in the thrash genre either. I haven't heard of Carnivore or Sacred Reich either. I'll have to check it out. All around good stuff in the list though.

Anyways, here's are some other very good thrash albums to check out that aren't part of the "big 4".

Kreator- Extreme Aggression
Sodom- Agent Orange
Forbidden- Forbidden Evil
Heathen- Victims of Deception
Dark Angel- Darkness Descends
Morbid Saint- Spectrum of Death
Vio-lence- The Eternal Nightmare
Overkill- Taking Over
Destruction- The Antichrist
Flotsam and Jetsam- Doomsday for the Deceiver
Death Angel- The Ultraviolence
1. Paul Baloff is easily one of the worst singers I've ever heard. He was a good performer but, uughhh.

2. Thrash or Speed or whatever. I'm just talking between Maiden and Napalm Death

3. You haven't heard of Sacred Reich or Carnivore? Did your parents not let you watch Headbangers Ball on Saturday nights?

4. The Antichrist? Not an album form Destruction's heyday?

Yyzlin, I luv ya more than The Horned One Himself ( :devil2: ) but this post is whack! :laugh:
 

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Originally posted by <b>Electric Slim</b>!
1. Paul Baloff is easily one of the worst singers I've ever heard. He was a good performer but, uughhh.
It's THRASH! I don't expect much from the vocal department anyways. I know some people have issues with Baloff's voice, but I find it pretty palatable. Plus, the actual music, Slim! Fabolous Disaster is a fine album, as is Pleasures of the Flesh, but they just don't compare with the thrash masterpeice that is Bonded by Blood.
2. Thrash or Speed or whatever. I'm just talking between Maiden and Napalm Death
Fair enough.
3. You haven't heard of Sacred Reich or Carnivore? Did your parents not let you watch Headbangers Ball on Saturday nights?
I'm 17. Headbangers Ball stopped airing around when I was 4. ;) I'll make sure to check them out though.

4. The Antichrist? Not an album form Destruction's heyday?
I actually find Antichrist to be there best album, so meh. Different tastes I guess.

Yyzlin, I luv ya more than The Horned One Himself ( :devil2: ) but this post is whack! :laugh:
Being whack is what metal is all about!!!! :grinning:
 

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Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!



I'm 17. Headbangers Ball stopped airing around when I was 4. ;) I'll make sure to check them out though.
Whaa???? I pegged you for mid 20's. Well, major ups then!

Go to All Music Guide and check those albums out!

BTW - Possessed - Seven Churches easily makes the top 5 on any 80's metal list. It's absolutely jaw-dropping, and they were your age when they did it (Larry Lalonde from Primus played lead).
 

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Originally posted by <b>Electric Slim</b>!


Whaa???? I pegged you for mid 20's. Well, major ups then!
Heh, yeah, I guess I know a bit more about music than most people my age.

BTW - Possessed - Seven Churches easily makes the top 5 on any 80's metal list. It's absolutely jaw-dropping, and they were your age when they did it (Larry Lalonde from Primus played lead).
Of course I know Possessed! You're dissing my metalness here, Slim. :D It's such a landmark album for death metal, and one excellent slab of music as well.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Electric Slim</b>!


An understatement!
Oh stop it, you're making me blush. *giggles like a school girl

But honestly, there are many people my age who know lots about music. Look at HearToTemptYou. He's 18, and I would definately say he knows more about music than me, albeit in different genres.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!

Look at HearToTemptYou. He's 18, and I would definately say he knows more about music than me, albeit in different genres.
Yeah, but he doesn't own one Helloween album so what is he worth? :laugh:

j/k HTTY :grinning:
 

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Originally posted by <b>Electric Slim</b>!


Yeah, but he doesn't own one Helloween album so what is he worth? :laugh:

j/k HTTY :grinning:
I will as soon as they start showing up in the 50 cent record bin at my local music store.

(The records in the 50 cent bin aren't there because they are bad... they are usually there because they are quite worn out, and they can't sell them otherwise. I always look for the well worn albums because I know that someone must have really liked the album to wear it out like that. I've turned my self on to all sorts of music I wouldn't have otherwise listened to this way.)
 

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Which is the better album: Master of Puppets or ...And Justice For All? This is a subject that most Metallica fans I know still debate often, and the answer can vary depending on the day and which album you most recently listened to. Both albums have their reasons for being considered the best. Since it came first, I'll start with Master...

Master of Puppets is not only the best Metallica album but the definitive metal album with the definitive metal song of the same name. It's the guys' peak of musicianship. Ride the Lightning had the same style and feel but Master had much better production and more refined songwriting. Not only is every track good, every track is great. It starts kicking your *** with Battery and ends kicking your *** even harder with Damage. But, the track that put Metallica on the map is Master. When people call songs "epic", this is what they mean. Battery and Damage both start out slow and build to kick-*** heavy riffs. Master, on the other hand, comes right out, throws thrash in your face and blows you away. Having said that, my favorite track is probably Disposable Heroes, partly because it's never been overplayed. But, like I said, there is no weakness on this album. No track too long. It's as close to perfect as any metal album has ever been. You can't not own this album and call yourself a metal fan. It's like a jazz fan saying he doesn't own Kind of Blue. It's just not possible.

On the other hand, there's ...And Justice For All, Metallica's next album. This is definitely a far different sounding album than anything previous. The first thing you notice is the weird, dry sound of the drums and guitars. James has said they turned the Mids all the way down on this album and that's what gave it that sound. A lot of people criticized it at first because it was so different, but eventually they got past that and realized how awesome the songs are. I think this album has an even darker and more-menacing feel than any others and the production has a lot to do with it. It starts with Blackened, which, in my opinion, is the hardest Metallica song to play in-time and up to speed on guitar (I used to be able to play Master up to speed but never this). By far, the biggest hit on this album and of Metallica's career at the time is One. Master of Puppets put Metallica on the map, but One made them huge (partly because they released their first video for it). One is another epic with one of the most familiar and hardest riffs ever. Unfortunately, this put them on MTV and many think that's what ultimately led to their eventual pussification (I think Bob Rock is most to blame, but that's for another day).

Out of these two, I have to go with Master as being the best, but I listen to ...And Justice just as much, if not more, so it has it's merits. Bottom line, you can't go wrong with either one, but it's interesting to discuss the differences. If anyone wants to add their opinions, I'd love to hear em.
Between those 2 albums, i'd have to say MOP is easily the best.
Although none of it's tunes can equal the mastery of the song One, it's a much better balanced album quality-regarding (sp?): Battery, MOP, Welcome home, Orion are all great tunes, and Leper Messiah has a great beat to it. In JFA case, the only tune i'd select for a Metallica greatest hits would be One.

I haven't heard JFA in years, now, while MOP is always near my CD player.

I'd also say RTL is a better album then JFA.

Obviously, regarding Metallica, one album that gets no love is Kill'em All. Yes, it was the first, and the band hadn't still find their groove. The editing isn't great. Still, numerous great tracks in Pulling Teeth, Whiplash, Seek&Destroy, The four horsemen...
 
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