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Discussion Starter #1
Over the past few weeks I've become annoyed by comments centered around Michael Jordan as a GM. It seems rather popular to poke fun at Jordan for picking Kwame Brown with the first overall pick in the 2001 draft. Stephan A. Smith took his shots last night with a comment and NBA fans alike frequently take their shots. I understand Jordan is the GOAT and basically has no flaws when it comes to basketball which is why people feel a need to poke fun at him. However, this needs to stop, as in hindsight everyone is a genius. It seems in 2001 most people including Jordan believed Kwame Brown was the best pick at #1, so please stop the hate.


nbadraft.net said:
NBA Comparison: Kevin Garnett
Overal ratingl: 111

Strengths: Like Garnett, KB has freakish athleticism. Already bulkier than Garnett and could turn into more of a Webber type post player. Very graceful running the floor. Tremendous leaping aility. Passes and handles extraordinarily well for a 6-11 player. May still be growing. Touch on shots is excellent, and should only improve. Post game is solid. Very good shot blocker.

Weaknesses: Inconsistency. Like any 18 year old coming straight to the league will take his lumps and see plenty of pine. Some have questions about his competiveness.
Notice the 111 overall rating nbadraft.net game Kwame. For comparison Amare Stoudemire's rating was an 98 and Eddy Curry's was 109 and Pau Gasol was a 106. So it seems Jordan wasn't the only one drinking the Kwame Kool-Aid.

CNNSI.com said:
Brown signed with Florida, but agonized for months about whether to turn pro. In the end, his desire to help his mother financially was the key factor. If he becomes a top-five pick, he could make more than enough to do that. Considered along with Tyson Chandler to be the most polished of the high school players bypassing college for the draft, he can catch and shoot facing the basket, has good footwork and a great frame. His defense needs work, but his package of skills will make him a hot property.
No comment.......

1. Washington Wizards Kwame Brown
2. Los Angeles Clippers Tyson Chandler
3. Atlanta Hawks Pau Gasol
4. Chicago Bulls Eddy Curry
5. Golden State Warriors Jason Richardson
6. Memphis Grizzlies Shane Battier
7. New Jersey Nets Eddie Griffin
8. Cleveland Cavaliers DeSagana Diop
9. Detroit Pistons Rodney White
10. Boston Celtics Joe Johnson

Besides, look at this draft. During the time Kwame was selected he was widely considered to be the most talented and the player with the most potential to be great. Tyson and Eddy were considered to be the second and third best highschool prospects respectively at the time. No one thought Pau would come into the league and have an immediate impact let alone win the ROY. During the time the Wizards already had Richard Hamilton, a young Courtney Alexander and an impending Jordan playing the sg/sf spot, so Richardson and Joe Johnson weren't needed. Shane Battier was considered to be a role player and nothing more (and he hasn't dissapointed), Eddie Griffin was a character risk (and he hasn't dissapointed). Diop was a project (and he hasn't dissapointed) and Rodney White came from Charlotte and wasn't expected to become nothing worthy of a #1 overall pick (is he even in the league now?). This leaves Kwame Brown as the clear #1 choice and Jordan selected him. At the time Kwame was the best prospect on the board at #1.

So please stop the Jordan hate.
 

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:clap: :clap:

Nice post, and I agree. Anyone put at the #1 spot would have taken Kwame over everyone. Kwame was a player with so much potential, any GM who did not take him, would have been fired.
 

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it wasnt the choice, it was his idea to come back and suit up for the wiz, that hurts his reputation as a GM. it hurt the progression of kwame. granted kwame anywhere else might have not progressed just as he didnt progress at washington but jordan coming back, lashing out at him in public and in front of the team sure didnt help his progression.
 

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DuMa said:
it wasnt the choice, it was his idea to come back and suit up for the wiz, that hurts his reputation as a GM. it hurt the progression of kwame. granted kwame anywhere else might have not progressed just as he didnt progress at washington but jordan coming back, lashing out at him in public and in front of the team sure didnt help his progression.
Have to agree here. Who cares if he drafts a bust, that happens all the time to people in the draft, its how he handled it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
DuMa said:
it wasnt the choice, it was his idea to come back and suit up for the wiz, that hurts his reputation as a GM. it hurt the progression of kwame. granted kwame anywhere else might have not progressed just as he didnt progress at washington but jordan coming back, lashing out at him in public and in front of the team sure didnt help his progression.
I disagree, as whenever someone talks about Jordan and the draft they always bring up Jordan picking Kwame with the overall #1 pick, as if he was the only GM who would have done it. They then proceed to poke fun at the pick. They never mention Jordan playing being the reason for Kwame being a bust due to the fact that it's a ludicrious assesment. Jordan playing had nothing to do with Kwame's progression and proof of this can be seen in Kwame's play after Jordan's retirement and his play with the Lakers. The only reason Kwame has marginally improved is due to him being older and wiser and having played in the league for a few years now; however, his still is a stiff.

rdm2 said:
Have to agree here. Who cares if he drafts a bust, that happens all the time to people in the draft, its how he handled it.
How Jordan handled him is an entirely different issue seperate from the hate he recieves for actually selecting Kwame Brown. I don't hear people saying, "Poor Kwame, Jordan was really mean to him, which is why Kwame is bust!"
 

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Obviously in retrospect any of the next three picks wouldve been better than Kwame. If the Wizards had Pau Gasol they may even be championship contenders. But there wasnt hindsight then and pretty much any other GM wouldve picked Kwame. In my opinion Kwame was going to turn into a bust wherever he went, but Jordan probably did hurt his self esteem a lot and make him even worse than he wouldve been.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
lessthanjake said:
Obviously in retrospect any of the next three picks wouldve been better than Kwame. If the Wizards had Pau Gasol they may even be championship contenders. But there wasnt hindsight then and pretty much any other GM wouldve picked Kwame. In my opinion Kwame was going to turn into a bust wherever he went, but Jordan probably did hurt his self esteem a lot and make him even worse than he wouldve been.
So 5 years later Kwame is still suffering from Jordan's wrath? I highly doubt it. I'll give it to those who said Jordan didn't handle him well, but come on it's 5 years later and he still has only improved marginally. The excuse worked about 4 years ago, but now it seems moot if you ask me. Besides the Jordan doesn't receive hate for how he handled Kwame, but for him actually selecting him.
 

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ralaw said:
How Jordan handled him is an entirely different issue seperate from the hate he recieves for actually selecting Kwame Brown. I don't hear people saying, "Poor Kwame, Jordan was really mean to him, which is why Kwame is bust!"
Where have you been? There is constant talk about how Kwame's confidence was destroyed by Jordan's belittling of him all over the place. You try to live up to the expectations of the greatest player of all time as he calls you a piece of garbage and tell me your confidence isn't shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
rdm2 said:
Where have you been? There is constant talk about how Kwame's confidence was destroyed by Jordan's belittling of him all over the place. You try to live up to the expectations of the greatest player of all time as he calls you a piece of garbage and tell me your confidence isn't shot.
That is fine, but that is more of a "knee jerk reaction" to people ridiculing Jordan for actually selecting Kwame Brown, as it just adds more validation to their claims of Jordan being a poor GM. I don't doubt that his confidence was hurt by Jordan (at the time), but I do doubt that it effects him 5 years later on the Lakers. It's rather laughable to assume because of Jordan's treatment Kwame was a bust. So I ask you, why hasn't Kwame panned out 5 years later (without Jordan for the last 4)?
 

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How is Kwame's confidence destroyed by Jordan, but not by Phil calling him a p***y in front of the media?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Zero Hero said:
How is Kwame's confidence destroyed by Jordan, but not by Phil calling him a p***y in front of the media?
Exactly, but it seems the people using the arugment of Jordan hurting his self esteem (poor Kwame) are using an argument from 2001-02. 5 years later and still being a stiff this arugment holds no weight for Kwame.
 

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ralaw said:
So 5 years later Kwame is still suffering from Jordan's wrath? I highly doubt it. I'll give it to those who said Jordan didn't handle him well, but come on it's 5 years later and he still has only improved marginally. The excuse worked about 4 years ago, but now it seems moot if you ask me. Besides the Jordan doesn't receive hate for how he handled Kwame, but for him actually selecting him.
Jordan severely hurt Kwame's self esteem and made him IMO not have a joy for the game of basketball. It hurt his play a good deal. But as I said, he still wouldve been a bust anywhere. He just wasnt as good as advertised. He is getting better now that hes away from Jordan though.

And I have no problem with Jordan picking Kwame. He was supposed to be amazing. Too bad for me that he wasnt cause I am a Wizards fan.
 

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ralaw said:
Over the past few weeks I've become annoyed by comments centered around Michael Jordan as a GM. It seems rather popular to poke fun at Jordan for picking Kwame Brown with the first overall pick in the 2001 draft. Stephan A. Smith took his shots last night with a comment and NBA fans alike frequently take their shots. I understand Jordan is the GOAT and basically has no flaws when it comes to basketball which is why people feel a need to poke fun at him. However, this needs to stop, as in hindsight everyone is a genius. It seems in 2001 most people including Jordan believed Kwame Brown was the best pick at #1, so please stop the hate.




Notice the 111 overall rating nbadraft.net game Kwame. For comparison Amare Stoudemire's rating was an 98 and Eddy Curry's was 109 and Pau Gasol was a 106. So it seems Jordan wasn't the only one drinking the Kwame Kool-Aid.



No comment.......

1. Washington Wizards Kwame Brown
2. Los Angeles Clippers Tyson Chandler
3. Atlanta Hawks Pau Gasol
4. Chicago Bulls Eddy Curry
5. Golden State Warriors Jason Richardson
6. Memphis Grizzlies Shane Battier
7. New Jersey Nets Eddie Griffin
8. Cleveland Cavaliers DeSagana Diop
9. Detroit Pistons Rodney White
10. Boston Celtics Joe Johnson

Besides, look at this draft. During the time Kwame was selected he was widely considered to be the most talented and the player with the most potential to be great. Tyson and Eddy were considered to be the second and third best highschool prospects respectively at the time. No one thought Pau would come into the league and have an immediate impact let alone win the ROY. During the time the Wizards already had Richard Hamilton, a young Courtney Alexander and an impending Jordan playing the sg/sf spot, so Richardson and Joe Johnson weren't needed. Shane Battier was considered to be a role player and nothing more (and he hasn't dissapointed), Eddie Griffin was a character risk (and he hasn't dissapointed). Diop was a project (and he hasn't dissapointed) and Rodney White came from Charlotte and wasn't expected to become nothing worthy of a #1 overall pick (is he even in the league now?). This leaves Kwame Brown as the clear #1 choice and Jordan selected him. At the time Kwame was the best prospect on the board at #1.

So please stop the Jordan hate.
My man relaw, co-sign.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
lessthanjake said:
Jordan severely hurt Kwame's self esteem and made him IMO not have a joy for the game of basketball. It hurt his play a good deal. But as I said, he still wouldve been a bust anywhere. He just wasnt as good as advertised. He is getting better now that hes away from Jordan though.
If you believe Kwame was going to be a bust regarldless of the situation than you can't blame Jordan for hurting his selfesteem and helping in causing him to be a bust. This argument makes no sense. Kwame isn't better because Jordan isn't around him.....Please...... people this isn't junior highschool! Kwame is better because he is in his 6th year in the league; with time comes experience and understanding.
 

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I am glad someone said it, that was a bad draft and others would have taken Kwame the other guys they were considering was Rodney White would that hav been better. Plus he traded for Bobby Simmons in the 2nd who eventually truned into a good player once given minutes so he can notice talent.
 

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ralaw said:
If you believe Kwame was going to be a bust regarldless of the situation than you can't blame Jordan for hurting his selfesteem and helping in causing him to be a bust. This argument makes no sense. Kwame isn't better because Jordan isn't around him.....Please...... people this isn't junior highschool! Kwame is better because he is in his 6th year in the league; with time comes experience and understanding.
He wouldve been a bust but not AS big a bust. Thats not that hard to understand man. And dont get me wrong I am a big MJ fan and have defended him on this to other people, but the fact of the matter is when youve got the GOAT telling you you suck and are the reason the team isnt making the playoffs day in and day out you are gonna just want to crawl in a hole.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
lessthanjake said:
He wouldve been a bust but not AS big a bust. Thats not that hard to understand man. And dont get me wrong I am a big MJ fan and have defended him on this to other people, but the fact of the matter is when youve got the GOAT telling you you suck and are the reason the team isnt making the playoffs day in and day out you are gonna just want to crawl in a hole.


What is that supposed to mean? That makes no sense, as a bust is a bust. So because of Jordan, Kwame Brown will forever be an even a bigger bust than what he was destined to be? I find that to be comical at best. Besides, if you believe Jordan caused Kwame to be a "bigger bust" then what he was supposed to be, than you have to also believe playing under the tutelage of Phil Jackson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar should cause "The Wrath of the Jordan curse" to be reversed due to them working on his selfesteem.
 

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ralaw said:
Exactly, but it seems the people using the arugment of Jordan hurting his self esteem (poor Kwame) are using an argument from 2001-02. 5 years later and still being a stiff this arugment holds no weight for Kwame.
Yeah, it's getting old and I question the impact it had in the first place anyway. Kwame Brown's PER in the seasons following Jordan's departure:

2004 15.7
2005 10.4
2006 11.7

So I guess what happened in 2005 was that, after a year of blocking it out, Brown began having nightmares of what Jordan said to him several years earlier.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hoopla said:
Yeah, it's getting old and I question the impact it had in the first place anyway. Kwame Brown's PER in the seasons following Jordan's departure:

2004 15.7
2005 10.4
2006 11.7

So I guess what happened in 2005 was that, after a year of blocking it out, Brown began having nightmares of what Jordan said to him several years earlier.

LOL, it seems people on this board think Jordan's wrath was of biblical proportions as it relates to Kwame's career. Poor Kwame...he didn't even see it coming and still hasn't 5 years later! :cry:
 

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Like it or not: Kwame is a bust and Jordan drafted him. Just because he was highly rated doesn't excuse that essential fact.

Ala the Raptors should get credit for drafting Charlie V even though he wasn't as rated highly and the converse should be true as well. It's the job of the GM to make the tough decisions. IF Jordan's other moves were solid then people can forget the pick (ala Dumars drafting Darko but getting guys like Billups, and Wallace essentially he is allowed a mistake or two). But Jordan's other decisions were poor as well (i.e. trading for Stackhouse) and so the he isn't given the latitude for the Brown pick and he shouldn't have that latitude
 
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