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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
OK I'll probably get ragged for this - but I was bored with there not being much news around lately

Anyway .. ( assuming trade when players that have recently been acquired like Kukoc can be traded )

Chi trades :

Fizer, Crawford, ERob, Bags Hoiberg and Baxter ( S and T'd ) to Milwaukee

for :

Toni Kukoc, Michael Redd ( signed to start at $5M ) Joel Przybilla and the draft rights to Dan Gadzuric

This shaves $2.5M off a current $54M payroll for Milwaukee and gets them to $51.5M - but with Melvin Ely counting against the cap - they go back up to $53M

So... Milwaukee instigates follow up trades :

Mason for Yogi Stewart ( their contracts run for the same length ) This saves the Bucks $800K and gets gives the Raps some productivity for the money they are shelling out and a PF slot filled as AD will be playing a lot of Center with the Dream being uncertain.

Cassell and Jason Caffey for Ron Mercer and Jamal Tinsley This saves the Bucks a further $1.6M , provides the Pacers with an upgrade at PG and a solid dependable banger styled vet at PF back up behind Jermaine and provides an alternative to the more finesse/athletic based Jeff Foster ( who would still rotate at PF/C back up ) Pacers just bet a bit deeper upfront and clear the jam out of the back court by moving Mercer

Bulls

Curry/Przybilla/Gadzuric
Chandler/Marshall /Blount
Rose / Kukoc
Redd/Hassell
Jay/Mason/Brunson

We upgrade and deepen upfront , we add a quality 2 to pair with Trent at 2 , Kukoc backs Rose up at SF - two point forwards that help lighten the load on Jay with Jamal being moved. We also get out from under ERob's contract sooner freeing more salary cap space over time .

We probably just need to add one more shooter into the mix at the minimum - say Dan Langhi or Scott Padgett ( if you could get him for the minimum )

Bucks

Johnson/ Bagaric / Yogi
Fizer/Ely/Baxter
Thomas/ERob
Allen/Mercer
Crawford/Tinsley/Ollie

These moves shave $5.5M off their payroll to leave 12 players at the NBA minimum number of roster spots at $50.4M - possibly with room to sign another PF banger type for the minimum to help shore up this position - They literally save several millions $15M+ which would please Senator Herb + they get nice young talent back in a semi rebuild in Jamal, Tinlsey, ERob and Fizer and find a way to feature their young draft pick , Melvin Ely into their rotation

The downside is is that they remain thin upfront ( which thy were before anyway ) and they would presumably address this in the next draft

Raps

AD/Montross/Mamadou
Mase/JYD/MichaelBradley
Mo/C.Jeffries
Vince/Hunter
Alvin/Hunter

Same squad as before just sub Mase in for Yogi

Pacers

Brad/Foster/Brezec
Jermaine/ Caffey/Croshere
Al/Bender
Reggie/ Artest/ Freddie J
Cassell/ EStrick/Brewer

Pacers just upgrade with vets - particularly at the point guard position ( Cassell is value at $4.5M over time he is tied up for ) and Caffey subs for Mercer which frees a logjam at the swing position and provides depth upfront where an honest tolier like Caffey could come in handy ( even if he is overpaid )

Any and all comments ( including the abuse ) is welcome









:grinning:
 

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this makes no sence basicly you are giving away some good young players for a free agent why?? have you checked this on the trade checker ???? why do the bulls need gadzuric and prezibilla and redd would not start on the bulls right now .... i think that you would have to sub hanslip for prezibilla keep Kukoc and take our craw and you might have a deal
 

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Not so sure bout the trade, but I really do like Michael Redd. He filled in nicely when Allen was out last season.

But as with any new trade scenarios, the chances are slim and none and slim just exited the building....

Maybe we can swing something before the trade deadline again this year. Redd would be a great 2 for us.


VD
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Originally posted by <b>Coldchi2</b>!
have you checked this on the trade checker ????
It complies

why do the bulls need gadzuric and prezibilla
Deepens our front line and provides more back up firepower than Bagaric

and redd would not start on the bulls right now
You sure about that ?

Jalen at 3 and Redd at 2 backed up by Hassell and Kukoc works for me

.... i think that you would have to sub hanslip for prezibilla keep Kukoc and take our craw and you might have a deal
And you were querying me about CBA compliance?
 

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It's not a horrible trade, but theres no way Redd is as good as Crawford- not even close. I think we need to remember that the grass always seems greener on the other side of the hill. Redd's a solid backup at best- not a possible future star like JC.
 

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Sorry, FJ, but as much as I love Toni, I can't see giving up JC to get him.

I'd much rather see the following trade:

Bulls send: Fizer, ERob, Hoiberg and Bags to Phoenix

Suns send: Penny, Voskuhl, a lottery-protected 1st-rounder, a 2nd-rounder, and $3 mil to Chicago


Penny's only 31, and IMO he'd be great off the bench for 30 min/game as he can play 1/2/3. He'd give us 15/4/4 with 1.5 stl at worst, and he'd contend for 6th man of the year. His contract has 4 years left, just like ERob's, only I have no doubt that we'd get more production out of Penny than we will out of ERob.

Penny has lots of playoff experience, and if Rose was to go down with an injury, he would still give us a veteran leader on the court.

Bags for Voskuhl is advantage Bulls, although neither will be a major factor anyway.

We lose Fizer for a lotto-protected 1st-rounder, but this opens up more minutes for Marshall to play PF, which opens up minutes at SG for JC.

We'd look something like this:

PG- JC 20 min, Jay 28 min
SG- Trent 20 min, JC 10 min, Jalen 10 min, Penny 8
SF- Jalen 28 min, Penny 20
PF- Marshall 36 min, Tyson 12 min
C- Eddy 30 min, Tyson 18 min

Tyson, Penny and JayWill would come off the bench, and that's a pretty potent bench IMHO.

We'd still have Blount, Voskuhl, Baxter and Brunson/Overton to fill out the 12 man roster and fill in for injuries and foul trouble, but our main 8-man rotation:

Rose 38 min
Marshall 36 min
Chandler 30 min
Curry 30 min
Crawford 30 min
Hardaway 28 min
Williams 28 min
Hassell 20 min
 

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Sorry Louie, but Redd is 5x the player Crawford is... basing his overall future on potential is one thing, but I really, really find it hard to believe you can make that comment with a straight face, especially if you've watched both Jamal and Redd play.

He got absolutely shelled for leaving OSU early and the funny thing is, he was one of the few in his draft that was ready to play. I'd kill to have this guy on our team... anyone who follows IU basketball can easily have flashbacks on how Redd absolutely killed us.

He is a sniper, has perfect SG size and has a killer instinct. I'd give up JC and Fizer for him straight up. I'm still waiting for Jamal to show some gonads. All we need is a sweet shooting SG and we're set and obtaining Redd's services would be the perfect fit IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by <b>Louie</b>!
Redd's a solid backup at best- not a possible future star like JC.
Emphasis on possible

Wynn and NCBullsFan did some great work earlier in the summer when people were jawing about Wally and his outside shooting

They had all the stats for last season and the breakdowns against opponents etc ( I wish I could remember the name of the thread ) and Michael Redd was in the top few with Brent Barry is terms of shooting effectiveness/productivity

We don't think of him as a possible future star because he was drafted in the 2nd round ...but then again so was Cat Mobely, Nick Van Excel , Rashard Lewis etc etc.

The boy can play and trading out of ERob for Kukoc as well as committing Redd for term on what may turn out to be good dough is prudent long term payroll planning

On reflection maybe the Bucks would have to throw in a 1st round draft pick as well seeing as though this is really about saving their bacon from L Tax ( if Mase for Yogi and Caffey n Cassell for Mercer and Tinsley could be worked as well )
 

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Originally posted by <b>Coldchi2</b>!
this makes no sence basicly you are giving away some good young players for a free agent why?? have you checked this on the trade checker ???? why do the bulls need gadzuric and prezibilla and redd would not start on the bulls right now .... i think that you would have to sub hanslip for prezibilla keep Kukoc and take our craw and you might have a deal
So basicly you're questioning his knowledge on the CBA? Obviously, that makes no sense and that's no :rbanana:
 

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Originally posted by <b>Coldchi2</b>!
the problem is that marshell is better then redd and possiably e-robb too... so this is a a trade to get a backup
Yeah, that makes sense. Especially since neither Marshall or Eddie Robinson is a true SG. Marshall is a SF/PF and I'd choke myself in a dutch oven if I had to see him play the 2 spot. Eddie is just about as bad... and I'd like to give a formal opinion, but since he spends 3/4 of the time on the IR, I can't.

Anything else?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Originally posted by <b>Coldchi2</b>!
the problem is that marshell is better then redd and possiably e-robb too... so this is a a trade to get a backup
Huh ?

What's Marshall got to do with this ?

He would play PF back up with Tyson splitting his minutes at Center with Eddy Curry - the upfront reserves are Blount, Prism and Gadzilla

Jalen and Kukoc at SF

Redd and Trent at the 2

Jay/Rog and Rick at the point with the load being helped at this time with the two point forwards we have in Jalen and Toni
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!


I'd choke myself in a dutch oven if I had to see him play the 2 spot. .
I assume that's after 14 pints of lager and a dodgy curry vindaloo

you may as well go out with a bang

:eek:
 

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Attempts to disguise or mask vulgar or profane language is not acceptable

thats no ??? that like like a red dog.... but actually i just asked did it work.... i did not see any numbers so i asked. also did the bucks renounce redd ? i just dont see this trade being a good one for the bulls. not for a free agent



Lets keep it clean, eh?
 

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Originally posted by <b>Coldchi2</b>!
thats no ??? that like like a red dog .... but actually i just asked did it work.... i did not see any numbers so i asked. also did the bucks renounce redd ? i just dont see this trade being a good one for the bulls. not for a free agent
Subtitles please somebody
 

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Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!


Wynn and NCBullsFan did some great work earlier in the summer when people were jawing about Wally and his outside shooting

They had all the stats for last season and the breakdowns against opponents etc ( I wish I could remember the name of the thread ) and Michael Redd was in the top few with Brent Barry is terms of shooting effectiveness/productivity
I'm assuming you're referring to adjusted FG%, correct?

Last season, Redd took 609 FGA and scored 676 pts on those shots, for an adj % of 55.5%.

Jamal took 187 FGA and scored 204 pts on those shots, for an adj % of 54.5%.

That's a pretty small difference, and considering how Jamal's numbers improved as he became more comfortable with his re-built knee as his season progressed, the difference is negligible.

Factor in that Redd has 2 1/2 more seasons of college ball than Jamal, and Jamal's ability to run the point as well, and I'd prefer JC as our SG of the future over Redd.

I look for Jamal to have a breakout season this year- Marshall gives the Bulls a legitimate second scoring option, and hopefully Eddy and Tyson will be more prepared to finish off more of Jamal's passes to them.

Redd may be slightly more advanced that Jamal RIGHT NOW, but looking at last year's stats show that the difference isn't that great.
 

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Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
Chi trades :

Fizer, Crawford, ERob, Bags Hoiberg and Baxter ( S and T'd ) to Milwaukee

for :

Toni Kukoc, Michael Redd ( signed to start at $5M ) Joel Przybilla and the draft rights to Dan Gadzuric

This shaves $2.5M off a current $54M payroll for Milwaukee and gets them to $51.5M - but with Melvin Ely counting against the cap - they go back up to $53M
I really like the logic behind this trade, but, FJ, I think some of your math is off.

The Bucks are at $54M not counting Michael Redd. Counting Redd at $5M puts the Bucks at $59M. It is from this $59M that this trade "shaves $2.5M off" from, putting the Bucks at about $56.5M.

Another way to look at is that the Bucks are losing Kukoc and Przybilla who comine to make about $10.7M, but gain Fizer, Crawford, ERob, Hoiberg, Bags, and Baxter who combine to make over $13M.

Unless the Bucks do not re-sign Redd this trade probably saves them money, but it really doesn't help them all that much luxury tax-wise, since they are so far over the luxury tax threshold.

One other thing.

From a variety of unofficial sources (league and team officials are under a gag order about the luxury tax disbursement plan until this issue gets out of arbitration), it appears that about half of the luxury tax penalty money will be distributed back to teams below or just above the luxury tax threshold. The amount distributed back to those just above the luxury tax threshold will decline quite rapidly, in essence resulting in much more than a dollar-for-dollar penalty (about $3.13 to $1 penalty) for about the first $3.3 million dollars over the luxury tax threshold.

The team owners apparently have yet to decide what will happen with the other chunk of luxury tax money (about $100 million). Depending on what they decide, it could result in even more severe penalties for crossing the luxury tax threshold.

Also, on this note, it appears that the disbursement plan for the escrow money held from player's checks will result in about a $2 million lower disbursement for teams above the luxury tax threshold.

In total, it looks like teams will lose about $2 million once they cross the luxury tax threshold, pay about $3.13 for every dollar they spend up to about $3.3 million over the luxury tax threshold, and then they return back to the dollar-for-dollar penalty. And the penalties may get more severe when the owners decide what they will do with about $100 million of luxury tax penalty money for which there is no disbursement plan.

I will put a copy of this last information in my Complete Analysis of Free Agency thread. Please respond to this part of this post there.

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=305
 
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