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Discussion Starter #1
Below I have listed out many reasons why Mike D'Antoni disserves the Coach of the Year Award. Please do not look at it with a biased eye, especially towards how they play the game, simply look at the results which I can promise you are simply tremendous.

1)

If the Suns win their final three road games they’ll have the second greatest road record in league history. The 1996 Chicago Bulls would be the only team in NBA history to lose fewer games on the road than the 2005 Suns. While the Suns do have great talent are you going to argue that this Suns team compares to 1996 Bulls of Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc, Kerr, Rodman, Harper, and Longley? Good coaching is what has given the Suns the opportunity to accomplish such an amazing feat. The Suns are currently 30-8 on the road; by comparison the Spurs have gone 19-16 on the road. What this shows is that the Suns have an uncanny ability to compete in anyone’s house, much better than a team (Spurs) that a lot of people consider are better than the Suns. That’s coaching.


2) The Suns are a very young team.

Age of starters:

Nash- 31
Johnson- 23
Richardson- 24
Marion- 26
Stoudemire- 22

The starter’s average age is 25.2 years old.

This is a list (from the season’s beginning) of the average age on each NBA team’s roster (the number after the average age lists the number of players 30 or older on each team):

Housto.................29.160 6
Minnesota.............29.153 4
New Orleans.........28.555 6
Detroit..................28.504 8
San Antonio..........28.352 4
New Jersey...........28.321 5
New York..............28.177 7
Atlanta.................28.033 5
Sacramento..........27.778 4
Golden State.........27.646 4
Denver..................27.441 4
Orlando.................27.264 4
Miami....................27.157 4
Dallas...................27.151 4
Milwaukee.............27.119 2
Indiana.................27.051 2
Philadelphia...........27.032 4
Toronto.................26.948 4
Cleveland..............26.607 4
LA Lakers..............26.523 3
Portland................26.375 4
Boston...................26.357 3
Seattle..................26.236 1
LA Clippers............26.159 3
Memphis...............25.887 0
Washington...........25.748 1
Charlotte ..............25.630 1
Chicago................25.563 4
Utah.....................25.018 0
Phoenix................24.329 1


Obviously a lot of moves have been made since the season’s inception. Since then they’ve acquired players like McCarty and Jackson in exchange for younger players in Vroman, Jacobsen, and Lampje which would mean they are older than this chart indicates. However the starter’s average age has not changed for the Suns, they’re still amongst the youngest starting lineups in the league, in fact the current starters in their lineup at 25.2 years old are actually younger than the Bulls (at 25.8…. according to the current depth chart on ESPN.com)! I thought Skiles’ biggest reason for being coach of the year is because the Bulls have more youth than anyone thought would prove to be successful?

Obviously experience and age are integral parts of making a team great. Young players tend to be more inconsistent and are not as well rounded as they could be on both sides of the court (it can take years for young players to develop well in defense and rebounding). Therefore while the Suns may have tremendous talent, which is not in doubt, they are at a very big disadvantage with experience. Yet the team never seems to panic, they are almost always on the same page even when they are struggling. This is a sign of great coaching.

3)
Steve Nash, the most important part of the team, is only in his first season with the Suns. He hasn’t had a couple years to gel with players like Stoudemire and Marion. Unlike Shaq who just catches the ball and dunks he doesn’t really need time to gel. A PG normally does, you need to develop things like timing and the coach needs to develop plays to utilize his abilities with his teammates. D’Antoni established the exact system Nash and his teammates thrive in. A half court Suns offense isn’t going to be nearly as effective, something a lot of coaches in the league would have tried to force feed Phoenix’s players.

4)

D’Antoni is starting three players out of position. Last year Richardson played mostly SG, this year he plays SF, last year Marion played SF, this year he’s a PF, and finally last year Stoudemire played PF, and this year he’s a C. Of those three Quentin has had the easiest time to convert because he has experience at the position. However Marion and Stoudemire don’t. Marion is only 6’7 and he’s facing up against 7 foot plus power forwards yet he’s been very successful. It’s a testament on Marion’s part to do well out of position but it’s also a testament in D’Antoni to believe Marion could succeed. Meanwhile Amare HATED the idea of playing center. At the beginning of the season he absolutely did not want to do it. However D’Antoni made Stoudemire realize that playing him at center was best for the team and, despite the fact Stoudemire still prefers to play power forward, he has accepted it showing tremendous results. Again most of the coaches in this league, if not all, would have started Hunter at center and shifted everyone down to their normal spots. In fact most fans, even still, feel D’Antoni should do this. But you cannot deny the results. While people were pointing fingers in D’Antoni’s face saying that his strategy would fail it has constantly succeeded. The doubters have been left with their tail between their legs quite literally.

5)
D’Antoni lets his players work through their problems. Jim Jackson, someone who has seen a good number of coaches in his day, has actually complimented D’Antoni for doing this. I cannot find the exact quote but Jackson essentially said that D’Antoni gives players their space when they are struggling rather than getting on their backs for playing badly. A good example of this was at the beginning of the season when Richardson couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. Yet D’Antoni never dumped him from the starting lineup, he kept faith in Richardson and since then Richardson has responded twelve-fold (he’s actually shot about 39% from three since the first month of their year… after shooting about 28% the first month).

6)
People don’t give credit for how smart coach D’Antoni really is. While a lot of people might think he’s just sitting on the sidelines watching the Suns free style with a stupid grin on his face and his big fat mustache blowing in the Suns wake, he’s actually doing a lot of coaching (whether it be game day or in practices) and his track record proves this. D’Antoni did not have Stoudemire, Nash, Johnson, Richardson, or Marion in his two championship teams for Treviso in the Italian league. Yes! D’Antoni’s style HAS worked in the playoffs and HAS won championships. Ok it was the Italian league, but the Italian League is considered possibly the second best league in the world and considering that an American all star team lost not only to Italy but finished 3rd place in the Olympics you have to give him credit for that kind of success. Obviously his previous success shouldn’t have anything to do with D’Antoni winning the award this season but it does prove that D’Antoni knows what he’s doing. Those two championships didn’t just fall out of the sky; they were earned through great coaching.

7)
The Suns are in the midst of one of the greatest turnarounds in NBA history, they probably wont get to the Spurs record which would force them to go 8-1 in their final 9 games, but they could just as easily get the second greatest turnaround in NBA history if they go 6-3, further if they finish 6-3 in their final 9 games they’ll break their franchise record for wins in a season. And at currently two games ahead of the Spurs they may very well finish with the best record in the league, which would only be the second time in their franchises history that they accomplished this.

So let’s recap:

*The Suns could finish with the second greatest road record in NBA history by winning their final 3 road games
*The Suns could break their franchise record for wins by going 6-3 in their final 9 games
*The Suns could tie the greatest turnaround in NBA history by going 8-1 in their final 9 games
*The Suns have one of the youngest starting lineups in the league at an average age of 25.2 years old. In comparison the Bulls starters average 25.8 years old (if you go by their current depth chart on ESPN.com) and yet one of the reasons that Scott Skiles has been heralded as disserving of this award is because of their youth. Am I missing something here?
*D’Antoni was practically being crucified at the beginning of the year for playing an untraditional lineup. No ONE thought it was going to work, at least this well. But D’Antoni stuck to his guns which probably was one of the gutsiest coaching moves of the year.
*They could very well finish with the most wins in the league, only the second time in their franchise history (35 years) they’d have done so.

You have to give D’Antoni this award. No matter how good the Suns lineup is you just cannot set all time records (or come really close to doing it) without terrific coaching. It’s impossible! And unless you think the Suns lineup is one of the greatest of all time then it’s unquestionable as to think that D’Antoni hasn’t had an amazing hand in getting them this far. Simply put D’Antoni has EARNED this award, and no one else is even close.
 

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Coach D'Antoni has placed too much of a burden on his starters this season. Here are the MPG for the starters.

Joe Johnson 39.5
Shawn Marion 39.4
Quentin Richardson 36.6
Amare Stoudemire 36.3
Steve Nash 34.5

At least Jackson has played 23.8 MPG during his 31 games with the Suns, but Barbosa is only at 16.6.
 

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I don't care what anyone says, Nash runs that team. He is the heart and soul of that team. It's amazing how poorly they play when he's out of the lineup. I don't give D'Antoni that much credit. He's got one of the most dynamic lineups the league. All the good coaches in the league stress defense first. He doesn't and that's a sign of a coach trying to please players. Defense isn't easy to play and it doesn't get all the highlight's. The Suns play a style that get's highlight's but in the end no title. He can prove everyone wrong by doing well in the playoffs.
 

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I think you gotta give D'Antoni credit for a good coaching job this year, however I still think I prefer Mcmillan. I'm extremely impressed with the Sonics turnaround this year considering they made no significant team changes. The Suns signed 2 impact players as free agents.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
cpawfan said:
Coach D'Antoni has placed too much of a burden on his starters this season. Here are the MPG for the starters.

Joe Johnson 39.5
Shawn Marion 39.4
Quentin Richardson 36.6
Amare Stoudemire 36.3
Steve Nash 34.5

At least Jackson has played 23.8 MPG during his 31 games with the Suns, but Barbosa is only at 16.6.
No offense but you're a fool. All the starters get big minutes because A) They disserve it and B) They've played the same amount of minutes OR MORE in the past. Again for people trying to tare down my arguements at least check your stats before posting. Thanks.

Lets see here.

03-04 Minutes per game:

Steve Nash 33.5 Min/G (versus 34.5 Min/G this year): Difference: +1.0 Min/G
Shawn Marion 40.7 Min/G (versus 39.4 Min/G this year... in fact this is his lowest playing time since 01-02): Difference: -1.3 Min/Game
Quentin Richardson 36.6 Min/G (versus 36.0 Min/G this year): Difference: +0.6 Min/Game
Stoudemire 36.8 Min/G (versus 36.3 Min/G this year): Difference: -0.5 Min/G
Joe Johnson 40.6 Min/G (versus 39.5 Min/G this year): Difference: -1.1 Min/G

Let's see the total difference between the amount Phoenix's starters play this year compared with last year: +1.0-1.3+0.6-0.5-1.1= -1.3 Min/Game

Therefore the Suns starters actually play LESS than they did last year on average. None of them are playing more than 1 minute more than they did last year. Three of them are average less minutes this year than last year.

The "D'Antoni plays his starters too much" arguement is completely baseless. The only reason it seems he over plays them compared to most teams is because most teams don't play their starters simply because they don't disserve to play most of the game. Unless you think guys like Nesterovic or Reggie Evans (to name a few) disserve to get 37+ Min/G you have no real arguement. The fact is those players don't disserve it but every starter on Phoenix does.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Mavs41 said:
I don't care what anyone says, Nash runs that team. He is the heart and soul of that team. It's amazing how poorly they play when he's out of the lineup. I don't give D'Antoni that much credit. He's got one of the most dynamic lineups the league. All the good coaches in the league stress defense first. He doesn't and that's a sign of a coach trying to please players. Defense isn't easy to play and it doesn't get all the highlight's. The Suns play a style that get's highlight's but in the end no title. He can prove everyone wrong by doing well in the playoffs.
This is a regular season award if you did not know that. So to say he can't win in the playoffs is inconsequential. And also you cannot tell me that just because he runs a different style of play that he would not disserve it! Who cares what style he uses? As long as that translates into wins for the whole season, which it HAS. People forget that teams used to play this way all the time in the past and it produced some very darn good teams let me tell you. The Suns style gets in the highlight's true, but most importantly it get WINS. He could play a monkey at Power Forward but if that same team goes 82-0 then obviously it was a good decision.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Foulzilla said:
I think you gotta give D'Antoni credit for a good coaching job this year, however I still think I prefer Mcmillan. I'm extremely impressed with the Sonics turnaround this year considering they made no significant team changes. The Suns signed 2 impact players as free agents.
Maybe not changes on their exact roster per say but there has been a lot of changes as a team. Ridnour has improved a lot since his rookie season while Lewis played like crap last year and is playing great this year. It's called player progression and it's really helped this team. Not saying that McMillan hasn't done a great job.
 

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tempe85 said:
No offense but you're a fool. All the starters get big minutes because A) They disserve it and B) They've played the same amount of minutes OR MORE in the past. Again for people trying to tare down my arguements at least check your stats before posting. Thanks.

Lets see here.

03-04 Minutes per game:

Steve Nash 33.5 Min/G (versus 34.5 Min/G this year): Difference: +1.0 Min/G
Shawn Marion 40.7 Min/G (versus 39.4 Min/G this year... in fact this is his lowest playing time since 01-02): Difference: -1.3 Min/Game
Quentin Richardson 36.6 Min/G (versus 36.0 Min/G this year): Difference: +0.6 Min/Game
Stoudemire 36.8 Min/G (versus 36.3 Min/G this year): Difference: -0.5 Min/G
Joe Johnson 40.6 Min/G (versus 39.5 Min/G this year): Difference: -1.1 Min/G

Let's see the total difference between the amount Phoenix's starters play this year compared with last year: +1.0-1.3+0.6-0.5-1.1= -1.3 Min/Game

Therefore the Suns starters actually play LESS than they did last year on average. None of them are playing more than 1 minute more than they did last year. Three of them are average less minutes this year than last year.

The "D'Antoni plays his starters too much" arguement is completely baseless. The only reason it seems he over plays them compared to most teams is because most teams don't play their starters simply because they don't disserve to play most of the game. Unless you think guys like Nesterovic or Reggie Evans (to name a few) disserve to get 37+ Min/G you have no real arguement. The fact is those players don't disserve it but every starter on Phoenix does.
First off, stop with the name calling and secondly, stop with the attitude. You expressed an opinion and their are posters that disagree with you. There is no right or wrong in this discussion, there is only agreement or disagreement.

The Suns do play their starters too much and it is because they lack a quality bench (at least Jackson gives them something off of the bench). Instead of attempting to build a bench with playing time during the season, the Suns coaching staff has decided that it is worth squeezing out every possible victory in the regular season, regardless of how much the starters play. Another team that comes close to playing their starters as much is the Heat, and once again, it is because they don't have a quality bench. The difference is that the Heat have such a dominating player, they can get away with it in the playoffs.

Comparing previous seasons for two players that played on different teams with different dynamics means nothing. Additionally, you should consider Nash's playoff performances when looking at the minutes he plays. Last season, he wasn't very good in the playoffs, partially because he had to play 39.4 MPG. Steve had a much better playoffs in 03 because he played less minutes during the season and in the playoffs. Q played for the Clippers before and didn't have to worry about having any energy left for the playoffs. Additionally, Q only played in 65 games last year and 59 the year before.

Additionally, just because three of the Suns played big minutes last season on a lousy team doesn't mean that they should this season on a good team. It doesn't matter if the starters deserve more minutes, it matters that there is such a significant drop off that going to the bench hurts the team. All of the recent championship teams had more than 1 player that could come off of the bench and provide quality minutes for the team.

Traditionally during the playoffs, the starters minutes increase because the games mean more. The Suns have been winning games in large part because their starters have been playing more minutes than the other teams starters. That won't be the case in the playoffs, unless the Suns starters each play 42 MPG.

Championship teams play the reqular season to get ready for the post season, not to win the regular season. The Phoenix coaching staff has sacrificed post season preparation for regular season wins.
 

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how do you say that coaching has anything to do with the team winning a lot of the road?

besides, saying that they are really good on the road would be a very good stat BUT they have a better road winning percentage than home. that's just unacceptable.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
cpawfan said:
First off, stop with the name calling and secondly, stop with the attitude. You expressed an opinion and their are posters that disagree with you. There is no right or wrong in this discussion, there is only agreement or disagreement.

The Suns do play their starters too much and it is because they lack a quality bench (at least Jackson gives them something off of the bench). Instead of attempting to build a bench with playing time during the season, the Suns coaching staff has decided that it is worth squeezing out every possible victory in the regular season, regardless of how much the starters play. Another team that comes close to playing their starters as much is the Heat, and once again, it is because they don't have a quality bench. The difference is that the Heat have such a dominating player, they can get away with it in the playoffs.

Comparing previous seasons for two players that played on different teams with different dynamics means nothing. Additionally, you should consider Nash's playoff performances when looking at the minutes he plays. Last season, he wasn't very good in the playoffs, partially because he had to play 39.4 MPG. Steve had a much better playoffs in 03 because he played less minutes during the season and in the playoffs. Q played for the Clippers before and didn't have to worry about having any energy left for the playoffs. Additionally, Q only played in 65 games last year and 59 the year before.

Additionally, just because three of the Suns played big minutes last season on a lousy team doesn't mean that they should this season on a good team. It doesn't matter if the starters deserve more minutes, it matters that there is such a significant drop off that going to the bench hurts the team. All of the recent championship teams had more than 1 player that could come off of the bench and provide quality minutes for the team.

Traditionally during the playoffs, the starters minutes increase because the games mean more. The Suns have been winning games in large part because their starters have been playing more minutes than the other teams starters. That won't be the case in the playoffs, unless the Suns starters each play 42 MPG.

Championship teams play the reqular season to get ready for the post season, not to win the regular season. The Phoenix coaching staff has sacrificed post season preparation for regular season wins.
The reason I called you a fool is because you didn't even bother to check if what you were saying was true. Next time check your stats before making an accusation.

Did you know that Allen Iverson, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Gilbert Arenas, Tracy McGrady, and Stephon Marbury all average more minutes per game than any one player on the Suns? While Dirk Nowitzki, Ray Allen, Mike Bibby, Peja Stojakovic, Atawn Walker, and Richard Hamilton all average within 0.5 minutes/game of Johnson, the Suns leader in minutes per game. Why shouldn't the same apply to those players?

Your argument that Richardson is playing too many minutes holds no water. He's only 24 years old! Maybe if he was 35 you'd have a good case but at 24 he's at the peak of his physical abilities.

Comparing previous seasons for two players that played on different teams with different dynamics means nothing.
Hmm it's odd because I swore that Stoudemire, Marion, and Johnson all played for the Suns last year. Also that Nash played in a similar system last year as he does now... I must be mistaken.

Traditionally during the playoffs
There you go again talking about the playoffs in a discussion about a regular season award. When the playoffs come we'll talk playoffs but for now let's keep it to the regular season ok? I think this is more than reasonable. And more thing... do you think the Suns care about anything "traditional"?

It doesn't matter if the starters deserve more minutes, it matters that there is such a significant drop off that going to the bench hurts the team.
The Suns bench is a lot different than it was in the season's beginning. They are now able to play the starters less because they added players like Jackson and McCarty.

Just look at the starters average minutes per game for the month of February:
Marion 38.3 Minutes/Game
Johnson 38.7 Minutes/Game
Nash 33.6 Minutes/Game
Stoudemire 37.3 Minutes/game
Richardson 31.1 Minutes/game

Only Stoudemire averaged more than his season average. While Richardson and Nash have played significantly less.

Are you telling me it was D'Antoni's fault that they had a weak bench to start the season??? This was bad coaching?


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You're really reaching here....your main argument against D'Antoni disserving the coach of the year award is that he plays his starters too much. Come on now... for one thing I've proven that as the season has gone on D'Antoni has been resting his players more and more (mostly due to the management trading for more bench). I've also proven that there are quite a few players in this league on playoff teams who average more minutes/game than anyone on the Suns. To say he doesn't disserve the award on these grounds is simply not reasonable.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
aftermath said:
how do you say that coaching has anything to do with the team winning a lot of the road?

besides, saying that they are really good on the road would be a very good stat BUT they have a better road winning percentage than home. that's just unacceptable.
It takes a certain coach to get his players ready to play big games in other teams' houses. It requires much more focus for the team as a whole to win consistently on the road. Do I believe the coach is a big part of this? Yes I do.

Do you really think having the fourth best home record in the league is unacceptable?
 

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tempe85 said:
Maybe not changes on their exact roster per say but there has been a lot of changes as a team. Ridnour has improved a lot since his rookie season while Lewis played like crap last year and is playing great this year. It's called player progression and it's really helped this team. Not saying that McMillan hasn't done a great job.
hahah, you are singing a much different tune in this thread and have basically taken my comments and integrated them into your arguement, i do believe that plaigirism. anyways, as can plainly be seen here...
http://web.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=154924
you actually made the claim that it could have been "bad" coaching that led the sonics to an unsuccessful year last season, and you even have the nerve to say their success is somewhat exaggerated.
theres so many double standards in your posts its ridiculous, you make all these claims and try twisting them towards the suns favor, when the exact same thing can be done for teams like the sonics that flat out sucked last year and have turned it around immensly. How dare you start out your lenghty paragraph by saying "dont look at this with a biased eye" when in fact your one of the more biased posters on this entire board.
 

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He gets my vote. Sorry Skiles, but Phoenix is playing top-notch basketball right now, and all freakin season long.




One of the main reasons I think D'Antoni deserves coach of the year is because I can't imagine a different coach doing as well with this team as D'Antoni has. His coaching background was perfect for this team, and he has these guys going against the standards and playing great basketball. Sometimes it does look like the Suns just go out and look like they are playing street ball (Meaning everything is done on the fly with no coaching), but the guys have obviously bought into the system and have played well beyond anyone's expectations.



D'Antoni gets my non-existent vote.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Tooeasy said:
hahah, you are singing a much different tune in this thread and have basically taken my comments and integrated them into your arguement, i do believe that plaigirism.
Is it wrong of me to use that arguement? You yourself used it.... I in fact believe your statement had a lot of truth to it. My initial statement about MAYBE (it was a hypothetical) it being bad coaching that the Sonics played badly last year. I'll admit that I was probably wrong initially.... my opinions can change as long as someone makes a good arguement and shows me facts.

I am biased there's no doubt about it.
However tell me if these statements are biased:

*The Suns could finish with the second greatest road record in NBA history by winning their final 3 road games
*The Suns could break their franchise record for wins by going 6-3 in their final 9 games
*The Suns could tie the greatest turnaround in NBA history by going 8-1 in their final 9 games
*The Suns have one of the youngest starting lineups in the league at an average age of 25.2 years old. In comparison the Bulls starters average 25.8 years old (if you go by their current depth chart on ESPN.com) and yet one of the reasons that Scott Skiles has been heralded as disserving of this award is because of their youth. Am I missing something here?
*D’Antoni was practically being crucified at the beginning of the year for playing an untraditional lineup. No ONE thought it was going to work, at least this well. But D’Antoni stuck to his guns which probably was one of the gutsiest coaching moves of the year.
*They could very well finish with the most wins in the league, only the second time in their franchise history (35 years) they’d have done so.
 

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tempe85 said:
Is it wrong of me to use that arguement? You yourself used it.... I in fact believe your statement had a lot of truth to it. My initial statement about MAYBE (it was a hypothetical) it being bad coaching that the Sonics played badly last year. I'll admit that I was probably wrong initially.... my opinions can change as long as someone makes a good arguement and shows me facts.

I am biased there's no doubt about it.
However tell me if these statements are biased:

*The Suns could finish with the second greatest road record in NBA history by winning their final 3 road games
*The Suns could break their franchise record for wins by going 6-3 in their final 9 games
*The Suns could tie the greatest turnaround in NBA history by going 8-1 in their final 9 games
*The Suns have one of the youngest starting lineups in the league at an average age of 25.2 years old. In comparison the Bulls starters average 25.8 years old (if you go by their current depth chart on ESPN.com) and yet one of the reasons that Scott Skiles has been heralded as disserving of this award is because of their youth. Am I missing something here?
*D’Antoni was practically being crucified at the beginning of the year for playing an untraditional lineup. No ONE thought it was going to work, at least this well. But D’Antoni stuck to his guns which probably was one of the gutsiest coaching moves of the year.
*They could very well finish with the most wins in the league, only the second time in their franchise history (35 years) they’d have done so.
yes, all those facts you've brought to the table bring a very solid arguement as to why he's one of the front runners for coach of the year, however im sure i could dig up quite a bit of fact as to why nate is worthy as well.
looking at the remainder of their schedule, its pretty plausible that they could go 7-2 or better in their last games, so more records could be broken.
However, one arguement that i think should be thrown out FOREVER is the youth thing. Look, it is completely irrelovent if the average age of a teams starting five is an entire year younger than the rest of the teams in the league, because when your most important player(nash) is a seasoned vet then it doesnt really matter if you have a couple young bucks in your lineup, and with just about every team having someone on their roster that can't even legally drink it, its proof that the NBA is becoming a much more youth oriented game. Also, you did point out that you got mccardy and jim jackson and gave away cabarkaba, vroman, and lampe, so I'd imagine your average age thing really isn't much of an arguement because your probably just a middle-of-the-pack team in that aspect now.
All that aside, D'antoni is probably going to get the award, and i wouldn't have any problem with it, but if Nate or possibly scott skiles gets it, you'd better not be running to the nba general board and making a "suns got shafted!" thread just to stir up more pointless controversy.
 

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tempe85 said:
*D’Antoni was practically being crucified at the beginning of the year for playing an untraditional lineup. No ONE thought it was going to work, at least this well. But D’Antoni stuck to his guns which probably was one of the gutsiest coaching moves of the year.
*They could very well finish with the most wins in the league, only the second time in their franchise history (35 years) they’d have done so.
aside from everything else, I think these two points alone are enough to warrant him winning coach of the year.

I looked at their roster at the beginning of the year and thought "waaaayy too many redundant players. no size in the front court. maybe a 6th or 7th seed." and I sure as hell wasn't alone.

in a way, though, Phoenix was a little lucky. had the refs not enforced stricter rules on perimeter defenders, they would be in a different boat. the rule enforcement changes benefited them more than probably any other team in the league.

Nash gets a free pass to waterbug his way around the court. sure, they can hold him still when he gets nearer the net, but as a defender it's hard to think in terms of laying off on the perimeter and being aggressive when he penetrates. by the time he's penetrated you've already lost hope of containing him. makes me wonder now how the Dirk/Nash/Finley Dallas teams would have done in the current era.

that said, I'd be here lambasting D'Antoni as a failure if he'd missed the playoffs with his streetball offense. so you gotta give him credit for exceeding everyone's expectations.
 

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tempe85 said:
The reason I called you a fool is because you didn't even bother to check if what you were saying was true. Next time check your stats before making an accusation.
Listen, you are continuing to make very silly assumptions. My facts are fine, in an attempt to argue your point of view, you are spinning them in various directions.

Also, you really need to review what the word accusation means.

Did you know that Allen Iverson, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Gilbert Arenas, Tracy McGrady, and Stephon Marbury all average more minutes per game than any one player on the Suns? While Dirk Nowitzki, Ray Allen, Mike Bibby, Peja Stojakovic, Atawn Walker, and Richard Hamilton all average within 0.5 minutes/game of Johnson, the Suns leader in minutes per game. Why shouldn't the same apply to those players?
That's nice, but it has nothing to do with my point. You are talking about 1 player per on other teams. I'm talking about the collective playing time of all of the Suns starters.

Your argument that Richardson is playing too many minutes holds no water. He's only 24 years old! Maybe if he was 35 you'd have a good case but at 24 he's at the peak of his physical abilities.

Hmm it's odd because I swore that Stoudemire, Marion, and Johnson all played for the Suns last year. Also that Nash played in a similar system last year as he does now... I must be mistaken.
Again, you are spinning what I said, and not responding to my point. My point was that comparing Q's MPG to last season isn't relevant because of the team situation. Additionally, he did have injuries each of the two previous seasons. 2/5 of the starters played on different teams last season, plus the 3 that where Suns last season had an entirely different dynamic.

Also, the Mavs offense last season, while also up tempo, had several significant differencs than the Suns offense.

There you go again talking about the playoffs in a discussion about a regular season award. When the playoffs come we'll talk playoffs but for now let's keep it to the regular season ok? I think this is more than reasonable. And more thing... do you think the Suns care about anything "traditional"?

The Suns bench is a lot different than it was in the season's beginning. They are now able to play the starters less because they added players like Jackson and McCarty.

Just look at the starters average minutes per game for the month of February:
Marion 38.3 Minutes/Game
Johnson 38.7 Minutes/Game
Nash 33.6 Minutes/Game
Stoudemire 37.3 Minutes/game
Richardson 31.1 Minutes/game

Only Stoudemire averaged more than his season average. While Richardson and Nash have played significantly less.

Are you telling me it was D'Antoni's fault that they had a weak bench to start the season??? This was bad coaching?


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You're really reaching here....your main argument against D'Antoni disserving the coach of the year award is that he plays his starters too much. Come on now... for one thing I've proven that as the season has gone on D'Antoni has been resting his players more and more (mostly due to the management trading for more bench). I've also proven that there are quite a few players in this league on playoff teams who average more minutes/game than anyone on the Suns. To say he doesn't disserve the award on these grounds is simply not reasonable.
You are assuming things again. You are assuming that we all have to agree with you on what the award should be based upon. You bristle at the the suggestion of playoffs, well guess what, that matters to some of us and in matters in different degrees. (in real life it will also matter to some of the voters)

Coach D has done a great job in getting his team to the record they have, but I also take some of the shine off of that record because he coaches for the current game instead of coaching for the bigger picture. That creates a great Won/Loss record, but IMHO that isn't coach of the year award material.

I ask you this, if you aren't willing to accept other interpretations of the what the Coach of the Year award means, then why did you start this thread? Nobody is discounting that Coach D has a had a great season.

I guess this is my fault, because I should have read your first post closer. You ended your first post with this
Simply put D’Antoni has EARNED this award, and no one else is even close.
I should have known that you weren't looking for a discussion. So let me make this simple for everyone, what the thread starter was attemtping to say was

...............D'Antoni
:allhail: or :kissmy:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
cpawfan said:
Coach D has done a great job in getting his team to the record they have, but I also take some of the shine off of that record because he coaches for the current game instead of coaching for the bigger picture. That creates a great Won/Loss record, but IMHO that isn't coach of the year award material.
You haven't even given D'Antoni the chance to see if his style will work, yet you already say it's going to fail and that he isn't working towards the bigger picture. That's not fair and you know it. Well let me tell you something...D'Antoni's two championships in Europe must have come through looking at the the bigger picture. That you cannot question.

By the way the voters vote before the playoffs so do you think they have a right to base their decision off of their predictions for the playoffs?

You did make an accusation... you claimed that D'Antoni was overplaying his players and by doing so it was bad coaching... Yet I showed you that (other than Q who is only in his second year as a full time starter) none of the players are playing their career high in minutes, and most of them (3 of 5) are playing less than they did last season.

Plain and simply coach of the year has been and always will be given to the best coach of the regular season. Voters have no right to allow their thoughts on success in post season affect them before the post season even begins.

The funny thing is I bet you were one of those people at the beginning of the year that said D'Antoni's coaching decisions (moving Amare to Center and Marion to Power Forward) and style (offense oriented) was going to be a complete dissaster. Yet it has not only been a success, it's been the biggest success in the league (don't believe me.. just check the standings)! You STILL are using that against him (style of play). Wow.. after almost 82 games you still can't admit that you were wrong. What does he need to do for you to make you believe his strategy has worked... walk on water?
 

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D'Antoni is an excellent candidate for coach of the year. Nate McMillan is also a great candidate. He's also turned around a team and developed a unique style to suit the players he's got, and he didn't get the kind of infusion of leadership and talent that Phoenix did w/ Nash. Carlisle (though he won't win it) has also done an incredible job w/ the Pacers. How in the world are they still winning?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I would have no problem with McMillen winning coach of the year... I respect the guy quite a bit. However I would still feel that D'Antoni deserved it but I must admit McMillen has made a great case himself and if he wins I wouldn't complain.
 
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