[basketball_jesus]

Why does everyone think that Miles won't be able to "break out" until Odom is traded? These are very versitle players we are talking about here. The Clippers just have to be creative with the lineups they have out on the court. For example play Odom at point and Miles at small forward. OR Odom at SF and Darius at PF. OR Miles at SG and Odom at SF. OR Miles at SF Odom at PF. There are many ways you can get these guys playing time together. They play diffrent styles of basketball and therefore can play together. Odom is a playmaker and Miles is a finisher. Does no one else see how well this could work out?

 

[Bean the pimp]

well young grasshopper, it is not that simple

there is other people on the clippers who demand PT as well, so puttin odom and miles at various positions such as PF and SG would take away minutes from the plethora (lol i feel smart) of players on the team

 

[Turtle219]

versatile is rite... but Odom at point? first off he can't start at point... no way he could guard PGs, but he can bring the ball up the court and set up offense (Pippen) but there still has to be a real point guard to defend the opposing teams...Odom also cannot play PF, maybe sometimes if the situation is rite, but it will happen less often than not, his arms aren't as long as miles and doesn't have the same hops as him either.

Miles at shooting guard is feasible, he has enough athleticism to make up for the speed he gives up to quicker SGs...and he can shoot the ball (its not that terrible, unlike what many people say, i saw a play set up just for him to shot a 3 and it went in) He can play PFs cause he did some last year, i went to a game against the wolves and he played pretty good defense against KG.

I have a SLIGHT bias against Odom, i just don't feel like he can really do all the things people say, i am not blind at the numbers he puts up and is capable of, but i rather have miles who i feel can put up similar numbers with less touches and clock that Odom does...

i have watched the clippers since Ken Norman/Ron Harper days, i went through the Mark Aguirre/DOminique phase, and past the "only team to feature THREE 300+ pounders... I WANT the clippers to win... i just think that Odom+Miles really does hold back Miles' true capability...
thats just my opinion

 

[RD]

I think everybody agrees that offensively, Odom can run the point. I mean, he basically has done it throughout his career.

The only question comes defensively, and honestly, I think it's a load of crap.

With the new zone rules, a player can sag off his man. If Odom is playing a great penetrator, he can sag off him. With Odom being 6'10 with long arms, he will still be able to alter a jump shot.

If a player does happen to get by Odom, he's running into Miles, Brand, and Kanid - All 3 excellent shot blockers and excellent help defenders. That is the reason Odom can play point for the Clippers. If he gets beat, that little guard is going into a house of smart players who will block or alter their shots. Or if you have to, move Miles to cover the PG because he has the better lateral quickness. DMiles has shown the ability to cover the likes of Kobe Bryant - I think he could cover PG's pretty well. Which means Odom would replace Miles down low on D, and Odom is a good shot blocker and a great help defender as well.

And why do people ignore the advantage on the other end? not only would Odom be able to post up PG's at will, he's 7"+ height advantage on other PG's gives him a clearer passing view - a player of Odom's vision and passing ability does not need that. You give him that, and he will be deadly.

I most definitely think Odom can play the PG spot for the Clippers.

You run Odom, Q, Miles, Brand, and Kandi and you have a team that can do it all. And those are the 5 best players on the team.

 

[Turtle219]

its been a while since someone said, its ok if he beats him cause there are 4 other players... well there are 4 other players on the other team that will be open if LO is left at the top of the key... i think every team has stressed 2 things the past decade, transition D and stop the penetration... the only team i kno that somewhat allows penetration is the lakers BUT they have Shaq... BJ and Bibby's penetration allowed the Kings to almost win that playoff series, i haven't heard "its ok, my teammates will cover" in a while... that should never be allowed...

what u say is also true, maybe they will negate each other's disadvantages and Odom will come out with minutes, but the simple point of McGinnis not being the PG of future was he shot first/passed second (and he wanted to cash in) would he be able to resist shooting and look to set up the team? but here in lies another point, Another key reason that the Clippers offense is so versatile is because no ONE person really sets the offense on the clippers, they usually play 2 man sets, whether the Q/Miles/PG into kandi/brand... Miles and Q... Q/Odom one on one... and it has changed constantly due to injuries... so i feel like Odom at point is not an option... but my interuptation of the clippers offense is merely my opinion

it also seems to me that Dooling and even Jaric are what the Clips management really want at the PG, i mean if u can get an All Star without giving up much, anyone would look into it

i also think that Odom uses up too much clock dribbling and backing people down that it ruins the flow of the game 10x more than Q Posting his man down on the baseline...
but its also still possible that he might be able to do it, i have never seen him guard the PG so i can't really say, these are just my conclusions taken from the games i watch

 

[RD]

Originally posted by Turtle219
the only team i kno that somewhat allows penetration is the lakers BUT they have Shaq...

And we have Kandi, Brand, and Miles/Odom. That's just as much of a detterent IMO.

what u say is also true, maybe they will negate each other's disadvantages and Odom will come out with minutes, but the simple point of McGinnis not being the PG of future was he shot first/passed second (and he wanted to cash in) would he be able to resist shooting and look to set up the team?

Most definitely. Odom would rather pass than shoot. I think thats one of the key reasons Odom is such a great player. He's an unselfish superstar. He has the mindset like a Kidd or even a MAgic - He'd rather distribute than score but he can score himself. Odom has even been criticized for being too unselfish at times.

but here in lies another point, Another key reason that the Clippers offense is so versatile is because no ONE person really sets the offense on the clippers, they usually play 2 man sets

And they will. Along with Odom Miles has the makings of an excellent '2nd' distributor. The Clips even allowed him to bring the ball up a few times last year. He would be that 2nd distributor in the starting lineup. And obviously with Keyon and Jaric off the bench, we'd always have 2.

i also think that Odom uses up too much clock dribbling and backing people down that it ruins the flow of the game 10x more than Q Posting his man down on the baseline...

I actually couldnt disagree more. McInnis is the one who backs guys down running the clock out. Odom stands on the perimeter and makes things happen or drives and dishes. He rarely ever holds the ball for too long, which is a key reason I think he should play the point.
And I actually believe Q and his score every time he gets the ball mindset is one of the biggest problems with his game. Whenever he gets the ball, he's shooting. He'll pound and pound and pound and chuck up a bad shot, just to get a shot himself. I believe he needs to be more unselfish and kick it out if he doesnt have a good look right away.

 

[Turtle219]

hahha well we just don't see it that same... i have been watching these boards with these crazy trades so i hoped i would start up some real discussions

yea, McGinnis was not a pure PG, and i have also seen Odom bring the ball up and set the offense, but i still do see him dribbling the ball, doing some other crap, then shooting it...but we just don't see eye to eye there..

BUT come on, Kandi, Brand, Miles... intimidating? Brand and Miles are beginning to be known as shot blockers but i think Brand was more because people just didn't think of him that way. i think hardly anyone is affraid of Kandi, besides his armpits (he doesn't wear deoderant) Odom does get blocks thou, LO and Miles play good team defense, but i don't think its quite the same as taking it on Diesel...

Q, man... i think he was the key reason the Clips able to still make a race for the playoffs after all the injuries... Maggette, McGinnis, Miles all contributed... Maggette had some great games, but i feel Q's post up, while it changes the flow, helps keeps consistancy in terms of offense, i saw him take many SG and take good shots and/or get to the line. I thought he was the 2nd most consistant scorer on the clips besides Brand while keeping a good SG % (considering he shot and missed a lot of 3s to help keep the floor spread).

Odom and Miles eh? interesting, just my thoughts...

 

[RD]

Originally posted by Turtle219


yea, McGinnis was not a pure PG, and i have also seen Odom bring the ball up and set the offense, but i still do see him dribbling the ball, doing some other crap, then shooting it...but we just don't see eye to eye there..

I concede the shot thing. Odom would chuck up some really wild - LONG 3 pt shots. But those were shot up early in the clock, and weren't after 'fiddling' with the ball. I don't ever remember LO holding on to the ball being a major issue.

BUT come on, Kandi, Brand, Miles... intimidating? Brand and Miles are beginning to be known as shot blockers but i think Brand was more because people just didn't think of him that way. i think hardly anyone is affraid of Kandi, besides his armpits (he doesn't wear deoderant) Odom does get blocks thou, LO and Miles play good team defense, but i don't think its quite the same as taking it on Diesel...

Yes, intimidating. Elton Brand is built like a bowling ball. He's abit shorter than your average PF, but he's much thicker and bulkier. And he never backs down and has committed plenty hard fouls. People definitely know he's around down low.
As for Kandi - This past year he showed some aggression he's never shown before. He's a legit 7footer and has always been strong and able to block shots, but this year he played with more force and intensity.
I wouldn't exactly call Miles intimidating down there, but he is a difference maker. He is fantastic at helping and altering or blocking shots. People may not be afraid of him, but they know he's there. But people do not about Brand and Kandi, and Miles' shot blocking and help ability is a huge plus down there.

Q, man... i think he was the key reason the Clips able to still make a race for the playoffs after all the injuries...

No doubt Q played a role on the team last year that helped them almost make the playoffs. But a key reason? Not IMO.

Brand obviously was the main reason. But the reason not many people talk about is Jeff McInnis' play. I think he is just plain wrong for this team, but he was huge in the Clippers doing what they did last year. Then there was Kandi - His play was improved the last half when all the injuries were present, and he was the other main reason.

Q's impact was felt early on in the year when he was tearing it up. He faded the last halfo f the year. He played well, but not anywhere near what he did in the first half, and I dont think he was one of the 3 key guys from last years team. I think Brand, McInnis, and Kandi had bigger impacts on last years team.