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Piker
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They seemed to have only played Patriot League games last year, starting in January,
They played Bucknell 3 games in a row (?). Won their tourney and went to the NCAA's.
This year they have already beaten Syracuse.
Last year's final NET was 30.
I have not seen the wild swings that people talk about. In my opinion, the NET as with AP Rankings, it is important to be highly ranked early. If your team is not it makes it difficult to make extensive gains. I may be wrong but it it just feels that way to me.
 

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I'm surprised there isn't a push from non P-5 schools to release the formula. What benefit can the NCAA publicly claim to keep it hidden?
Because they don't want people to be able to game it like they did the RPI. I know many of you think it is gamed already, but I'm not so sure. I wish they would go to just an efficiency measure that already impicitly accounts for all the quadrant crap they've added.
 

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Because they don't want people to be able to game it like they did the RPI. I know many of you think it is gamed already, but I'm not so sure. I wish they would go to just an efficiency measure that already impicitly accounts for all the quadrant crap they've added.
JP showed how it can be gamed earlier so I would bet there are other nerds in these large school athletic departments who are figuring out the same thing
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,144 ·
What benefit? If it is transparent than the wrong teams can game the system...
But the NCAA's page on NET notes the following:
"We're here to help you understand what's valued in the NET rankings and how they're used."

Are you saying they may be hiding something?
 

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Your team value index clearly correlates closely with the $ize of your athletics budget. It may be early in the season but most teams are approaching 10 games played. It's shaping up as a P5/6 weighted system so far. And of course it will be kept secret. Not because it can be gamed, but because it's hard-coded. i.e. if you aren't high in the TVI you have no chance. For the sake of fairness it should be published. But we know better than to ask for something like that.
 

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Your team value index clearly correlates closely with the $ize of your athletics budget.
No surprise there, but that's not indicative of any inherent bias. The unpopular truth around these parts is that the overwhelming majority of the best teams are longterm members of power conferences or those that have been subsumed into them. Almost any ranking system is going to reflect that.

If you ask me, and I know no one has, automatic bids eat up way more bids than undeserving P6 teams. I'm fine with having the NEC and MEAC champions in, but they sure eat up a lot of space.
 

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JP showed how it can be gamed earlier so I would bet there are other nerds in these large school athletic departments who are figuring out the same thing
I would take issue with the word "showed".
 

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Is it really gaming the system? By scheduling quality opponents or opponents who are projected to have high win totals? If that's the case, isn't the system already being gamed by programs/conferences that schedule nothing but home games and cupcakes, only to go into conference play with inflated records?

Or is creating a formula with an unpublished metric gaming the system?

And I agree with you, res, that for the most part, the best teams, year over year, are typically in the P5, so it should reflect that. But there sure have been a lot of instances that don't add up over the years, too.
 

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I took a look at Iona’s profile, and the drastic differences between metrics are jarring.

The Gaels have a solid schedule, road wins, a win over then-Top 10 Alabama, and neutral losses to Kansas and Belmont…

RPI: 28
NET: 59
KenPom: 109

We need a transparent system coupled with some NCAA-mandated OOC scheduling requirements.
 

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I took a look at Iona’s profile, and the drastic differences between metrics are jarring.

The Gaels have a solid schedule, road wins, a win over then-Top 10 Alabama, and neutral losses to Kansas and Belmont…

RPI: 28
NET: 59
KenPom: 109

We need a transparent system coupled with some NCAA-mandated OOC scheduling requirements.
And Torvik is 85. I don't trust KenPom as much as I do in a normal year, because it still weights preseason expectations as if it was a normal year.
 

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I took a look at Iona’s profile, and the drastic differences between metrics are jarring.

The Gaels have a solid schedule, road wins, a win over then-Top 10 Alabama, and neutral losses to Kansas and Belmont…

RPI: 28
NET: 59
KenPom: 109

We need a transparent system coupled with some NCAA-mandated OOC scheduling requirements.
Forget RPI, it's no longer considered (supposedly) and it was always a joke. Iona's kenpom has risen substantially since the beginning of the season. Keep in mind, his beginning ratings are heavily dependent on the previous season, so a substantial rise is to be expected; i.e, kenpom is working. NET, who the hell knows. While I've never read this, I've suspected that no real effort goes into the initial NET rankings and that everyone starts out at the same rating. If so, it would explain why the NCAA waits so long to publish them. It also explains why so many teams appear over or underrated.

NET dosen't matter until late February, anyhow. By then, many of these discrepancies between NET and other systems will probably diminish. If not, I'll try to muster up a sufficient amount of indignation.
 

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I have not seen the wild swings that people talk about. In my opinion, the NET as with AP Rankings, it is important to be highly ranked early. If your team is not it makes it difficult to make extensive gains. I may be wrong but it it just feels that way to me.
Biggest swings are undefeated teams playing only Quad 3&4 who then lose 1 game
16-0 Drake 2/6/21 was 13
16-1 Drake 2/7/21 was 32

That will change your seeding and at-large chances in a hurry...
 

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You seem to have a good supply of turkey necks...
It will change over to candy canes soon.

PS-I was given a good life due to turkeys. My pops is a retired poultry Veterinarian and we owned a turkey farm. I spent many Saturdays traveling to that farm. I would sweep the legs of the turkeys (I could hold five to six in each hand) and put them into trucks headed for processing. Nothing like a summer job picking eggs or sucking the guts out of turkeys on a processing line.
 

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Us Bona fans love to yell conspiracy at anything that dings the Bonnies. This thread is getting into Bandwagon territory…

There are many other schools on this list with puzzling NET rankings that don’t coincide with their national rankings or KenPom.

Kentucky – 39
Michigan – 64
Memphis – 68
Syracuse – 116

All of the schools above could take issue with their pointless December NET rankings.
 

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The unpopular truth around these parts is that the overwhelming majority of the best teams are longterm members of power conferences or those that have been subsumed into them.
res, I actually agree with this. It is undeniable that an average P5 team in any season would compete for an A10 title, and in the lower conferences run away with the title. I think the sticking point is that results should matter. We may call Clemson and Marquette P5/6 middling teams and on a neutral court, SBU did beat them. They routed MU and sit nearly 20 spots behind them. Game location matters and the power conferences point to a bunch of home wins and then "quality losses" as reasons for high rankings? The methodology shouldn't be a secret. Publish it and let the math nerds explain why the numbers are or are not a good evaluation.
 

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It will change over to candy canes soon.

PS-I was given a good life due to turkeys. My pops is a retired poultry Veterinarian and we owned a turkey farm. I spent many Saturdays traveling to that farm. I would sweep the legs of the turkeys (I could hold five to six in each hand) and put them into trucks headed for processing. Nothing like a summer job picking eggs or sucking the guts out of turkeys on a processing line.
Were the Turkeys named LaRusso?
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,160 ·
This turkey history explains a lot of the postings on this board.

Meanwhile, if net (small net) efficiency matters so much (difference between offensive and defensive numbers) why don't power teams (except for ticket revenue) go on the road (good for algorithm) and schedule weaker teams, driving their efficiency numbers up from the expected blowout? I guess they'd really have to be selective and pick middling lower teams that might end up with good records because of the TVI deal.

A question only JP could love.
 
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