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Discussion Starter #1
Heard Mitchell on the Fan this morning, talking about how one game they lost because they shot poorly, one game they lost because they gave the other team 49 FT, another they lost because they got outrebounded...I wanted to scream 'you're the second worst defensive team in the NBA! You're giving up 107 point a game!' He must have blamed each individual loss on a different thing, I think only one of them did he blame on the defense. Am I alone in thinking that at the end of the day the fundamental problem this team has is its porous defense (caused in some part by its inability to get rebounds on their own end of the court)?
 

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^^ Absolutley. Its all about the Defence. We have plenty of good scorers, just a matter of stopping the other team. The main problem IMO is the runs they give up where it goes from the Raps hanging around down 6 points to being down 14-17 points. It usually happens all at once.
 

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Yup defence is right. Speaking of D...I almost cried watching Bosh's defence on Webber last night.
 

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GuelphRaptorsFan said:
Am I alone in thinking that at the end of the day the fundamental problem this team has is its porous defense (caused in some part by its inability to get rebounds on their own end of the court)?
no you are Certainly not alone - I am right beside you in agreement.

Webber was 6 for 6 on WIDE OPEN jumpers in before the game was 10 min old. for example.

Mitchell is lost - I really like what he brings to the team in terms of nurturing young players and I can see how he was hired it was not a "mistake".

<b>This team will not get a wiff of .500 under sam.</b>
When sam came to town he wanted to employ a run and gun offence - mistake 1.
On his very first interview he was with chuck and I called in and said

<b>"Sam how is it that you want to run and gun when the elite teams *with talent* (sacremento, dallas, t-wolves) who run and gun have terrible play off records."</b>

What Sam said scare the crap out of me...

<b>Well we do not have players who are naturally good defenders so we are going to play to our strength... When we were in milwakee we practiced defense all day long and never got better so what is the point".

GASP!
 

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Sam is just being realistic. He never said our D was good. He said we could have won each of those game if we had done something else right, despite our bad D.

And he's right. We could have beaten WAS, SEA, UTA, and PHI even with our bad D.

Obviously being a better defensive team would give us many more chances to win games. And Sam would love us to be better defensively. But you can't design a system that plays to your players weakest area. And in our case D is by far our weakest area.

You can criticize him for playing uptempo without the talent, but couldn't you also criticize him for playing slow-it-down defensive style without the talent for that system? People hated watching that KO team. They were begging for uptempo entertainment.

And the Raps are not run'n'gun by any means. Their system is to work the ball around and try to attack and get easy looks. Sam is not encouraging taking quick shots.
 

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lucky777s said:
People hated watching that KO team. They were begging for uptempo entertainment.
KO was a flawed coach and could not make it in the league as a head coach he was to absolute period. BUT.

With a starting line up of
Davis (6'9 no talent big man)
JYD (paid millions to leave league)
Peterson (not a top line player)
Carter
Williams/palacio

they were 8-8 and had played some really good teams (like the rockets) and won. Raps have way more talent now IMO and are getting blown out of games in the first quarter... I mean they are getting waxed killed totally dominated...

what is more they were in every game (with KO) - there is nothing more BOARING than watching the first quarter of last nights game where the opposition scores on their first 19 trips down the floor - that is exasperating.
 

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hey,
remember when the Knicks lost all those games in a row and Brown came out and said "maybe they need to fire the coach" (not the exact words). The man was joking (or so the soundbyte sounded like), but there he was, arguably one of the best coaches in the association willing to take it on the chin for the team.

Sam you where fine last year when you gave us crazy quotes, now you're getting lame!
 

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I agree the Raps were much better with AD/JYD than with Jalen/Donny. That trade ended up being very bad for us, despite looking like a steal at the time. We lost all our toughness and grit. There was nobody left to do the dirt work. Jalen was a bad influence on Carter who immediately started to play soft.

But after the CHI trade the Raps were not really 'in' every game. Yes, the games got close down the stretch but just like this year they found themselves down 20 points in almost every game at some point. And that was with playing a very slow style. Relying on the 3pt shot will do that. When you hit a cold patch you get behind quick, and when you hit a hot patch you catch up quick.

In the end Easy shots beat Hard shots on most nights. Layups and FT's will beat mid range J's and 3's.

I didn't mind playing low scoring games. I didn't find those games boring at all. But the board was filled with whining and complaining about it. Now they whine and complain about the opposite situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I mind low-scoring games. But I wouldn't mind seeing the Raptors hold opponents to, say, under 100 points a game. So lets hope the Raptors' good defenders (Woods, Bosh, James, Calderon, Graham) get some more minutes.
 

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GuelphRaptorsFan said:
I mind low-scoring games. But I wouldn't mind seeing the Raptors hold opponents to, say, under 100 points a game. So lets hope the Raptors' good defenders (Woods, Bosh, James, Calderon, Graham) get some more minutes.
hate to say it, but bosh and calderon are a big part of the problem. bosh has what 3 blocks this year? and very few fouls. i'm not sure what it is, but his D is looking pretty soft.
 

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Defense=Team Effort
Defense=Team Effort
Defense=Team Effort
Defense=Team Effort
Defense=Team Effort


Sam can't be serious when he says "I don't have good defenders, so I'm going to neglect the defensive end".
I'll give you an example of what a good coach can do:
Last year, Maccabi Tel-Aviv has dominated the Euroleague.
They played 4 on 5 in defense most of the time. They had an average+ defense. Why?
Good defensive system. Team Effort.
You can have a terrible defense even when you have Bruce Bowen on your team.
Because one or two players doesn't make such difference. If you have a good coach he will know how to hide to weaknesses of the poor defenders on the team.
Sam doesn't know how to do that. I'd like the club to keep him as an assistant. But he's not a good head coach. Not yet.

With such an inexperienced team, you must have an experienced coach.
 
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crimedog said:
hate to say it, but bosh and calderon are a big part of the problem. bosh has what 3 blocks this year? and very few fouls. i'm not sure what it is, but his D is looking pretty soft.
what is it that Calderon did????? he plays better defense then almost everybody on this team...i dont htinkts fair to blame him..he gives a 100% effort every night..what more can u ask....
 

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Divine Spammer said:
Defense=Team Effort
Defense=Team Effort
Defense=Team Effort
Defense=Team Effort
Defense=Team Effort


Sam can't be serious when he says "I don't have good defenders, so I'm going to neglect the defensive end".
I'll give you an example of what a good coach can do:
Last year, Maccabi Tel-Aviv has dominated the Euroleague.
They played 4 on 5 in defense most of the time. They had an average+ defense. Why?
Good defensive system. Team Effort.
You can have a terrible defense even when you have Bruce Bowen on your team.
Because one or two players doesn't make such difference. If you have a good coach he will know how to hide to weaknesses of the poor defenders on the team.
Sam doesn't know how to do that. I'd like the club to keep him as an assistant. But he's not a good head coach. Not yet.

With such an inexperienced team, you must have an experienced coach.

Good points - especially relating to inexperience. I, like a lot of Raps fans have long pushed for a young exciting team. I forgot about just how frustrating that can be. Last night Mike Jame and Mo Pete were the only veterans getting serious playing time. THe kids just need more time to work it out, and it will be tough in the meantime. Think last years Bulls starting 0-9. We have even more young guys than they did.

The young players make mistakes, aren't used to the competition, don't get the calls ( as well as Jalen) and have only a few games together as a unit. I think back on the clippers for years with their young talent, and its only now that some has been jetisoned in favour of experience that there are playing well. Maybe we'll have to do that as well, collect a bunch of young guys and then trade a few once we know who is our core.
 

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i hope for a turn around from mitchell and the raps this season and hope these losses are bennifical for grooming a young team....

but here's a little something to give raptor fans something to smile about...



my quote: mitchell pleads with the refs to put six raptors on the floor in the final minutes of the game...

real caption in michell's defence (from espn.com)
Toronto Raptors head coach Sam Mitchell yells to players during the final minutes of action against the Philadelphia 76ers in Toronto, Wednesday Nov. 16, 2005. The Raptors remain winless with the 121-115 loss. (AP PHOTO/CP, Adrian Wyld)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
hate to say it, but bosh and calderon are a big part of the problem. bosh has what 3 blocks this year? and very few fouls. i'm not sure what it is, but his D is looking pretty soft.
Well, its a matter of personal opinion, but I disagree. I'm by no means saying that Bosh and Calderon are at this stages in their careers really good defenders, but they are two of the better ones the Raptors have. Simple fact is that Bosh is usually up against the 1st unit and yet opponents score more when he's off the floor than when he's on it. As for the notion that you have to get lots of fouls to be a good defender, I don't buy that either. Many great defenders do end up with a lot of fouls, but that doesn't mean you can't be a good defender without getting fouls. Its kinda like penalty minutes in hockey, getting called for tripping doesn't make you physical. Anyway, I kinda lost my thread of conversation there, the main point is that I maintain that Woods, Bosh, James, Calderon and Graham are our best defenders (keeping in mind, of course, that thats a very relative term).
 

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Bosh is a bad defender. There is no way around that fact. He is not a quick player defensively. His lateral movement is weak. He routinely gets exposed on the perimeter because he is too upright and can't move laterally. And inside the paint larger men just back him down. He's at a physical disadvantage. His shotblocking should be coming from the weak side but he is not moving well enough to get there right now. Struggling with rotations.

Calderon is an energetic defender. He won't shut down any guards, but nobody in the nba can shut down PGs in the open court or off pick'n'rolls. Even our guards get into the paint at will. They just don't finish as well or get all the calls.

Jose is a very good team defender. He moves well and gets to the right spots. He sees opportunities to double and go for the steal/block. Needs to strengthen up a bit in order to help on bigger bodies and when switches occur.

Raps need a very good defender in the paint to anchor their D. If Bosh or Villy don't become that defender we will continue to struggle.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, its all semantics, I guess, but I wouldn't call Bosh a bad defender, though I wouldn't call him a good defender, either. But no matter how you slice it, he's one of the better defenders on this team, if for no other reason than his (team-relative) size. The Raptors have five defenders who are mediocre or better (Woods, Bosh, James, Calderon, Graham), some guys who are bad but not atrocious this year (Charlie V, Rose, Aaron W.) and a guys who aren't getting it done at all this year (Mo Pete, Alvin W., Bonner, Araujo).
 

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We have the ability to play good Defense, as displayed in the first quarter against Seatle (I believe)

What has made our Defense look so bad, is the opposing teams ability to score off offensive rebounds. I can't count how many times the Raptors would play good D in the half court set, force a bad shot as the shot clock is about to expire, just to have the opponent get an offensive rebound and get to run another set.

Our team is small and as intimidating as a bunny rabbit, and teams have rightfully taken advantage of it. We need SIZE, SIZE, SIZE !!!!
 
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