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Not sure who wrote that, but 1992 was no where near MJ's best statistical season.
 

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Will of Chilltown
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This topic is so outplayed.

Obviously Lebron can have a better career than MJ. Anyone can.

And MJ needs 7 rings to even be in the discussion with Robert Horry.
 

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Rip City
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This topic is so outplayed.

Obviously Lebron can have a better career than MJ. Anyone can.

And MJ needs 7 rings to even be in the discussion with Robert Horry.
Unfortunately Jordan can't go back in time, and become a defined role player. Like Robert Horry, MJ was the captain and catalyst as the best player in the world on the last NBA Dynasty... won every single ring and Finals MVP with the same team...

Horry, good player, no doubt, but got run in the league with the Dream, Shaq, Kobe, and Parker,Duncan. Let's not pretend his seven rings were being ushered in by his sheer brilliance and desire. He added what was needed in the gaps, and did it well. But those chips have more to do with the best players on his teams .. than him. We can't replace the Dream, Shaq, and Duncan with anyone else ..

Yeah LBJ got a long way to go B4 we start comparing careers with MJ.
 

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Unfortunately Jordan can't go back in time, and become a defined role player. Like Robert Horry, MJ was the captain and catalyst as the best player in the world on the last NBA Dynasty... won every single ring and Finals MVP with the same team...

Horry, good player, no doubt, but got run in the league with the Dream, Shaq, Kobe, and Parker,Duncan. Let's not pretend his seven rings were being ushered in by his sheer brilliance and desire. He added what was needed in the gaps, and did it well. But those chips have more to do with the best players on his teams .. than him. We can't replace the Dream, Shaq, and Duncan with anyone else ..

Yeah LBJ got a long way to go B4 we start comparing careers with MJ.
 

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Unfortunately Jordan can't go back in time, and become a defined role player. Like Robert Horry, MJ was the captain and catalyst as the best player in the world on the last NBA Dynasty... won every single ring and Finals MVP with the same team...

Horry, good player, no doubt, but got run in the league with the Dream, Shaq, Kobe, and Parker,Duncan. Let's not pretend his seven rings were being ushered in by his sheer brilliance and desire. He added what was needed in the gaps, and did it well. But those chips have more to do with the best players on his teams .. than him. We can't replace the Dream, Shaq, and Duncan with anyone else ..

Yeah LBJ got a long way to go B4 we start comparing careers with MJ.
If I had to guess, Drizzay is simply pointing out that # of championships isn't the defining statistic in a players career.


Every time this topic is started it goes straight to # of Championships/MVPs. How about we just focus on the actual players themselves. Their games. Their statistical dominance etc. Not just accolades that are really at the mercy of the team/front office to build the actual team around them. Jordan is obviously a dominant player(and GOAT) but he probably wouldn't of had those rings(and possibly those MVPs) without the Bulls putting Pippen/Rodma(maybe even Grant/Harper) around him to make it a team. Just like Lebron couldn't get it done in Cleveland(though he made a hell of a try).
 

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Look at your favorite team, now back to mine, mine
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If I had to guess, Drizzay is simply pointing out that # of championships isn't the defining statistic in a players career.


Every time this topic is started it goes straight to # of Championships/MVPs. How about we just focus on the actual players themselves. Their games. Their statistical dominance etc. Not just accolades that are really at the mercy of the team/front office to build the actual team around them. Jordan is obviously a dominant player(and GOAT) but he probably wouldn't of had those rings(and possibly those MVPs) without the Bulls putting Pippen/Rodma(maybe even Grant/Harper) around him to make it a team. Just like Lebron couldn't get it done in Cleveland(though he made a hell of a try).
A hell of a try in my opinion is a huge understatement. I think people don't take into account how much of an impact he made for the Cavaliers when he played for them. I think if anything, what he did in Cleveland should add onto his legacy, not tarnish it like many people suggest it does.
 

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I don't consider titles the be-all, end-all, but they are pretty important. And seeing as LeBron does not have Jordan's numbers (4 seasons of well over 30 ppg on well over 50% shooting, plus a few more seasons of right about 30 and 50%), he would at least need to equal Jordan in titles before it becomes a real discussion. The only two seasons of LeBron's career that could even be considered Jordan-esque are this season and last season.

Did those incompetent ****tards in Cleveland sabotage LeBron by giving him shit teammates? Yes. But anything LeBron/the Cavs could have accomplished otherwise is all conjecture. Alternate realities aren't terribly relevant to who's better discussions.
 

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Curse of the Sonics
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Titles mean nothing in individual comparisons. No player has ever won an NBA championship.

In terms of peak value, LeBron can absolutely be compared to Jordan. He has put together some of the most impactful and statistically dominant seasons ever while being a dominant defender in the process, much like Jordan.

In terms of career, obviously LeBron can't compare yet, because he hasn't finished his career. He is 28. We can't fairly compare their careers for a few more years because Jordan has the easy advantage right now.
 

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Will of Chilltown
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If I had to guess, Drizzay is simply pointing out that # of championships isn't the defining statistic in a players career.


Every time this topic is started it goes straight to # of Championships/MVPs. How about we just focus on the actual players themselves. Their games. Their statistical dominance etc. Not just accolades that are really at the mercy of the team/front office to build the actual team around them. Jordan is obviously a dominant player(and GOAT) but he probably wouldn't of had those rings(and possibly those MVPs) without the Bulls putting Pippen/Rodma(maybe even Grant/Harper) around him to make it a team. Just like Lebron couldn't get it done in Cleveland(though he made a hell of a try).
Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. Someone actually got it on this board for once. Kudo's to you my friend.
 

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Curse of the Sonics
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being the lead dog on a title team however, is meaningful - but it still needs to be contextualized
Being the best player on the team that wins a championship seems to mean just that, and not much more. It's not a reason to say Chauncey Billups is better than Chris Paul.
 

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Titles mean nothing in individual comparisons. No player has ever won an NBA championship.
Great players win championships, providing the pieces around them are in place.

In terms of peak value, LeBron can absolutely be compared to Jordan. He has put together some of the most impactful and statistically dominant seasons ever while being a dominant defender in the process, much like Jordan.
87-88... 35.0ppg/53.5 FG%
88-89... 32.5ppg/53.8 FG%
89-90... 33.6ppg/52.6 FG%
90-91... 31.5ppg/53.9 FG%

All while being the best defender in the league. Not just dominant. The only seasons LeBron's had that can even compete with that or anything Jordan did from 87-93 (seven seasons) are this season and last season.
 

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Being the best player on the team that wins a championship seems to mean just that, and not much more. It's not a reason to say Chauncey Billups is better than Chris Paul.
by itself no it's not, but it certainly belongs on the resume - of course you have to factor in the teammates and the competition faced and other variables but to say it's meaningless? if Mike never wins any championships, no one talks about him being the GOAT
 

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Curse of the Sonics
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Great teams win championships
Fixed.

87-88... 35.0ppg/53.5 FG%
88-89... 32.5ppg/53.8 FG%
89-90... 33.6ppg/52.6 FG%
90-91... 31.5ppg/53.9 FG%

All while being the best defender in the league. Not just dominant. The only seasons LeBron's had that can even compete with that or anything Jordan did from 87-93 (seven seasons) are this season and last season.
I agree Jordan was a better scorer, if that's what you're attempting to prove by posting scoring totals and scoring efficiency (although FG% is a horribly uninformative statistic when talking about scoring efficiency). Jordan was never the all-around player than LeBron is, though. LeBron is clearly a better passer than Jordan was, better rebounder, while also being a dominant scorer of great efficiency. And calling LeBron the best defender in the league right now is every bit as credible as saying Jordan was back then. The league was just more open to (offensive) superstars getting defensive awards back then. Not so much anymore (Tim Duncan has never won a DPoY). LeBron is great as a help defender, an on-ball defender, and is far more versatile defensively than Jordan was (guarding everyone from 6'1 Derrick Rose to 7'0 Pau Gasol effectively).

The argument for LeBron is there if you aren't hypnotized by titles. And if you are, I'm not sure why you'd have Jordan (or anyone) over Russell on your all-time lists. 11 > 6.
 

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Curse of the Sonics
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by itself no it's not, but it certainly belongs on the resume - of course you have to factor in the teammates and the competition faced and other variables but to say it's meaningless? if Mike never wins any championships, no one talks about him being the GOAT
That's largely the problem.

Titles belong on a resume, but they don't add value to an individual player in comparison to other individuals. It's like if a player beat a life threatening disease to come back and be an all-time great. That belongs on the resume as contributing to that players greatness, but it holds zero value when comparing to other players. It can't be used to trump other similar caliber players who didn't beat a life threatening disease. It's a story. Winning a title is basically a nice story.
 

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Better Call Saul
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Titles matter. The point of playing any sport is to win. Not being the prettiest player on a hollinger stat line.

That being said, titles do need to be seen in the proper context, like the players role on the team, supporting cast, competition etc. but great players find a way to win titles. Can anyone name a guy in their top ten that doesn't have at least one title?
 

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Great players lead them there.

I agree Jordan was a better scorer, if that's what you're attempting to prove by posting scoring totals and scoring efficiency (although FG% is a horribly uninformative statistic when talking about scoring efficiency). Jordan was never the all-around player than LeBron is, though. LeBron is clearly a better passer than Jordan was, better rebounder, while also being a dominant scorer of great efficiency.
Jordan is easily the better scorer and easily the better defender. LeBron for the most part averages a full rebound more than Jordan did in his prime seven years, while Jordan averages a full steal more than LeBron. Since either event ultimately equals a possession for your team, I'm willing to call push on that. So we're left with passing. LeBron is definitely the better passer, but that will not be nearly enough to unseat Jordan as the GOAT.

And calling LeBron the best defender in the league right now is every bit as credible as saying Jordan was back then. The league was just more open to (offensive) superstars getting defensive awards back then. Not so much anymore (Tim Duncan has never won a DPoY). LeBron is great as a help defender, an on-ball defender, and is far more versatile defensively than Jordan was (guarding everyone from 6'1 Derrick Rose to 7'0 Pau Gasol effectively).
First, I never said LeBron wasn't the best defender in the league right now. Jordan was better though.

Second, how did awards become a part of this? Individual awards that are voted on are bullshit.

The argument for LeBron is there if you aren't hypnotized by titles. And if you are, I'm not sure why you'd have Jordan (or anyone) over Russell on your all-time lists. 11 > 6.
Because I already said that titles aren't the be-all end-all, they're just one of the factors. Albeit an important one.
 

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That's largely the problem.

Titles belong on a resume, but they don't add value to an individual player in comparison to other individuals. It's like if a player beat a life threatening disease to come back and be an all-time great. That belongs on the resume as contributing to that players greatness, but it holds zero value when comparing to other players. It can't be used to trump other similar caliber players who didn't beat a life threatening disease. It's a story. Winning a title is basically a nice story.
bullshit - if you cant tell me the difference between Mike and Chauncey or Chauncey and Paul just on the eye test alone then number of titles arent going to help you one way or another

but being the main guy on a team to the extent that Mike was and winning multiple titles is deserving of significant credit and Lebron hasnt accomplished that yet - he might, he's set up to make a run at it - but he hasnt and that is one of the significant and tangible things that separates him from Mike
 
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