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dont get me wrong hes a good player but its clear that hes playing for name on the back of his jersey and not the front!! he clearly sacrafices his play for the detrement of the team!!!!!!
 

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i dunno, i juss have a feelin he wants to be the hero everytime. he'll pass during the course of the game, but during crunch time he wants to be the guy...that's his problem.
 

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speedythief said:
Is that what you meant to say, because it doesn't make sense.
squaleca not making sense? hmmm, there's a first for everything...
 

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duke of new york, a#1
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Team Mao said:
There isn't another upcoming FA who has talked about contracts to the media as much as Mike James has this season. If this isn't a huge red flag, then I don't know what is.
I don't disagree that he's playing for a contract, clearly he is, and he's admitted that. I do take issue with the notion that he would rather use us as a catapult than try to help us win games. Guys that come from winning teams usually get more money than guys from losing ones. And despite tonight's game I don't think James has hurt us this season anywhere near as much as he has helped.
 

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speedythief said:
I don't disagree that he's playing for a contract, clearly he is, and he's admitted that. I do take issue with the notion that he would rather use us as a catapult than try to help us win games. Guys that come from winning teams usually get more money than guys from losing ones. And despite tonight's game I don't think James has hurt us this season anywhere near as much as he has helped.
I would argue that his me-first offense may have helped us a little this year, but long-term development-wise it has held us back. Without a proper PG to develop a strong offense on the court, our young team will go into next year without a good idea of how to play 'team offense'. This has been two straight seasons of this (first Alston, then James). When you watch teams who have a 'team-first' guard, the offense has a much better flow and the entire team seems involved, regardless of whether or not they get touches. Watching a team led by a 'me-first' guard, you often see players simply standing around and not looking like any sort of team while on offense.

I think the 'team first' and 'me first' is a better way to describe PGs than pass first or shoot first. Me vs team is mentality, pass and shoot is action. Guys like Billups and Parker, who have been brought up in other threads about PGs are both more shooting oriented, but their mentality seems more 'team first' and their team's offense reflects that.
 

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squaleca said:
dont get me wrong hes a good player but its clear that hes playing for name on the back of his jersey and not the front!! he clearly sacrafices his play for the detrement of the team!!!!!!
Are you kidding me, Jordan is the greatest ever!

In all seriousness, I won't be pissed if we let him walk or if we resign him. The only thing that could really piss me off about him is if he makes any more than 6 million, I think a 4 year 22 million dollar contract would be fair.
 

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duke of new york, a#1
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Team Mao said:
I would argue that his me-first offense may have helped us a little this year, but long-term development-wise it has held us back. Without a proper PG to develop a strong offense on the court, our young team will go into next year without a good idea of how to play 'team offense'. This has been two straight seasons of this (first Alston, then James). When you watch teams who have a 'team-first' guard, the offense has a much better flow and the entire team seems involved, regardless of whether or not they get touches. Watching a team led by a 'me-first' guard, you often see players simply standing around and not looking like any sort of team while on offense.

I think the 'team first' and 'me first' is a better way to describe PGs than pass first or shoot first. Me vs team is mentality, pass and shoot is action. Guys like Billups and Parker, who have been brought up in other threads about PGs are both more shooting oriented, but their mentality seems more 'team first' and their team's offense reflects that.
What evidence to you have to support your claim that we either don't have or need "a proper PG to develop a strong offense on the court"?

As far as I can see we are scoring more points this season than ever before. Our field goal percentage is the highest its been since our inaugural year. We have two players having career years (Bosh @ ~23ppg, Mo Pete @ ~16ppg) not including Mike James. 101 points per game on 46% shooting, with two 20 point scorers and another at 16, with our top four scorers combining for more than 70 points a night--that's bad? I don't think you can get very far with the "stand around offense" argument.

You can go ahead and look at Billups and Parker if you want. They have the 18th and 21st ranked offenses in the NBA in terms of scoring. We score more points on less assists, and we do it with far less talented players both in quality and quantity. Would you rather have Mike James getting 8 assists a game instead of 6 if it meant our team scoring 4 less points a night? Sounds strange but it's true of the teams you've noted. Detroit is the second-most unselfish team in the NBA (total APG) behind Phoenix, yet we score more points a game and do it at a higher field goal percentage.

And neither Billups nor Paker nor Fisher, the last three PG's to win titles, could be considered "floor generals" when they won. Mike's assists per game now are higher than either Fisher or Billups in their title runs and very close to Parker's.
 

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You Can't The Kind Of Player He Is, When He Was With The Detroit Pistons Thats What He Did When He Came Off The Bench, And Thats How Larry Wanted Him To Play!

Bring Energy To The Floor, Make Shots, Give Out A Couple Of Assists. That's The Type Of Player He Is!
 

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speedythief said:
What evidence to you have to support your claim that we either don't have or need "a proper PG to develop a strong offense on the court"?

As far as I can see we are scoring more points this season than ever before. Our field goal percentage is the highest its been since our inaugural year. We have two players having career years (Bosh @ ~23ppg, Mo Pete @ ~16ppg) not including Mike James. 101 points per game on 46% shooting, with two 20 point scorers and another at 16, with our top four scorers combining for more than 70 points a night--that's bad? I don't think you can get very far with the "stand around offense" argument.
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I watch the games, that's the evidence that I use for my 'stand around offense'. Watching the games, are you really happy with our offensive sets? No numbers, no percentages, is it a good system?

Just because you like numbers so much, I found some nice ones. The Raps are 21st in APG and have the leagues worst APG differential at -3.77.

Do you think Chris Bosh's career year could have to do with this being only his 3rd year and still being only 21? Or maybe because it's his first full year of being 'the man' on the team? I don't think it's either, I think it has more to do with Mike James.

How about MoPete? Last year he was splitting minutes with Vince (half a season), Rose, and Eric Williams who was demanding minutes after he came here. Do you think that having consistent minutes and being the number one wing has anything to do with MoPete having a career year? Nope, me neither, it's because of Mike James.
 

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duke of new york, a#1
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Team Mao said:
I watch the games, that's the evidence that I use for my 'stand around offense'. Watching the games, are you really happy with our offensive sets? No numbers, no percentages, is it a good system?
Our offense works. 9 times out of 10 it's our defense that lets us down.

Just because you like numbers so much, I found some nice ones. The Raps are 21st in APG and have the leagues worst APG differential at -3.77.
Mike James is doing his part, though. He's had several double-digit assist games. The difference between how many assists we get and how many Detroit gets isn't point guard play, it's having other passers on the floor. Our PG's combine for around 11 apg, which I think is decent.

A lot of that has to do with on-court chemistry, which isn't developed overnight unless your point guard is Steve Nash. As our players get more used to playing with one another they will be able to ancitipate.

Do you think Chris Bosh's career year could have to do with this being only his 3rd year and still being only 21? Or maybe because it's his first full year of being 'the man' on the team? I don't think it's either, I think it has more to do with Mike James.

How about MoPete? Last year he was splitting minutes with Vince (half a season), Rose, and Eric Williams who was demanding minutes after he came here. Do you think that having consistent minutes and being the number one wing has anything to do with MoPete having a career year? Nope, me neither, it's because of Mike James.
Or maybe our offense isn't as terrible as you make it out to be. Bosh gets as many touches as he demands, which is the focal point of our offense, so that is working. MJ is our second option and he scores around 20 points at a high clip. Mo Pete is our third and he's scoring more points from pull-up jump shots and lane crashers than ever before--he's not camping in the corner all game 'standing-around'. Charlie scores in a variety of ways.

Our points per game would be even higher if guys like Matt Bonner, traditionally good shooters, could knock down their shots. We might be as high as third in the NBA in points per game behind Phoenix and Seattle if that were the case.

At some point getting it done is getting it done.
 

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Speedy,
Next time you watch a game I want you to play a little game. Count how many of our offensive possessions are Mike James bringing the ball up, not passing it, then shooting. At the same time, count how many times the opposing teams offense does that. I think you'll be surprised with the results. But you seem to be convinced that our offense is great, you do understand the difference between means and end, don't you?

Or maybe our offense isn't as terrible as you make it out to be. Bosh gets as many touches as he demands, which is the focal point of our offense, so that is working. MJ is our second option and he scores around 20 points at a high clip. Mo Pete is our third and he's scoring more points from pull-up jump shots and lane crashers than ever before--he's not camping in the corner all game 'standing-around'. Charlie scores in a variety of ways.
So it is Mike James and not MoPete and Bosh developing based on the more obvious factors. THanks for clearing that one up.
 

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duke of new york, a#1
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Team Mao said:
Next time you watch a game I want you to play a little game. Count how many of our offensive possessions are Mike James bringing the ball up, not passing it, then shooting. At the same time, count how many times the opposing teams offense does that. I think you'll be surprised with the results. But you seem to be convinced that our offense is great, you do understand the difference between means and end, don't you?
Point guards scoring in excess of 18ppg:

Allen Iverson (25.4 spg)
Gilbert Arenas (20.7 spg)
Mike Bibby (16.9 spg)
Steve Nash (13.6 spg)
Mike James (15.3 spg)
Tony Parker (14.4 spg)
Chauncey Billups (12.9 spg)

Nash and Parker both have better field goal percentages than James, requiring less shots. Other point guards (scoring double-digits per) with better field goal percentages are 'Dre Miller, Delonte West, and Jason Terry.

IMO it's hard to complain about the volume of shots Mike takes considering he is one of the most efficient scoring point guards in the NBA. If he was taking so many bad shots it would be reflected in either his shooting percentage or the teams overall offensive production, which it isn't.

He's almost scoring 20 points a night and as far as production goes, he's not stealing those points from Bosh, Peterson, or Villanueva, two of whom are producing at career-high levels. Mike is creating points for himself, not taking them away from other players. What's so bad about that?

So it is Mike James and not MoPete and Bosh developing based on the more obvious factors. THanks for clearing that one up.
You are trying to identify a problem with our offense that doesn't have a direct affect on our scoring production, field goal percentage, or on our most important individual offensive players. The problem you see is not quantifiable. Show me it exists beyond saying 'James is a shoot-first guard' or 'we don't have an effective offensive system.'
 
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