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Restore the Roar
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Discussion Starter #1
Primarily AL MVP, and my thoughts on Mike Trout...

What nobody seems to want to say about Mike Trout: he was nothing more than a decent MVP candidate for most of the season. They say that "it doesn't matter when the numbers are produced, just that they happened." - However a massive amount of Trout's value in those counting statistics came in July. In 97 at bats, about 1/6 of his total he compiled 10 (1/3) of his homeruns, 23 (1/4) of his RBI, and produced an ENORMOUS spike in BA/OBP/SLG and as a result OPS. He juiced his numbers over a 24 game sample size to such an extent that his overall numbers for the season at the plate look to be on par with Cabrera.

If you pair his second best month with Cabrera's 2nd best, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc... All the way down the line: Mike Trout looks considerably worse than Miguel Cabrera. They say that the numbers count no matter where you get them, but he lumped a vast chunk of his value into 24 games of a 162 game season. If you look at the other 138? He doesn't jump out as nearly the MVP candidate that we're all saying he is.

He produced as a legit all star, and candidate for MVP votes, all season long. But he wasn't this unstoppable superstar all season. Not by a long shot. And then he finished out the season, following that superlative month, with two months firmly in the mid .800s... the rest of the season on the whole he had an OPS hovering around .900. Great, but not MVP numbers.
 

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Restore the Roar
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Discussion Starter #3
Cabrera did his damage all season long, Trout's was limited to a massive pop of 24 games in July. Remove each player's best month and here's what you get over the course of the rest of their seasons, you can figure out for yourself which is which:


462AB (114 GAMES)
144H / 21 2B / 6 3B / 20 HR
55 BB
5 HBP

BA .311
OBP .390
SLG .512
OPS .902

97R
60RBI
40SB/5CS
=================================
524AB (145 GAMES)
170H / 34 2B / 0 3B / 36 HR
54 BB
2 HBP

BA .324
OBP .390
SLG .595
OPS .985

90R
115RBI
4SB/1CS
 

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I want Waffles.
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Gonna be a sad day for Baseball when a guy that wins the Triple Crown + Leads his team to the World Series doesnt win the MVP award because of the f'n WAR stat

Such a bullshit stat
 

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I can't think of any logical argument for why Trout shouldn't be the MVP. For awhile I thought here was a case to be made about Cabrera's production coming in high leverage situations which leads to more wins, but then I read this which pretty much blows that theory out of the water:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/trout-versus-cabrera-offense-only-context-included/

If Cabrera wasn't even the decisively better offensive player, how can you possibly make a case for him once you factor in defense and baserunning?

You're right about one thing though, numbers count no matter when you get them.
 

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Gonna be a sad day for Baseball when a guy that wins the Triple Crown + Leads his team to the World Series doesnt win the MVP award because of the f'n WAR stat

Such a bullshit stat
What are you crazy? Tigers's pitching staff led them to the world series. Cabrera hit .265 with 2 homeruns in the entire post season. If we want to talk about hitting in the post season Delmon Young was your guy not Miguel.

The triple crown is nice and everything and I don't mind giving him the MVP title for such a rare feat(despite what bullshit stat RBI is it's still a feat). However if you solely look at what each player brought to his team Trout is the runaway winner in that category. Trout basically did everything that can be done on the field as good as anyone in the league. Hit for average, power, stole bases, got on bases, outstanding defense, everything. You compare that to Cabrera who was a better offensive player (although the gap isn't that great) but is inferior everything else.
 

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Restore the Roar
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Discussion Starter #7
Okay, so the Tigers have repeat champs. So who wins it next year?

Max Scherzer - 210IP/250K/2.25 ERA?
Austin Jackson - .335/.410/.560/202B/203B/20SB/20HR season and a gold glove?
Avisail "Little Miggy" Garcia - .350/.420/.350 season with 0 XBH?
 

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**** the clippers
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Gonna be a sad day for Baseball when a guy that wins the Triple Crown + Leads his team to the World Series doesnt win the MVP award because of the f'n WAR stat

Such a bullshit stat
So WAR is bullshit, but RBI is legit?
 

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Ya because i forgot you can Tie in baseball you dont need anyone to drive in Runs for your team
You also forgot that RBI doesn't require your teammates to get on base, which has nothing to do with you.

Consider this post post-edit just to save Dornado the trouble of editing out the personal attacks that you clearly deserve.
 

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I want Waffles.
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You also forgot that RBI doesn't require your teammates to get on base, which has nothing to do with you.

Consider this post post-edit just to save Dornado the trouble of editing out the personal attacks that you clearly deserve.
Please explain to me why RBIs dont matter. Please lets hear this dumbass statement about how a baseball game is won without a RBI. Just because a guy cant control if his teammate gets on base to give him a RBI chance doesnt mean the stat is worthless. Lets punish the people that hit Solo HR also well we are at it

Let just take the RBI out of Baseball because people want to cry about how other Players can control when they get a RBI chance. Boo f'n Hoo
 

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Keep hanging yourself on the dumbass stat that is WAR. Because here is your leader from 2011.

But WAR is not the end-all to determine value. It should be noted that Tampa Bay's Ben Zobrist led baseball with an 8.5 WAR last season. The utility player hit .269 with 20 homers and 91 runs batted in and finished 16th in the AL MVP vote.
I dont need some dumb stat that combine everything then compairs it to a fictional player in Triple A to tell me who the best players in Baseball are. Trout was the best overall player last year when you Combine Defense/Base Running and Hitting but he wasnt the MVP

If you need a computer generated stat to tell you who you think the best players in Baseballare then go ahead
 

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do better
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What the **** is WAR....is that their answer to PER

I don't even follow baseball any more...but all I know is a Triple Crown = automatic MVP **** everything else you're talking about. Don't outsmart yourselves with this TI-83 bullshit..
 

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What the **** is WAR....is that their answer to PER

I don't even follow baseball any more...but all I know is a Triple Crown = automatic MVP **** everything else you're talking about. Don't outsmart yourselves with this TI-83 bullshit..
Except the 4 times in history when it wasn't.

Cabrera is a well deserved MVP winner, but the notion that you win because you reached a milestone based solely upon arbitrary benchmarks, is hogwash. That goes for WAR as well.
 

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I want Waffles.
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What the **** is WAR....is that their answer to PER

I don't even follow baseball any more...but all I know is a Triple Crown = automatic MVP **** everything else you're talking about. Don't outsmart yourselves with this TI-83 bullshit..
Yes it the answer to PER and your are 100% correct people are out thinking themself because of some dumbass computer generated stat that tells me Ben Zobrist was the best player in baseball last year

Im so glad i can make decision by myself and dont have to live off of something a made up stat tells me
 

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Please explain to me why RBIs dont matter. Please lets hear this dumbass statement about how a baseball game is won without a RBI. Just because a guy cant control if his teammate gets on base to give him a RBI chance doesnt mean the stat is worthless. Lets punish the people that hit Solo HR also well we are at it

Let just take the RBI out of Baseball because people want to cry about how other Players can control when they get a RBI chance. Boo f'n Hoo
lol....you give joek good competition in terms of being a clueless baseball fan.

For starters the opportunity for a player to get a rbi is independent of the player's actual performance. If a guy has a runner in scoring position more times than the next player, how is getting more rbi's an achievement when you look solely on the final stat? Not to mention Mike Trout is a leadoff hitter compared to Cabrera who bats 3rd, it's a retarded argument at every angle. I mean as a leadoff hitter it would be close to impossible for Trout to win a triple crown, so are you telling me that he lose by default using your logic?

But then again I guess why the MVP was given to Cabrera. The majority of baseball fans are uneducated just like you therefore this award is basically given to satisfy your kind.
 

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FSH said:
Ya because i forgot you can Tie in baseball you dont need anyone to drive in Runs for your team
FSH said:
Please explain to me why RBIs dont matter. Please lets hear this dumbass statement about how a baseball game is won without a RBI. Just because a guy cant control if his teammate gets on base to give him a RBI chance doesnt mean the stat is worthless. Lets punish the people that hit Solo HR also well we are at it

Let just take the RBI out of Baseball because people want to cry about how other Players can control when they get a RBI chance. Boo f'n Hoo
FSH said:
Yes it the answer to PER and your are 100% correct people are out thinking themself because of some dumbass computer generated stat that tells me Ben Zobrist was the best player in baseball last year

Im so glad i can make decision by myself and dont have to live off of something a made up stat tells me
FSH said:
I dont need some dumb stat that combine everything then compairs it to a fictional player in Triple A to tell me who the best players in Baseball are. Trout was the best overall player last year when you Combine Defense/Base Running and Hitting but he wasnt the MVP
First of all, just because you don't understand a stat doesn't mean it's stupid. Let's get that out of the way.

Secondly, you yourself just said Trout was the best overall player in the league last year when you look at all aspects of the game (offense, defense, base running).

Explain to me your logic then in Cabrera over Trout if Trout is a better player and the Angels won more games than the Tigers. Does the fact that the Tigers are in the AL Central and the Angels are in the AL West in and of itself make Cabrera the MVP? Is it Trout's fault Albert Pujols had the lowest batting average, on base percentage, slugging percentage and fewest home runs and runs scored in his 12 year career? Is it Trout's fault Vernon Wells sucks? Dan Haren having the worst ERA in his career -- Trout's fault? There are reasons the Angels didn't make the playoffs, none of which are Mike Trout's play. There are also reasons the Tigers made the playoffs that have absolutely nothing to do with Miguel Cabrera.

Also, please answer this question. If Miguel Cabrera had the exact same season he had, but say Josh Hamilton had hit 2 more homers and finished with 45 to Cabrera's 44 and therefore Miggy didn't win the triple crown. Who's the MVP, Cabrera or Trout?
 
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