Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been mulling something over for a while and thought I would ask for feedback. Here goes:

1. To be a good team you need at least 2 good offensive options.

2. (my theory) These two offensive options need to be at least one position number apart.

Evidence:

Does not work
Paul Pierce/Antoine Walker 2-3 or 3-3 or 3-4.
Ray Allen/Rashard Lewis 2-3

Works
Shaq/Kobe 2/5
O'Neal/Artest 3/5
Anthony/Miller 3/1

Unknown
Kings
Mavs

I don't know. Just a thought. Comments?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,582 Posts
u have to have a good point or a inside presence. Look at all of the teams that win titles they had either one or both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,149 Posts
An interesting observation, although MJ/Pip would be the obvious exception :)

I do think that as a rule of thumb, however, you might be right.

1/2 and you're all on the outside
4/5 and you're clogging the lane
2/3 and your best guys are often theoretically starting on opposite wings and not in as good a position to play a 2 man game off each other's strengths.

Of course reality is a lot more subtle than this, but the basic proposition is accurate I think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,639 Posts
Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
MJ doesnt count he is every thing on the court same with Pip so they dont have a specific poistion.
that's true. they were our best threats on the perimeter AND in the post, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,975 Posts
The real rule is you need an inside and an outside threat. That's why MJ and Pip worked. Duncan/Parker, Kobe/Shaq, Hakeem/Clyde, Hakeem/Smith, Cassell, Maloney, Horry. Of course, I think you also need 2 legit all stars, unless you're the Rockets right after Jordan retired and the Spurs and have Duncan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,487 Posts
i partially agree. i think it would be preferable to have them at least one number apart, but i think regardless of the positions of the stars, there needs to be a good coach who's a leader, motivator, and one who can adapt his offensive and defensive systems to fit his star players.

look at Hakeem/Smith, Cassell, Maloney, Horry. the staple? isolation to the Dream who kicked it out to the perimeter guys for jump shots. same when elie, maxwell, and other guys were there. then when Rudy T had mobley and francis, he let the two guards freelance and penetrate, then kick the ball outside.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,919 Posts
Bird and McHale? Isaiah and Dumars? Mike and Scottie? All pretty big exceptions.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
780 Posts
i dont beleave it matters where they are,but for a fact it does take 2 to win a ring..

the bulls need to stop and look at what won us those 6 rings MJ/PIP and try and remake something as close as you can to that and rebulidin around a PF/C and youngsters is as far as you can get from that plan.

if we are going to blow this up KH and TC must stay they may not become allstars but they are as good as we are going to get at their pos so leave them alone and let them do their thing.

next we need someone who can flatout score(a SG)takes it to the hole like a fat kid would shop in a candystore,be the overall leader who puts every game on himself to do whatever needs to be done in order to win that night.

next would be the SF pos,needs to play Lockdown D,shoot some 3 ball,and can take it to the hole.

then the C pos just needs to be someone who could be happy with 10 5-10 a night and play good D nothing big just can get the
job done.

then you fill up the rest of the roster with role players that fits around this type of team.....

thats nothing like what we have now,and if we started this kind of rebuilding today it would take the team the rest of this yr and next season to gel and get its groove b4 they made the playoffs...
 

·
I never slice.
Joined
·
2,282 Posts
History tells us that the most sure-fire was to win an NBA championship is to acquire a very high quality big man. The only other winning formula seems to be if a team can somehow acquire multiple, very high quality perimeter players that play efficiently and play above-average defense (Jamal Crawford types do not qualify) complimented by a still above-average big man. The 90's Bulls are the obvious example of this and therefore an exception.

But just look back on history. It's a big man's game. Here, I've made it easy for you:

<table border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2"> <tr> <td width="50"><b><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Year</font></b></td> <td><b><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">NBA Champion</font></b></td> <td><b><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Big Man</font></b></td> <td><b><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Comments</font></b></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">02-03</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Spurs</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Tim Duncan</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">League MVP, First-team All-NBA, 2nd in league PPI, Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">01-02</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Lakers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Shaq</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">First-team All-NBA, 3rd in league PPI, Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">00-01</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Lakers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Shaq</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">First-team All-NBA, 1st in league PPI, Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">99-00</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Lakers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Shaq</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">League MVP, First-team All-NBA, 1st in league PPI, Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">98-99</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Spurs</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">David Robinson & Tim Duncan</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Duncan First-team All-NBA, Duncan 4th in league PPI, Robinson 13th in league PPI, Duncan Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">94-95</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Rockets</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Hakeem Olajuwon</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Third-team All NBA, 2nd in league PPI, Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">93-94</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Rockets</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Hakeem Olajuwon</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">League MVP, First-team All-NBA, 3rd in league PPI, Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">89-90</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Pistons</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Bill Laimbeer</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Some may scoff at the idea of Laimbeer being dominant, and granted he was not as dominant as Shaq or Duncan. But he was a close second in PPI/game at 15.6 (Isiah was 16.9), which was 54th in the league. He was the Brad Miller of his day-- very effective, but not fully appreciated.</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">88-89</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Pistons</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Bill Laimbeer</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">In this season, Laimbeer had the top PPI/game for the Pistons (yes, ahead of both Isiah and Dumars), 41st in the league.</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">87-88</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Lakers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Kareem Abdul-Jabbar</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Possible exception. Magic and Worthy's team. Kareem past his prime, but still effective (77th in league PPI)</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">86-87</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Lakers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Kareem Abdul-Jabbar</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Past his prime, but still very effective (39th in league PPI)</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">85-86</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Celtics</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Robert Parish & Kevin McHale</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Bird the star obviously. But McHale 7th in league PPI, Parish 25th</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">84-85</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Lakers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Kareem Abdul-Jabbar</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Second-Team All-NBA, Finals MVP, 7th in league PPI</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">83-84</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Celtics</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Robert Parish & Kevin McHale</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Bird the star. But Parish 14th in league PPI and McHale 32nd. McHale 6th Man of The Year</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">82-83</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">76ers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Moses Malone</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">League MVP, First Team All-NBA, First Team All Defensive Team, 2nd in league PPI, Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">81-82</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Lakers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Kareem Abdul-Jabbar</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">6th in league PPI</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">80-81</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Celtics</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Robert Parish</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Bird the star, but Parish 10th in league PPI</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">79-80</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Lakers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Kareem Abdul-Jabbar</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">League MVP, First-Team All-NBA, 1st in league PPI</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">78-79</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Sonics</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Jack Sikma</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">23rd in league PPI</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">77-78</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Bullets</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Wes Unseld</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Elvin Hayes the star, but Unseld Finals MVP and 32nd in league PPI</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">76-77</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Blazers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Bill Walton</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Second Team All-NBA, 4th in league PPI, Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">75-76</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Celtics</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Dave Cowens</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Second Team All-NBA, First Team All-Defensive Team, 6th in league PPI</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">74-75</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Warriors</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1"> </font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Exception-- Rick Barry's team all the way. Clifford Ray 77th in league PPI</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">73-74</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Celtics</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Dave Cowens</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">9th in league PPI</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">72-73</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Knicks</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Willis Reed, Billy Paultz</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Exception-- balanced team. Paultz 25th in leauge PPI, Reed Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">71-72</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Lakers</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Wilt Chamberlain</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Second Team All-NBA, First Team All-Defensive Team, 4th in league PPI, Finals MVP</font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">70-71</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Bucks</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Kareem Abdul-Jabbar</font></td> <td><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">League MVP, First Team All-NBA, Second Team All-Defensive Team, 1st in league PPI, Finals MVP</font></td> </tr></table>
It is for this reason that I think the Bulls should not pull the plug on the Curry/Chandler rebuilding. Give them both another year-- if next season does not show any results, then we consider backing up the truck.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top