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The Future is Here
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Even though it has been a bad year, we are still pretty low, usually we are top 10 in attendances, and considering the Leafs ain't here, wouldn't you think all those people would have more money to spend on Raptor games?
 

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This is actually quite dissapointing, I would have thought that we'd at least be in the top 15.
Then again taking into consideration all that has happend this season I guess it's kind of expected.
Hopefully things will turn around once we start winning some games.
 

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hmmm.... we lost our high flying attraction for the casual fans to decide a raptors game is a decent trip for the night. Realistically, we all know the draw of Vince, and Rob and MLSE knew it too. They hope to get the fans back with a winning product, not an average-sub par one with an entertaining gaurd/swingman to go "ohhh didyaseethat?" at least once a game. Besides, werent our numbers down when vince was in the lineup? Maybe ppl will be ready to approach the team next year when they have formed their own identity....and Bosh *sigh* goes to...an All Star Game. Stupid casual fans. :cry:

Plus without hockey, maybe us Torontonians are just stunned into inaction. Like a hang-over or depression. They are still leading with NHL news on the three major sports channels. Its kinda sad. Im kinda embarrased to be living in this city sometimes, frankly. To be honest, from now till Hockey becomes extinct and the NHL moves to Europe, I'm gonna pretend I aint even Canadian. I'll say I'm German. Or Polish. You know, a nationality without a reason to feel embarassed over a childish national obsession. A nationality that hasnt a deep national shame or is the butt of 'how many does it take to put in a lightbulb?' jokes. oops. I'll just say I'm an Albanian/Irish/Jew/farmer. That'll be easier to not be made fun of than sayin I'm Canadian right now. Screw it.

*stomps off wondering how long dead horses can be beaten*
 

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16 in average attendance is pretty darn good considering we are about 22nd in the standings.

And look beyond the basic rankings. Miami is selling out every game. Actually selling more than the listed capacity of the arena. And still they have only sold a grand total of less than 100,000 more tickets than the Raptors. At $50 a ticket that is only $5mill less than one of the best teams in the league. Same with Dallas. Detroit has a bigger arena that holds over 22,000 per game.

As for VC's drawing power take a look at the NJ stats. Pathetic. 3rd worst in total attendance, 3rd worst in Percentage of seats filled, and 5th worst in average attendance.

The road stats show the exact same thing. Nets are 3rd worst in average road attendance. Note that the Raps are just above them at 4th worst which shows that Americans just don't care about the Raps. But they really don't care about VC either. Perhaps this is why teams wouldn't step up with better offers. They know VC is not a big draw anymore. NJ is 29th in Percentage of road seats sold. VC has no drawing power. Fact.
 

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Q8i said:
If We Signed Steve Nash Instead Of Rafer Alston.
If We Got Andre Iggy Instead Of Huffa a.k.a Sh.t.
If We Traded VC For Jamal Magloire.

Where Do U Think We Wud Be?
Ignorance. the MLE wouldn't have gotten nash. vince for magloire couldn't have happened under CBA rules (as many have explained time and time again). can't disagree with you for point b though. i had been pushing for big al or iggy.
 

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The other thing to keep in mind about the Raptors previously high attendance numbers is that they were in part due to two factors which are no longer true: the Raptors were new, and the ACC was new. The Jays had the same initial bubble in attendance when they came into existence, and another one when they moved into the SkyDome. But bubbles burst, and then you settle into what your attendance figures truly are. At that point, you need to start selling the actual product.
 

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To increase their attendance, the Raptors must have an All-Star player to attract the "tribal honkers" who need somebody to cheer for and admire and buy tickets for the nose-bleed seat sections.

The only player on the Raptors who can possibly reach All-Star status is Chris Bosh, but he will not get the votes to reach All-Star status. He might be a coach's choice but he is too nice to catch the macho imagination of the voting masses.

Vince was a shoo-in for All-Star status because of his slam-dunk championship and he displayed "nasty" attitude, over which the teen honkers really go bananas. Vince was the perfect teen basketball idol for Toronto youth. Bosh is too nice and laid back ... he gotta get more hop ....!
 

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Well, first off, it's great to see Memphis packing the house! But then, after a trip to the playoffs last year in the mighty West plus another winning year this season, who wouldn't have expected that they'd sell out every game? What a joke. What does that team need to do for guaranteed sellouts? Smooth move Mr. Heisley. The brutal, lockout shortened 1998-1999 season Vancouver Grizzlies sold more tickets.

New Orleans? Why is there an NBA city in Louisiana? Oh yeah... same as Memphis; because the city was willing to finance, build and then hand the keys to a new building over to a greedy, incompetent owner of an NBA franchise.

I really don't think Toronto is having a dissapointing year in the stands. We sit 500 fans per game behind Philly and are 1500+ up on the exciting, playoff-bound Boston Celtics. We are also ahead of basketball hotbeds like Indiana and Seattle. The numbers Phoenix are drawing are very dissapointing. What are the fans waiting for in the desert?

Orlando is putting up terrible numbers as well.
 

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^^ Re: stadium money

I heard someone talking about Sacremento possibly moving to Vegas down the road as the Maloof brothers have hotel/casino interests there. They have been unable to secure a deal for a new arena in Sac-Town. How sad would that be if one of the leaders in attendance (100% sold out) takes off for a better arena deal.
 

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Yeah, such a move wouldn't surprise me at all. I don't see the city of Sacremento financing a new $250-million dollar venue, especially with the intent of handing operating rights to the Maloof brothers. If they do relocate, whether it be to Las Vegas or elsewhere, it will be a real slap in the face of fans. Charlotte and Vancouver didn't lose their teams because of poor fan support but rather because of greedy ownership. I'd hope the Maloof's will show some loyalty to the city that has supported their franchise well since the mid-1980s. It's unfair to expect taxpayers to handle the burden of constructing a new arena.
 

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As for gambling thats true. For Connecticut to get its WNBA team some kind of deal had to be made with the big Casino there (Foxwoods??) to remove NBA/WNBA from the sports gambling. I know the same happened here in 1994 when the Raps came to town, no more NBA on Pro-line.

I doubt Vegas would give up NBA gambling to get a team, thats got to bring in a ton of money in every year.
 

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GuelphRaptorsFan said:
The other thing to keep in mind about the Raptors previously high attendance numbers is that they were in part due to two factors which are no longer true: the Raptors were new, and the ACC was new. The Jays had the same initial bubble in attendance when they came into existence, and another one when they moved into the SkyDome. But bubbles burst, and then you settle into what your attendance figures truly are. At that point, you need to start selling the actual product.
The arena is a factor but in both those situations the teams were playoff teams. The Blue Jays continued to increase attendance from 1989 through 1993 by winning the World Series. Then the strike happened.

It's not about stars or attractions, it's about winning. If the Raptors had the exact same roster as they do now but their record was 40-25, they would be selling out.
 

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Ballyhoo said:
The arena is a factor but in both those situations the teams were playoff teams. The Blue Jays continued to increase attendance from 1989 through 1993 by winning the World Series. Then the strike happened.

It's not about stars or attractions, it's about winning. If the Raptors had the exact same roster as they do now but their record was 40-25, they would be selling out.
yeah true.. if they had a good record.. We would be #1 in the list...
 

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For some reason this season I have been to more games than I have in years, so I definetely did my part :biggrin:

The one good thing about the drop in attendance is that now you can get wicked scalped tickets for less than the ticket price. I got a couple of scalped tickets for a game in Balcony prime, first row, dead smack in the middle of the court for $45 each, when they actually went for $52 each (ticket price).

The best part is that these were season ticket holder tickets, so even if I wanted to buy them, I couldn't. Best second level tickets I have ever gotten!
 

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i think there are many reasons to explain why we don't fill the building consistently anymore- not the least of which is our record- but i think the negative energy surrounding the team may be the deepest cut for any fan to endure. the more i think about it, the more it occurs to me that this is simply toronto sports in 2005: negative, negative, negative.

i've said it before but i'll say it again: i don't think many of the media reps are criminal as much as they're just locked in a bad habit. i think toronto has grown a batch of people (some of whom take jobs as beat writers) who are uncomfortable with success and pressure, and thus embrace failure almost willingly.

i think that collective mentality surfaces amongst some fans, no doubt, but i think it disgusts the rest of them (who make up the majority). i don't know how much tolerance people really have for that negative voice- they'd prefer to just look elsewhere at the end of the day.

personally, i can't identify a single hero in the toronto sports media who speaks for my values and beliefs- not one. meanwhile, i have countless friends who subscribe to the same system and i wonder why there's such a chasm between the public mind and the public voice.

for example, i want someone- be it from sportsnet, tsn, the toronto star, the toronto sun, fan 590... someone- to step up in light of the bogus magloire rumours that were broadcast around this area less than two days ago and take it to the next level. i don't necessarily want someone to "take the blame" (although that would also be good), but just somebody to make a legit stand in response to the garbage we've had to endure as a result of the maiden story. i mean, it goes unpunished- nobody takes the blame, no sources have been identified, and the media just chooses to pretend like nothing made the papers 24 hours ago. it makes me sick to live in this city when that happens.

if you're going to go out on the ledge and make public what you think is an important story, you should be just as eager to re-set the headline when it's proven false. the toronto media, from my point of view, has not had the courage to do this, and as long as it persists its tabloid existence in that manner, i'll save my respect for someone/something else.

i don't know if this conflict between the people and the media has played a direct role in our mediocre attendance numbers, but i wouldn't doubt that it's distanced many fans from the sport in general. i mean, you look at the toronto star for instance, and you can barely get through a story without taking a break or two. the writing/reporting is so biased to the negative side that it's almost painful. the maple leafs could be in the midst of a 100 point season or the raptors could be clinching a playoff berth and the worst case scenario is almost always addressed in detail.

i think this all plays a role. i think the fans in this city are top-notch, but the media has a long way to go. what makes the situation more difficult, as outlined above (imo), is that these personalities are not doing it on purpose so much as they're doing it out of habit. i think it's a well-ingrained character trait for joe media in the current day and age, and i don't think it'll be corrected seamlessly...

but one can always hope!

peace
 

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ballocks - i think eric smith is your answer. i may have to call into HOOPS on thursday night and see what his reaction is to this whole 'magloire' situation.
 
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