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The tournament would be better and more upset-laiden if the Otto conferences sent their regular season champion.

But.. by having every conference have a conference tournament and sending their conference tournament champion, every school truly has a chance to dance in the postseason. That's why I'm generally against expansion of the NCAAT field size. Each school already has a chance to get in the tournament by winning!

What I would be in favor of is the Otto conferences giving byes to their top team all the way to the final. Some already place the top 2 into the semis and make everyone else play to get there. I don't think you should take away the fact that March Madness is all about everyone having a chance, however slim. But it would be nice if it much more likely that the conference regular season champ got the bid.
 

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The tournament would be better and more upset-laiden if the Otto conferences sent their regular season champion.

But.. by having every conference have a conference tournament and sending their conference tournament champion, every school truly has a chance to dance in the postseason. That's why I'm generally against expansion of the NCAAT field size. Each school already has a chance to get in the tournament by winning!

What I would be in favor of is the Otto conferences giving byes to their top team all the way to the final. Some already place the top 2 into the semis and make everyone else play to get there. I don't think you should take away the fact that March Madness is all about everyone having a chance, however slim. But it would be nice if it much more likely that the conference regular season champ got the bid.

Giving byes to the semis has not been working. The Horizon was doing it and their best teams were getting beat because they had to sit around and wait for teams to catch up and then they had momentum. The MAAC tournament this past year was a disaster too. What the otto bids need to do is stop having them at neutral sites. Play all early rounds at campus sites and then let the top team host the semis and final or something like that. The A-Sun does a nice job of getting their 1 or 2 seed into the NCAAT every year. (almost)
 

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I prefer selecting the regular season champion and since the vast majority of conference tournaments don't draw flies anyway, I'm not sure of the appeal of the conference tournament in the first place. But, if you're going to have one, I prefer the Patriot League's practice of playing all games on-campus at the site of the higher seed. This doesn't guarantee your top seed getting in, but it gives them by far the best chance.

(Upsets still happen, of course, most notably the improbable run by #9 seed Holy Cross in 2016. The Cross, who went 5-13 in the conference regular season, won four straight road games including ones over the #1 , #2 and #4 seeds. They then went on to win their PIG game before being destroyed in the 1-16 game.)

EDIT: Sorry, '03, I started my response before I saw yours.
 

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I prefer selecting the regular season champion and since the vast majority of conference tournaments don't draw flies anyway, I'm not sure of the appeal of the conference tournament in the first place. But, if you're going to have one, I prefer the Patriot League's practice of playing all games on-campus at the site of the higher seed. This doesn't guarantee your top seed getting in, but it gives them by far the best chance.

(Upsets still happen, of course, most notably the improbable run by #9 seed Holy Cross in 2016. The Cross, who went 5-13 in the conference regular season, won four straight road games including ones over the #1 , #2 and #4 seeds. They then went on to win their PIG game before being destroyed in the 1-16 game.)

EDIT: Sorry, '03, I started my response before I saw yours.
But then I do not get to take a mini vacation to Brooklyn, Pittsburgh or DC. I am sad that I missed out on the Atlantic City days but my bank account is not sorry.
 

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Giving byes to the semis has not been working.
Which is exactly why I'd be in favor of the top team getting a bye to the final. I agree with your momentum argument though it's tough to feel sorry for a team that's rested when the other team is coming off 2 or 3 straight nights of play.

I also like the home court suggestion. A central location is for all the ancillary bullshit that the conference wants, though. It's also easier for travel.

On the flip side, you could just say, "hey the regular season matters, morons." and give the bid to the regular season champ. What would ESPN2 do with the 11:00 AM time slot on a Tuesday in late February if the MEAC isn't having a semifinal though?
 

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Which is exactly why I'd be in favor of the top team getting a bye to the final. I agree with your momentum argument though it's tough to feel sorry for a team that's rested when the other team is coming off 2 or 3 straight nights of play.

I also like the home court suggestion. A central location is for all the ancillary bullshit that the conference wants, though. It's also easier for travel.

On the flip side, you could just say, "hey the regular season matters, morons." and give the bid to the regular season champ. What would ESPN2 do with the 11:00 AM time slot on a Tuesday in late February if the MEAC isn't having a semifinal though?

The bigger question is what would these smaller conferences do without that TV money they get every March? They know they arent getting more than 1 unit from the NCAA so they need that money. ESPN is fine, they would just show what they always show in those slots if championship week disappeared. Big Monday gets extended 2 weeks.
 

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The bigger question is what would these smaller conferences do without that TV money they get every March? They know they arent getting more than 1 unit from the NCAA so they need that money. ESPN is fine, they would just show what they always show in those slots if championship week disappeared. Big Monday gets extended 2 weeks.
The TV money may be part of the question, but how much do they really get? The individual schools in the one bid leagues would seem to make their money being bought during the OOC schedule.
 

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I think we're confusing the Sun Belt and C-USA with the terrible one-bid conferences.

That is what buying the BCS myth is about.

Middle Tennessee State, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion and Marshall CAN FREAKING BALL.

The perception is because of sheer math. The conference schedule expanded and conferences grew. You’re playing 19 of 30 games against conference opponents. It’s impossible for your conference game SOS to keep up with BCS teams, who have all good programs.

In 2018, Eleven conferences had an OOC win percentage of .500 or better.
In 1994, it was 17 conferences, because the current BCS programs were spread out among 15 difference conferences.

The BCS conferences have always been good. There's just too few good programs outside of the BCS now in each conference for the math to keep up.

C-USA looks like a one-bid league, despite having four good teams. Four good teams and 10 mediocre/bad teams can't keep up with the math of 14 good teams.
 

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I think we're confusing the Sun Belt and C-USA with the terrible one-bid conferences.

That is what buying the BCS myth is about.

Middle Tennessee State, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion and Marshall CAN FREAKING BALL.

The perception is because of sheer math. The conference schedule expanded and conferences grew. You’re playing 19 of 30 games against conference opponents. It’s impossible for your conference game SOS to keep up with BCS teams, who have all good programs.

In 2018, Eleven conferences had an OOC win percentage of .500 or better.
In 1994, it was 17 conferences, because the current BCS programs were spread out among 15 difference conferences.

The BCS conferences have always been good. There's just too few good programs outside of the BCS now in each conference for the math to keep up.

C-USA looks like a one-bid league, despite having four good teams. Four good teams and 10 mediocre/bad teams can't keep up with the math of 14 good teams.
While I dont disagree that the BCS conferences have a big advantage when it comes to the RPI game, the problem that the CUSA and MVC have (and WCC except for Gonzaga) is what they do in the non conference. In my opinion, this is why the A10 has had success as a multi-bid conference. CUSA, as a conference had just 2 Top 50 Non-Con wins. MVC also had just 2 Top 50 Non-Conference wins. The A-10, in contrast had 7, and not coincidentally, the 2 at large teams earned 5 of those 7.

I think CUSA's idea is a nice attempt to try and earn more bids. I'm all for being creative and certainly the status quo wasn't getting the job done. But if their league - and more specifically the top 4 teams in the league - don't distinguish themselves in the non-conference portion of the year - I think it will be all for naught.
 

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While I dont disagree that the BCS conferences have a big advantage when it comes to the RPI game, the problem that the CUSA and MVC have (and WCC except for Gonzaga) is what they do in the non conference. In my opinion, this is why the A10 has had success as a multi-bid conference. CUSA, as a conference had just 2 Top 50 Non-Con wins. MVC also had just 2 Top 50 Non-Conference wins. The A-10, in contrast had 7, and not coincidentally, the 2 at large teams earned 5 of those 7.

I think CUSA's idea is a nice attempt to try and earn more bids. I'm all for being creative and certainly the status quo wasn't getting the job done. But if their league - and more specifically the top 4 teams in the league - don't distinguish themselves in the non-conference portion of the year - I think it will be all for naught.
Yeah, we have more quality programs capable of marquee OOC wins than other non-BCS conferences. Which is why we're a 3-bid league every year and no one else below us is.



But the thing with OOC games is... you have to play them on BCS terms. And that means you're not posting a good record in them. Their courts, their refs, their rules.


Which is why C-USA and Sun Belt is doing what they're doing: They're trying to create the maximum amount of Q1/Q2 games they can.

ANYTHING you can do to cut a sliver here or there off the BCS advantage, do it.



I honestly think the non-FBS football conferences need to get together, hold a summit, and put together a conference alignment plan that creates a new conference (or two designed) to be a 4 or 5 bid league, while leaving auto-bids for the members "left behind"


Like say you get six conferences without FBS football (A10, WCC, MVC, CAA, Horizon... half the WAC, and some other individual members), you make eight conferences.

Conference 1: Programs 1, 4, 5, 8, 9, three more not very good teams nearby those members
Conference 2: Programs 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, and three more not very good teams nearby those members.

Remaining teams geographically into six more groups of 8.

Everyone plays a 14-game conference schedule. Teams in the top two leagues cannot play teams from the others in OOC play.
 

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Interesting read on the CUSA and Sun Belt scheduling changes. I'm curious to see what the "next step" is regarding non-con scheduling.

https://deadspin.com/a-college-basketball-insider-is-uniting-mid-majors-to-b-1826990796
It is a tough sell because of the money being tossed around, but the best non-P5 programs (say... top 100-150) should band together and refuse to be bought by the P5. Either play H/H series, on neutral courts, in tournaments, or not at all. We need to limit the quality RPI'd cannon fodder for the football schools, and then wisely schedule one another. Create more Q1 games for the non-P5 (a la Bona-Vermont/Bucknell or the recently finalized St. Joe's-Loyola Chicago series) while disallowing the "power" conferences to benefit from simply purchasing games at their facilities and with their officials.
 

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I think we've all been around long enough to know that the "committee" for what it's worth is going to adapt to anything and everything the mid-major conferences throw at them in effort to bust the cartel.

We've already seen in 2016 where our upper tier wins were essentially disregarded because they came against conference opponents, and the knock was we didn't beat anyone OOC. So pitting your top performers against each other in the conference slate won't necessarily make any of those teams more attractive either as a slection or as a seed.

And Bill, refusing to play the P5/6 unless they sign on for H&H or neutral returns might backfire in that you're better off in the eyes of the committee to at least play those schools, even as a buy or as a one and done, than to not play them at all. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the power conferences said "the mid-majors didn't like the rules so they took their ball and went home." And it will be held against us.

I think we have to realize the competitive imbalance is going to remain. The selection process is not published and is fluid, so you have a moving target (at best) let alone having an actual target to shoot for. They adjust to get the big schools in, and give them the seeds, regardless of anything we can do. So what we need is external criteria, such as the win % requirement (.500+ in conference for consideration) or a conference cap (50% or max of 6 teams from a conference). And even those won't be popular or probably ever get implemented.

And the field should be set prior to the conference tourneys and you can make a big production of "elimination week", like pole day at Indy 500. Bid stealing bonanza, watch teams get eliminated on the S-curve when lower seeds upset for conference titles. You have a true NCAA Tournament "First week" so to speak, where everyone has a chance to get in and you know where you stand and what you need to do.
 

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And the field should be set prior to the conference tourneys and you can make a big production of "elimination week", like pole day at Indy 500. Bid stealing bonanza, watch teams get eliminated on the S-curve when lower seeds upset for conference titles. You have a true NCAA Tournament "First week" so to speak, where everyone has a chance to get in and you know where you stand and what you need to do.[/QUOTE]

That last paragraph needs to be repeated. One area that the P5 exploit so often is picking up "quality" wins during the conference tournament which push the mid-majors off the bubble. We establish the top 68 at large teams in advance of the conference tournament, the only way someone outside of this list gets in is by winning their tournament, and the lowest ranked team drops out. This not only makes the process transparent, but I think would add a ton of drama to all of the conference tournaments by teams knowing exactly what they had to do and who might knock them off. Imagine how much viewership the A10 Championship game gets when everyone knows that if Davidson wins, Notre Dame gets the boot.

Of course, this makes too much sense and would potentially result in P5 getting fewer bids so it wont happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #96 (Edited)
* Going to split the media $ equally but feel there must be some variation if you are on ESPN etc or not.

This year if you take the media and the share of 25% pool it equals 1/2 Million per team.


2014: 10 (Dayton 4, Saint Louis 2, St Joe's 1, VCU 1, UMass 1, GW 1)
2015: 5 (Dayton 3, VCU 1, Davidson 1)
2016: 5 (Dayton 1, VCU 2, St Joe's 2)
2017: 4 (Dayton 1, VCU 1, URI 2)
2018: 5 (URI 2, SBU 2, Davidson 1)
2019: 2 (VCU 1 and St Louis 1)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 credits

I used $257,807 per unit, the 75/25 split and the 25 was split by the teams that did not make it. about 8 M for the conference (7,992,017).

Code:
Team	Credits	Earned 	Receive		  Remainder A10 Pool
Dayton	9	$2,320,263	$1,740,197.25	$580,065.75
VCU	6	$1,546,842	$1,160,131.50	$386,710.50
URI	4	$1,031,228	$  773,421.00   $257,807.00
SLU	3	$  773,415	$  580,065.75	$193,349.25
St Joes	3	$  773,415	$  580,065.75	$193,349.25
St Bona	2	$  515,614	$  386,710.50	$128,903.50
Davidson2	$  515,614	$  386,710.50	$128,903.50
GW	1	$  257,807	$  193,355.25	$ 64,451.75
Umass	1	$  257,807	$  193,355.25	$ 64,451.75
La Salle0	$0.00
Duquesne0	$0.00		
Fordham	0	$0.00		
Richmond0	$0.00		
G Mason 0	$0.00		
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 A10 Pool Total $1,997,992.75
Every team receives a cut of the 25% pool or $142,713.77
Every team receives a cut of the 5M Media * $357,142.86
 
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