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zbo and miles are good complimentary guys, but they are not the go to guys. miles has no jumper for when games get tight and those driving lanes start to close up. and because of that, zach and everybody else down low gets doubled making it hard to get a open shot with your back to the basket. with no real outside threat, we will be far away from doing anything. but last night shows we have what no team in a long time has. pride. heart. i honestly believe this team is only one move away, but nash has to do it for someone who will make big money. our only hope right now is paul pierce. we get him, i think we make it in 2 the playoffs as a 2nd seed at least.
 

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AGREE 100%!!!!!!!! I just started a thread saying the same thing. If we could get a legit scorer/SG, we would have a chance at the 8th seed even this year. Its so early that we should look into any type of trade for a 2 guard. I think even a guy ike Jamal Crawford would do wonders just cause he can hit the jumper in a big spot.

NASH MAKE A DAMN TARDE FOR A SG!!! I would get JALEN ROSE.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Kmurph said:
Yet....

It takes time
either you are clutch or not. all the clutch players have started out that way. and it's not even miles or zbo's fault. their games aren't set up to be clutch, as it is hard for either of them to get good enough shots. that is why a outside threat would help both of them a ton. miles drives, meets the double team, then dishes out or zbo can play a little 2 man and dump it down then kick it out with the double team. it makes it almost impossible for our guys to be doubled.
 

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I partially disagree. I think Zach is clutch (if we only need 2 points at least), however we need another threat. Only wing players can really get away with being the sole option at the end of the game due to having more space to create (and generally a better skillset for it). They just swarm all around Zach and even a clutch player doesn't hit shots over 3 defenders often. The real question is, do we make a trade now or hope that Monia or Webster turn into that other option in the future? I think management has decided to wait and see, and unless someone other then Rose or Crawford (who I really don't like as a player) becomes available to us I think it's the right decision.
 

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tradetheo said:
either you are clutch or not. all the clutch players have started out that way.
um...there's a certain air-ball (or two) that Kobe Bryant shot that begs to differ with that assertion.
 

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I think Outlaw has the best chance to be that clutch 3pt guy.
He can get his shot off on just about anybody and he has the range.
Hopefully he starts to get some playing time soon.

Telfair is another possibility since he is fast enough to get a shot off.
Of course he doesn't have the confidence to take it or consistency for us to want him to shoot that end of game 3 yet.

Webster has a chance too, if we a screen play for him. However being so young he's not ready to fill that roll yet.


Having that go to guy can at the end can really make a difference. Ben Gordon filled that roll for the Bulls last year and helped take that team from just competing to winning games.
 

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Telfair passed up a three, ( think ) last night and decided to drive when it looked to me like he should have taken the shot. I do not know his instructions though, so it is difficult to say he should have taken the shot. It was not at the very last but it was close to end. I do believe he will be that kind of guy when he get a little more confidence. Jack also and may be closer to the clutch type of guy now. Before long this guy will emrerge.

gatorpops
 

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Kobe Bryant shot a few airballs before he became clutch he still does that a little but now.Becoming clutch takes time ,a few of the players will become clutch when they become more confident.Bassy had a open look but he didnt have the confidence so he passed it up.
 

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In general, there are no "clutch players." Professional athletes tend to play to their ability in all situations. Michael Jordan was not a great "clutch" player. He was great in pressure situations because he was a great player...all the time. Robert Horry has a handful of big shots and many more key missed shots (living in Southern California I saw a lot of Lakers games). The makes are remembered, the misses aren't. A player of Horry's abilities should be expected to hit some big shots and miss others.

"Clutch" (the concept of some players elevating their game in key moments while others shrink under pressure) is an invention because people like to ascribe a nobility of spirit when a shot is knocked down in a dramatic moment and a deficit in character when they're upset that a shot was missed in a dramatic moment.

Randolph, like most big men, is not a great go-to guy when there's limited time, because he can't handle the ball and launch a shot, the way a perimeter player can. He needs to be set up and needs time to work. Duncan and Shaq aren't great options in "last shot" situations, either, generally.

Darius Miles is as good a go-to guy in a key moment as he is at any other time: he's a dangerous offensive player (so far this year) with limitations. His shot is his weakness, but it's improving.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Minstrel said:
In general, there are no "clutch players." Professional athletes tend to play to their ability in all situations. Michael Jordan was not a great "clutch" player. He was great in pressure situations because he was a great player...all the time. Robert Horry has a handful of big shots and many more key missed shots (living in Southern California I saw a lot of Lakers games). The makes are remembered, the misses aren't. A player of Horry's abilities should be expected to hit some big shots and miss others.

"Clutch" (the concept of some players elevating their game in key moments while others shrink under pressure) is an invention because people like to ascribe a nobility of spirit when a shot is knocked down in a dramatic moment and a deficit in character when they're upset that a shot was missed in a dramatic moment.

Randolph, like most big men, is not a great go-to guy when there's limited time, because he can't handle the ball and launch a shot, the way a perimeter player can. He needs to be set up and needs time to work. Duncan and Shaq aren't great options in "last shot" situations, either, generally.

Darius Miles is as good a go-to guy in a key moment as he is at any other time: he's a dangerous offensive player (so far this year) with limitations. His shot is his weakness, but it's improving.
micharl jordanot clutch. lol. michael jordan was clutch since college. as a freshman he won a national title. not to mention shots he hit against cleveland,utah,the pistons, anybody you can imagine.
 

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it's sort of true what Minstrel said. people don't really elevate their game in clutch situations. there are, however, many guys who choke and perform much more poorly in clutch situations.

being "clutch" is really just playing to your normal ability in incredibly tense situations and not choking. some guys can do it, some can't.
 

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theWanker said:
it's sort of true what Minstrel said. people don't really elevate their game in clutch situations. there are, however, many guys who choke and perform much more poorly in clutch situations.

being "clutch" is really just playing to your normal ability in incredibly tense situations and not choking. some guys can do it, some can't.
I think that's true over the entire population, but I'm not sure that's true over pro athletes. Pro athletes are a population selected for ability to handle pressure. Nobody makes it through the many hurdles that must be overcome to be one of the tiny percentage of people that reaches the professional ranks without succeeding under pressure. The pressure of big games in junior high, high school and college, the pressure of doing well when college recruiters and pro scouts are watching, etc.

Plus, pro athletes play so many games with the pressure of so many people caring and watching, the emotional impact of pressure is unlikely to last very long. When your whole life is under pressure, does the millionth fourth quarter free throw really feel different?

Thus, I think there's probably a great number of people among all the people in the US who respond poorly to pressure, but probably not many, or any, who do at the highest levels of competition.
 

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tradetheo said:
either you are clutch or not. all the clutch players have started out that way. and it's not even miles or zbo's fault. their games aren't set up to be clutch, as it is hard for either of them to get good enough shots. that is why a outside threat would help both of them a ton. miles drives, meets the double team, then dishes out or zbo can play a little 2 man and dump it down then kick it out with the double team. it makes it almost impossible for our guys to be doubled.
Whether you like Kobe Bryant or not, you have to admit he's clutch. He makes a lot of big shots. I don't think you can say he "started out that way". I seem to remember a few air balls against Utah years ago. T-Mac is a clutch guy too. I can remember a couple games against the Blazers he's beat us with a last-second shot. He certainly didn't start out that way either. Scotty Pippen was clutch. That guy shot about 30% on 3's, unless the game was on the line. Remember his "migranes" early in his career against Detroit when he was labled "soft"? There are growing pains for MOST clutch players. Not all, but most. I'd like to see us give our young guys some room to grow. Bringing in Jalen Rose, or J. Crawford seems silly. We are 2-3, and other than Denver, we've played everybody tough. If we go 32-50 this year and we're in 4 out of 5 games, I could be okay with that if our young guys are growing. How many more games do you think Jalen Rose gets us? 4? 5? Even if it's 8 games, we go 40-42 . . . is that worth it? I don't think so. I'd rather give Webster the minutes.
 

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mixum said:
AGREE 100%!!!!!!!! I just started a thread saying the same thing. If we could get a legit scorer/SG, we would have a chance at the 8th seed even this year. Its so early that we should look into any type of trade for a 2 guard. I think even a guy ike Jamal Crawford would do wonders just cause he can hit the jumper in a big spot.

NASH MAKE A DAMN TARDE FOR A SG!!! I would get JALEN ROSE.
You just made the following post:

The Blazers have no clutch players.

Clutch players win games.

Get the Blazers a clutch player.

Jamal Crawford and Jalen Rose are clutch players.

Get Jamal Crawford or Jalen Rose.

Are you serious??? Crawford and Rose are clutch?????

And if they are, and if all of your assumptions are correct....why have the Knicks and Raptors failed to win a game yet this season?
 

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Absolutely there are players which can elevate their games at the end. MJ was a great player, but he sometimes coasted. If the game was on the line, and the ball was in his hands, he took it to a new level. His intensity and will to win made him a phenomenal clutch player.

We don't see players like that often. Still, in time Webster and Telfair and even Jack should be able to create and hit open jumpers at game end. It won't make them MJ, though. <duh>

iWatas
 

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That's the first time I've ever heard or read someone say that Michael Jordan coasted. I'd have to disagree with you on that one.

I think the definition of "clutch" is performing up to your ability level in pressure packed moments...therefore there IS such thing as clutch. We have no proven consistently clutch players on our roster. Hopefully we will see a couple develop.
 

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people don't really elevate their game in clutch situations
This I disagree with, you see it in the business world as much as in pro sports. Sometimes there are people who just thrive off those high adrenaline moments and reach a higher zone of confidence/competence.
 

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Verro said:
This I disagree with, you see it in the business world as much as in pro sports. Sometimes there are people who just thrive off those high adrenaline moments and reach a higher zone of confidence/competence.
Only if they operate below their ability level the rest of the time; which happens, but in that case it's not a positive. Some people need high arousal moments (different from adrenaline, contrary to popular conception, adrenaline doesn't kick in at exciting moments in games or business, it kicks in when one's life is in danger) to reach their potential...people who are always operating at their potential are much more valuable.
 
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