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So, I saw a little tidbit on WGN morning news today. They attributed to Ronnie Brewer a statement that the Bulls are considering the severity of Noah's ankle injury with respect to their decision-making process on whether to match Omer. A few thoughts:

Hoodey, I think I owe you an apology on this one. Weren't you alluding to Noah's ankle being a concern, and I basically laughed it off saying a mere sprained ankle was not relevant insofar as next season is concerned? It appears GarPax share your thinking on that.

How bad a sprained ankle is this? And doesn't Thibs (and the training staff) look just terrible for letting the guy re-enter the game after suffering the sprain if it really is this severe?
 

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So, I saw a little tidbit on WGN morning news today. They attributed to Ronnie Brewer a statement that the Bulls are considering the severity of Noah's ankle injury with respect to their decision-making process on whether to match Omer. A few thoughts:

Hoodey, I think I owe you an apology on this one. Weren't you alluding to Noah's ankle being a concern, and I basically laughed it off saying a mere sprained ankle was not relevant insofar as next season is concerned? It appears GarPax share your thinking on that.

How bad a sprained ankle is this? And doesn't Thibs (and the training staff) look just terrible for letting the guy re-enter the game after suffering the sprain if it really is this severe?
Not a problem, but thanks for noting.

I remember the initial injury looking pretty severe as sprains go. I'm no doctor, so I don't know how high sprains translate into potential ligament damage, but when you saw Joakim after re-entering the game, you had to think long term repercussions. This would be similar to the fact that Tommie Harris hamstring pull sounded run of the mill, but you see it was high in the muscle, and for whatever reason, high sprains or pulls are bad.

I remembered guys on the Score saying HE ALSO could be out going into next season at least for a bit.

But, I don't get it. Are you saying from what you heard this means that they need to match Omer? The guy (Noah) is going to miss maybe 2 months of next season. WHY THE F does that mean you need Omer? This is a bad potential sales job by GarPax if true. If you match Omer, do it on his own merits and be prepared to present it that way. Don't say "well, Joakim might not be back till early February, so we need to do this."
 

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By the way, on the "not a doctor" front, does anyone remember how comical the Alonzo Mourning thing was? Where just because he had a kidney transplant, all these lay people were stepping up to theorize that one shot to the kidney area could mean death, and then actual doctors were saying "uhh, it just doesn't work that way."
 

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The only way I could see the Bulls matching Asik's contract is if they were also planning on shipping out Noah this summer for a guy like Eric Gordon.
 

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according to this http://twitter.com/Can_SB

its being matched .

and according to chris sheridan every offer except for landry fields will be matched.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
But, I don't get it. Are you saying from what you heard this means that they need to match Omer? The guy (Noah) is going to miss maybe 2 months of next season.

I'm saying the WGN sports guy spun it this morning as though Noah's ankle injury might make it more likely that the Bulls re-sign Omer.

To me, that's crazy. Rose is out next year. Deng may be out a while. Chances are better than not that the early part of the season, minimally, is a bust. Should we commit to a 3-year deal with Omer because of Noah's slow rehab? No way. You re-sign Omer only if you think that's the wise move long-term, not for short-term next season considerations.
 

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I'm saying the WGN sports guy spun it this morning as though Noah's ankle injury might make it more likely that the Bulls re-sign Omer.

To me, that's crazy. Rose is out next year. Deng may be out a while. Chances are better than not that the early part of the season, minimally, is a bust. Should we commit to a 3-year deal with Omer because of Noah's slow rehab? No way. You re-sign Omer only if you think that's the wise move long-term, not for short-term next season considerations.
Oh I'm not saying it was you who was behind it. I should have asked if that was the spin.

See, this is why I've been on Paxson and Forman for a long time.

Let me start by saying this. There was a time when the kind of player Paxson/Forman have always brought in was needed. It was 2004. There wasn't enough of that on that team and we benefited as a result.

But I remember when they asked Lovie Smith about heart and effort when he got the job. And he said, "all of that should be a given. We need guys who not only bring that, but speed also." Now, he's fallen in love with his own guys, so he has looked bad, but it leads to a point.

I think heart, effort, defense, grit, toughness are all important. But they should be a given. You should not be handing out 25 mill over 3 years for that. You should not be killing your cap flexibility for that. I'm all for not bringing in the Carmelos, Vince Carters and Tracy McGradys because you doubt that they would be a clubhouse fit. But the Bulls are so far on the other side of that now that it's just diminishing returns.

People are always looking for a reason to kind of give these guys the benefit of the doubt (not you in this post, stay with me). Now it's, "well, we must be looking to move Noah for Eric Gordon." What that fails to realize is that you lose a LOT with Asik over Noah. If Asik brought what he brings AND you retained the skills that Noah brings in one guy, fine. MAYBE you give 15 mill in that year when we'd otherwise be free, because THAT player could have a chance to be worth it and maybe you bring in a post coach to SEE if you can give this guy some back to the basket game.

But Asik, as his game is, is kind of like a bigger, poor man's Anthony Mason when he was still coming off the bench for Oakley and McDaniel. Mason got better, but I'm not comparing to the 94 version. I'm saying that the 92 version of a bigger Mason might be Asik's peak.

Man I'm irate.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Oh I'm not saying it was you who was behind it. I should have asked if that was the spin.

See, this is why I've been on Paxson and Forman for a long time.

Let me start by saying this. There was a time when the kind of player Paxson/Forman have always brought in was needed. It was 2004. There wasn't enough of that on that team and we benefited as a result.

But I remember when they asked Lovie Smith about heart and effort when he got the job. And he said, "all of that should be a given. We need guys who not only bring that, but speed also." Now, he's fallen in love with his own guys, so he has looked bad, but it leads to a point.

I think heart, effort, defense, grit, toughness are all important. But they should be a given. You should not be handing out 25 mill over 3 years for that. You should not be killing your cap flexibility for that. I'm all for not bringing in the Carmelos, Vince Carters and Tracy McGradys because you doubt that they would be a clubhouse fit. But the Bulls are so far on the other side of that now that it's just diminishing returns.

People are always looking for a reason to kind of give these guys the benefit of the doubt (not you in this post, stay with me). Now it's, "well, we must be looking to move Noah for Eric Gordon." What that fails to realize is that you lose a LOT with Asik over Noah. If Asik brought what he brings AND you retained the skills that Noah brings in one guy, fine. MAYBE you give 15 mill in that year when we'd otherwise be free, because THAT player could have a chance to be worth it and maybe you bring in a post coach to SEE if you can give this guy some back to the basket game.

But Asik, as his game is, is kind of like a bigger, poor man's Anthony Mason when he was still coming off the bench for Oakley and McDaniel. Mason got better, but I'm not comparing to the 94 version. I'm saying that the 92 version of a bigger Mason might be Asik's peak.

Man I'm irate.

I believe Asik is an elite defender, but I more or less agree with your post here 100%.
 

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I believe Asik is an elite defender, but I more or less agree with your post here 100%.
With all respect, what is your definition of elite?

I think of elite defenders as the guys you will remember in 20 years.

Michael Cooper
Dennis Johnson
Joe Dumars
Michael Jordan
Scottie Pippen
Gary Payton
David Robinson
Dikembe Motumbo

Asik is a good, sometimes very good, sometimes inconsistent defender. Elite? I'd only barely say he'd be considered for the all-NBA defensive second team if we made him a starter.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
With all respect, what is your definition of elite?

I think of elite defenders as the guys you will remember in 20 years.

Michael Cooper
Dennis Johnson
Joe Dumars
Michael Jordan
Scottie Pippen
Gary Payton
David Robinson
Dikembe Motumbo

Asik is a good, sometimes very good, sometimes inconsistent defender. Elite? I'd only barely say he'd be considered for the all-NBA defensive second team if we made him a starter.

Asik’s reputation as an excellent defender is well earned. The Bulls’ second unit (ideally C.J. Watson, Ronnie Brewer, Deng, Gibson, and Asik) is one of the best defensive units, if not the best, in basketball. Gibson and Asik both have the quickness to step out on screen-and-rolls, and Asik is an excellent defender near the rim. The defensive rebounding numbers round out his status as an elite defender — a 25.1 percent defensive rebound rate and 8.3 defensive rebounds per 36 minutes in 2011-12.
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...e-rockets-used-the-new-cba-to-steal-omer-asik


Additionally, this is Insider, so I don't have a link for it, but Hollinger commented:

On to the next question: Is he worth it?

That's a bit of an eye-of-the-beholder question. Asik's advanced stats support the subjective viewpoint that he's one of the five or 10 best defensive players in basketball, and defense in general tends to be wildly underrated in the free-agent market (although weirdly, not in the draft). He is also, objectively, a monstrous rebounder, with his 20.1 rebound rate ranking sixth in the NBA last season.
Of course, he goes on to describe what a terrible offensive player Omer is, which is obviously relevant in terms of the decision on re-signing him.

Still, simply from watching the games, I think it's fair to say Omer is an elite post defender. He's the best the Bulls have had in a long time. It's just questionable as to whether he's a viable starter given liabilities on the other end of the court.
 

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http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...e-rockets-used-the-new-cba-to-steal-omer-asik


Additionally, this is Insider, so I don't have a link for it, but Hollinger commented:



Of course, he goes on to describe what a terrible offensive player Omer is, which is obviously relevant in terms of the decision on re-signing him.

Still, simply from watching the games, I think it's fair to say Omer is an elite post defender. He's the best the Bulls have had in a long time. It's just questionable as to whether he's a viable starter given liabilities on the other end of the court.
He's not an elite post defender. David Robinson, Dikembe Motumbo. Those are elite post defenders. Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing midway through his career.

When David Robinson is blocking 4.5 shots a game and rejecting Jordan dunk attempts at the rim, I think elite defender. If Omer Asik is an elite defender so was Antonio Davis.
 

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He's not an elite post defender. David Robinson, Dikembe Motumbo. Those are elite post defenders. Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing midway through his career.

When David Robinson is blocking 4.5 shots a game and rejecting Jordan dunk attempts at the rim, I think elite defender. If Omer Asik is an elite defender so was Antonio Davis.
The only elite post defender in the NBA is Dwight Howard and honestly he would not even be considered a top 5 defender in the 90's but thats todays NBA for you. Is Omer a great post defender? I guess, I mean hes the best one we have even though he would probably foul out of every game if he started lol.
 
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