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Discussion Starter #1
rlucas touched on this in the Clips game thread, and I felt it was a good point to address with its own thread because the Bulls offense is downright ugly. It was pointed out that none of our guards penetrate and draw the foul or finish with any regularity -- a stark contrast to the extremely effective slashing and finishing/dishing of the Clippers. Well, there's a few reasons for the stagnancy of the Bulls offense in regards to the lack of penetration/creation. The first two are obvious, the third is the most important.

A.) Jamal has a natural tendency to avoid contact. He has been penetrating very well as of late, but he never gets in deep enough to exact any real damage to the opposition, and his drives are often relegated to 5'-10' floaters that are far from accurate.

B.) Kirk is neither strong nor experienced enough to routinely create or score off penetration. Moreover, the lane is often cluttered with anticipated defensive rotations/switches because of the lack of firepower in the Bulls frontcourt and the subsequent ability of defenses to overcompensate on a Bulls drive from the perimeter. This severely limits the effectiveness of penetration.

C.) Outside of Curry, who can only run up and down the court for five minutes before he gets taken out for any number of reasons, there is not a single frontcourt player on the roster with starter-level finishing ability. JYD (a garbage player) and AD (a bench player in a starting role) score entirely too many of their points off of screen rolls and 15' jumpers because they simply aren't great offensive players. Simply put, they're not any kind of an inside force offensively. Defenses know this, and it really hurts what JC/KH can do in terms of creating and penetrating. As for our bench, Blount is a jumpshooter and Fizer is a 10th-man black hole.

The Clippers are an effective slashing team because they have players (Maggette, Q, Jaric) who can penetrate like bulls on acid in addition to a formidable frontcourt that finishes plays. This is one huge area the Bulls really, really suck at.
 

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i only seen them a couple of times because i live in ny but all i see is one guy give a pass and then the person that recieves it does it everything on his own without passing just forcing a shot or doing some crappy low post move. Everyone even corie blount!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Actually, Corie Blount has been a pleasant surprise this season, at least to me. Unlike AD, he can at least stick the 15'-20' jumper with regularity and stretch the D.
 

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Good post.

I don't think we have yet found the right mix of players and offense to really be successfull.

I think one thing Skiles should look at is playing Erob and Blount more. They can actually hit the mid range jumper. Which frees things up. And ERob can finish at the bucket to boot.

You put Crawford at the top of the key and run Kirk and Erob on Curls. And run the pick and roll with Corie at the top.

And then dump it into Curry more to establish an inside prescence.(Eddy of course needs to get better position.)

But none of these things are going to happen. Or else they would have already happened. Season over. Team sucks. Coach sucks. GM sucks. Owner sucks. Trainer sucks.

Worst team in the NBA.
Best fans in the NBA though proportional to what we go through.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
Good post.

I don't think we have yet found the right mix of players and offense to really be successfull.

I think one thing Skiles should look at is playing Erob and Blount more. They can actually hit the mid range jumper. Which frees things up. And ERob can finish at the bucket to boot.

You put Crawford at the top of the key and run Kirk and Erob on Curls. And run the pick and roll with Corie at the top.

And then dump it into Curry more to establish an inside prescence.(Eddy of course needs to get better position.)
Agreed 100%.
 

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I was shocked by how long Skiles left a lineup of Brunson, ERob, JYD, Blount and Jefferies on the floor. It seemed like forever to me. I understand that those guys (minus Jefferies) were the ones making the hustle plays for us, but I think that there's a point where if you're going to get back into the game, you're going to need to put up points. I know Eddy was missing shots that he took too quickly, and not backing his man down, and etc. etc. but I was really hoping that Skiles would give him another shot in the late 3rd/early 4th quarter. Didn't happen.

I mean, our offense sucks because we don't have the right kind of penetration and settle for lots of jumpers. So why not give Eddy a shot when we're down by a ton? I wanted to see him get back out there. And was Kirk tired or something? He didn't seem to be in during the second half at all.

BTW, the Clips were able to penetrate because we had no post presence. That was clear from the very beginning of the game. And Skiles made it (somewhat) worse by "resting" Eddy and AD for most of the game, the only guys who can give some kind of interior defense. Tyson should help us out here when he returns - I think he could have redirected about half of those QRich/Maggette drives.
 

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Originally posted by <b>elias03</b>!
i know hes consistant with his jay but still its corie blount. i like him though. hes cheap and contributes.
The fact that CB looks good on this team shows how dreadful they are.
 

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Our offense is so predictable that it's scary. Pick and roll, Inside curl, post up, and the ever popular chicken without a head offense. They need to diversify the offense and give it a little bling bling. BUt first we need some guys who can shoot besides JC & KH. Then we need a post presence other than Curry. I'm sorry but the Bulls are just seriously lacking offensive firepower.
 

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Hmmmmmm this game got me thinking if we can deal a nice package of Crawford/Curry/1st Rounder for a legitimate shooting guard and just start E-Rob at the small forward. He's been pretty well the last couple of games and if he continues I don't see why you wouldn't continue to play him. We all know he can finish around the basket. He plays above average defense, and his jumper has improved to the point where you can't just dare him to shoot.
 

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Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!


C.) Outside of Curry, who can only run up and down the court for five minutes before he gets taken out for any number of reasons, there is not a single frontcourt player on the roster with starter-level finishing ability. JYD (a garbage player) and AD (a bench player in a starting role) score entirely too many of their points off of screen rolls and 15' jumpers because they simply aren't great offensive players. Simply put, they're not any kind of an inside force offensively. Defenses know this, and it really hurts what JC/KH can do in terms of creating and penetrating. As for our bench, Blount is a jumpshooter and Fizer is a 10th-man black hole.

excellent post V. in particular point C. and whether or not chandler makes any kind of impact with his return remains to be seen. he's not going to be in game shape for a while - despite the glowing reviews from practice.
 

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Originally posted by <b>T.Shock</b>!
Hmmmmmm this game got me thinking if we can deal a nice package of Crawford/Curry/1st Rounder for a legitimate shooting guard and just start E-Rob at the small forward. He's been pretty well the last couple of games and if he continues I don't see why you wouldn't continue to play him. We all know he can finish around the basket. He plays above average defense, and his jumper has improved to the point where you can't just dare him to shoot.
We made the mistake of labeling ERob our starting small forward two years in a row. His play on the floor is not horrible. The problem is, when you need to count on him, he's injured. He's a guy I'd like to continue have contribute form the bench. We need a starter who can be relied on for at least 65 games/year to lock down that position.
 

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You think maybe Q's slashing style would help the Bulls? :D He has always been able to finish in the lane, even against bigger opponents.
 

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The reason our offense blows is because we have no post up game .The Clipps have Brand ,Maggette,Q all who can post up draw the double team and make the pass or score.

Who do we have like that on our team ?

because of the lack of this crucial part of the game its put more pressure on Kirk and Jamal to become less of a spot up shooter and more a breakdown the defense and create something type guards on almost EVERY possesion something no one was mentioning them having that big if a need to do last October because Curry and Chandler were gonna be so dominate right ?.....
 

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V V, I have known this for a long time. Nice post

1. No post game.

2. Crawford avoids contact. A classic example of that was last night. He had a fast break. He felt the heat of a defender. Instead of trying to make the layup he braced himself for the fact that he was going to get hammered and adjusted his shot for that. Jaric never touched him. He ran by him. You should always try to make a shot. Never assume the opposing player will keep you from scoring. If you do, then you are helping the other team. Jamal has improved in terms of taking the ball to the hoop but it is very obvious he does not want contact. We desperately need a player who is fearless.

Jamal is not the only one to blame. E-rob is another. Gill a third.

We are #22 in the league in FTA. Our guards and no post game are the reasons why.

We shoot threes. And jumpers. Even on fastbreaks, we shoot FB threes instead of layups and fouls. A FB three is not a high pct shot. If it goes in fine! But 2/3 of the time we miss the shot! Not good.
 

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the thing that is overwhelmingly obvious, is the general lack of talent on this team, top to bottom. It feels just like it felt watching the Orlando Woolridge Steve Colter Gene Banks Michael Jordan and Earl Cureton Bulls.

You gotta laugh at the people decrying Skiles lineups. Skiles isn't working with much. Fugedit
 

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It's 'cause the primariy offensive options are just really darn young.

Eddy has some good stretches. Usually, it comes early in the game when teams want to play him straight up. The defense makes an adjustment, he gets alittle winded, and he's no longer an option.

Jamal can shoot, and he can shoot off the dribble, so he can create. But that's about it. He's not a good catch and shoot player, and he's not going to finish at the rim.

Kirk can shoot. He can shoot off the dribble, but his size means he really shouldn't. He can catch and shoot, which is a real option off of screens. He is able to break down the defense, but once he gets into the lane, he doesn't know how to make a play. So he'll break down the defense, look for something easy, then pull it back out and run something else.

The only other legit weapon is AD in the post, shooting one of those fadeaways. A nice fallback, but not really a go-to move. At 9 ppg, it's hard to call AD a scorer.

Gill has a complete game. He can hit the J, he has a post game, he can shoot off the dribble, or coming off screens. He's just horribly streaky.

Simply, we are relying on young players that don't have a complete game. The defense can figure out what it is they do, take it away, and there is no counter. Everything else must come out of the offense.

Eddy makes some shots down low, then front him, and keep a weak side defender low. We don't have enough shooters to spread the floor. Defense wins.

Kirk can shoot, so get up on him and pressure him to put the ball on the floor, then drive him to help. Defense wins.

Jamal is a real threat, and you have to choose. If he's hitting the open J, make him put it on the floor, because he's not going to take it all the way to the rim. Or if he's not shooting well, keep him in front of you and let him take outside shots. Defense wins. Except that rare time when he's really hot and hitting everything. We do win those games.

Now, given what Skiles has to work with, I'd say he's doing a pretty good job. It's predictable, but what do you want, the triangle? No offense can make bad players look good. The offense does tend to give guys open shots. They're not great shots, but without real threats, you're not going to get great shots.

Fast forward a few years. Let's say we have a SF that can hit the 3 reliably. Now you can get Eddy the ball down low, or run a high low effectively. Hopefully, he'll be able to do more things in the post, like get and keep position. And you hope he's more confident in his jump shot and ball handling, so he has a much wider arsenal.

Fast forward a few years. Jamal puts on another 15-20 pounds of muscle and he's getting to the line regularly. He puts tremendous pressure on the D because he can finish at the rim, and he can make the pass.

Fast forward a few years. Kirk gets into the lane with regularity and makes the right play. Or with Tyson hitting the outside shot reliably, run the screen and role with Kirk and Tyson.

A lot of things could change over the long haul. But who wants to wait?
 
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