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It seems pretty clear that the Bulls' first choice this offseason is to make a trade to get a star player. However, I think what's really necessary to make this a championship quality team is to get two star quality players (either by trade or by drafting guys who will be stars in the next couple of years-unlikely). One won't be enough. Why, two obvious reasons.

First, if we get a star, he's going to be an older player. Maybe not "over the hill" old, but old enough so we can't necessarily wait around for our young players to develop to their fullest. If we do, the older, current star will be going down just as the younger guys are really at their peak. That won't work... we need the most important guys on the team in their prime and at the peak of their abilities.

Second, the players we have, while good, are not yet (or in the next three years or so) good enough to put around a single star player and hope to win. Almost every championship eam needs two to three top level players. I can see Deng and Hinrich as the third guys (maybe the second in 5 years or so), but again, just getting one guy won't get us to where we need to go.

So the real question is whether the Bulls can get not just one, but two star quality players without giving giving up the complementary pieces needed to put around those two guys and make a champion.

My take is that the complementary pieces... those guys we can't afford to give up, are:
Kirk Hinrich
Luol Deng
Chris Duhon
Darius Songaila (because he's not going anywhere given the injury and because he's ok).
$6.5M Cap Space (enough to sign Joel Pryzbilla or maybe a combo of couple less heralded guys who can fill in the big man rotation)

That's five guys. Add the two stars and you've got seven. That's pretty much all you need... you should be able to scrabble together one more guy if you're good to get an 8th and solidify a rotation.

That means the assets we can afford to give up are:
* Knicks Pick
* Bulls Pick
* Ben Gordon
* Tyson Chandler
* Andres Nocioni
* Mike Sweetney
* About $9M in cap space to use/trade

So the question is... can we get two legitimate star players using those assets. And if so, how?

Given that with our "keepers" we've filled in the PG, SF, and C spots, we need a SG and we need a PF. So what are the options there?

Guys I'd try to get in order of preference
SG: Richard Jefferson, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson
PF: Chris Bosh, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Andre Kirilenko

Anyone think this can be done? Anyone think it will be done.
 

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Mikedc said:
Guys I'd try to get in order of preference
SG: Richard Jefferson, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson
PF: Chris Bosh, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Andre Kirilenko

Anyone think this can be done? Anyone think it will be done.
Iguodala isn't a star, probably never will be...he's actually regressed from last season...

J-Rich isn't a star either but he's a very good SG, on the Stephen Jackson level, or a bit better cuz he's more atheletic...

Allen? too old

I like the Pierce & RJ ideas

Bosh isn't happening, he's already looking at the offseason with their GM to mold the team.

Pau Gasol won't ever win a ring, I don't care who's on his team, he's soft.

AK-47 won't be traded, coming across a player like him happens only SO often, no way their GM trades him.

Honestly, I thought about the 2 star thing also, but a Pierce & Garnett tandem wouldn't even get us a ring.
 

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Jason Richardson is not a star because he plays for Golden State. I think that if he played in LA or closer to the East coast, he would be thought of as a young star. He's a top 15 scorer. That said, I would much rather prefer RJ.

While it would be nice to have 2 stars, I think that one of complimentary players steps up to be that second star. The only think that is holding Kirk or Ben back from being stars is that fact that they feel like they have to be the man. Either of these two players could be a secondary star to an alpha dog
 

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p_s said:
Jason Richardson is not a star because he plays for Golden State. I think that if he played in LA or closer to the East coast, he would be thought of as a young star. He's a top 15 scorer. That said, I would much rather prefer RJ.

While it would be nice to have 2 stars, I think that one of complimentary players steps up to be that second star. The only think that is holding Kirk or Ben back from being stars is that fact that they feel like they have to be the man. Either of these two players could be a secondary star to an alpha dog
Agreed.

I would like to see the Bulls go after Iguodala though. He'd be perfect with Hinrich and Gordon.
 

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ya if Richardson played for a team like L.A. he would of been a strong candidate for the all star team this year and probley would have made it.However when you play for a sorry franchise no one cares about your game and you get overlooked.I'm just glad the Bulls are a good franchise because when we get good our players will be noticed!
 

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Mikedc said:
First, if we get a star, he's going to be an older player. Maybe not "over the hill" old, but old enough so we can't necessarily wait around for our young players to develop to their fullest. If we do, the older, current star will be going down just as the younger guys are really at their peak. That won't work... we need the most important guys on the team in their prime and at the peak of their abilities.
You mentioned we're not likely to get a young star yet still listed several of them:

Guys I'd try to get in order of preference
SG: Richard Jefferson, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson
PF: Chris Bosh, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Andre Kirilenko
Getting any of the guys in bold, I think they're young enough to grow with our current nucleus (didn't list Igoudala because I don't consider him anywhere close to a star, and Kirilenko isn't a PF, but they're both technically in the same age group as the guys in bold). So based on age or peak years, I'm not sure if the point of needing another star is valid. At the same time, it's debatable whether Jefferson or Richardson are the type of stars that would elevate our team to a contender. Bosh or Gasol would be absolutely perfect, though.

As far as what we have in trade, I think it's an attractive package to get one of those players IF their current team was set on rebuilding and actually looking to trade one of them.
 

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Mikedc said:
It seems pretty clear that the Bulls' first choice this offseason is to make a trade to get a star player. However, I think what's really necessary to make this a championship quality team is to get two star quality players (either by trade or by drafting guys who will be stars in the next couple of years-unlikely). One won't be enough. Why, two obvious reasons.

First, if we get a star, he's going to be an older player. Maybe not "over the hill" old, but old enough so we can't necessarily wait around for our young players to develop to their fullest. If we do, the older, current star will be going down just as the younger guys are really at their peak. That won't work... we need the most important guys on the team in their prime and at the peak of their abilities.

Second, the players we have, while good, are not yet (or in the next three years or so) good enough to put around a single star player and hope to win. Almost every championship eam needs two to three top level players. I can see Deng and Hinrich as the third guys (maybe the second in 5 years or so), but again, just getting one guy won't get us to where we need to go.

So the real question is whether the Bulls can get not just one, but two star quality players without giving giving up the complementary pieces needed to put around those two guys and make a champion.

My take is that the complementary pieces... those guys we can't afford to give up, are:
Kirk Hinrich
Luol Deng
Chris Duhon
Darius Songaila (because he's not going anywhere given the injury and because he's ok).
$6.5M Cap Space (enough to sign Joel Pryzbilla or maybe a combo of couple less heralded guys who can fill in the big man rotation)

That's five guys. Add the two stars and you've got seven. That's pretty much all you need... you should be able to scrabble together one more guy if you're good to get an 8th and solidify a rotation.

That means the assets we can afford to give up are:
* Knicks Pick
* Bulls Pick
* Ben Gordon
* Tyson Chandler
* Andres Nocioni
* Mike Sweetney
* About $9M in cap space to use/trade

So the question is... can we get two legitimate star players using those assets. And if so, how?

Given that with our "keepers" we've filled in the PG, SF, and C spots, we need a SG and we need a PF. So what are the options there?

Guys I'd try to get in order of preference
SG: Richard Jefferson, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson
PF: Chris Bosh, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Andre Kirilenko

Anyone think this can be done? Anyone think it will be done.
Interesting stuff. Although...Iguodala isn't even close to being a star, IMO. And I have my doubts about Richardson (bad teams), AK (injuries, not a go to scorer) and Jefferson (currently the 3rd best player on the 3rd best team in the eastern conference).

Still, we've got a lot of pieces and in theory should be able to make as good a play as anybody for Pierce, Bosh, Allen or Gasol...
 

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trade?

just say NO.

no ONE player is gonna get us into TITLE contention right now.

there is no one player on the market that would give us more wins than we have NOW.

what star in the league do you guys think can actually play for skiles?

now think about how many available stars could actually play for skiles?

how many budding stars?
 

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We might already have more than 1 star on our team, we just don't know who they are yet. Give 'em more time to develop and plug the gaps via the draft & free agency. The risks of trading away significant young talent for a single 'star' or a pair of 'stars' looks unnecessarily risky to me. Most of us didn't think we were trading away future all-stars when we dealt Miller & Artest for Rose, but we were.
 

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Mikedc said:
It seems pretty clear that the Bulls' first choice this offseason is to make a trade to get a star player. However, I think what's really necessary to make this a championship quality team is to get two star quality players (either by trade or by drafting guys who will be stars in the next couple of years-unlikely). One won't be enough. Why, two obvious reasons.

First, if we get a star, he's going to be an older player. Maybe not "over the hill" old, but old enough so we can't necessarily wait around for our young players to develop to their fullest. If we do, the older, current star will be going down just as the younger guys are really at their peak. That won't work... we need the most important guys on the team in their prime and at the peak of their abilities.

Second, the players we have, while good, are not yet (or in the next three years or so) good enough to put around a single star player and hope to win. Almost every championship eam needs two to three top level players. I can see Deng and Hinrich as the third guys (maybe the second in 5 years or so), but again, just getting one guy won't get us to where we need to go.

So the real question is whether the Bulls can get not just one, but two star quality players without giving giving up the complementary pieces needed to put around those two guys and make a champion.

My take is that the complementary pieces... those guys we can't afford to give up, are:
Kirk Hinrich
Luol Deng
Chris Duhon
Darius Songaila (because he's not going anywhere given the injury and because he's ok).
$6.5M Cap Space (enough to sign Joel Pryzbilla or maybe a combo of couple less heralded guys who can fill in the big man rotation)

That's five guys. Add the two stars and you've got seven. That's pretty much all you need... you should be able to scrabble together one more guy if you're good to get an 8th and solidify a rotation.

That means the assets we can afford to give up are:
* Knicks Pick
* Bulls Pick
* Ben Gordon
* Tyson Chandler
* Andres Nocioni
* Mike Sweetney
* About $9M in cap space to use/trade

So the question is... can we get two legitimate star players using those assets. And if so, how?

Given that with our "keepers" we've filled in the PG, SF, and C spots, we need a SG and we need a PF. So what are the options there?

Guys I'd try to get in order of preference
SG: Richard Jefferson, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson
PF: Chris Bosh, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Andre Kirilenko

Anyone think this can be done? Anyone think it will be done.

I think our core should be: Hinrich, Chandler, Deng, & Nocioni, possibly Duhon. Nocioni is really showing us something out there and we know what the rest of those guys are capable of. I like Pierce, RJ, and Jason Richardson a lot, I wouldn't do a deal for Allen or Iguodala at this point. I also think KG would cost too much and he isn't getting any younger. Bosh or AK would be great but AK isn't an especially good positional fit on this team. Doesn't matter since neither one is likely to be traded. I'm iffy on Gasol. Honestly, our best bet may be to just draft a couple of studs, maybe Bargnani & Brandon Roy? Maybe Aldridge & Sheldon Williams & sign a guy like John Salmons & maybe AD in the offseason? I don't know but it should be interesting if nothing else.
 

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Traditionally you look at past champions and who the second best player is, and you wonder how many Hinrich, Gordon or Deng EVER have a chance to be AS good as:

Second best players on NBA Champions

Celtics -- Bob Cousy, Jon Havlicek
76ers -- Hal Grier
Knicks -- Clyde Frazier
Bucks -- Lew Alcindor
Lakers -- Jerry West
Celtics -- Dave Cowens
Warriors -- Jamaal Wilkes
Blazers -- Maurice Lucas
Bullets -- Wes Unseld
Supersonics -- Jack Sikma
Lakers -- Magic Johnson (eventually Kareem Abdul-Jabbar)
Celtics -- Kevin McHale
Sixers -- Julius Erving
Pistons -- Joe Dumars
Bulls -- Scottie Pippen
Rockets -- Kenny Smith, Clyde Drexler
Spurs -- Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili
Lakers -- Kobe Bryant
Pistons -- Rip Hamilton (Take your pick)
 

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Fizer Fanatic said:
We might already have more than 1 star on our team, we just don't know who they are yet. Give 'em more time to develop and plug the gaps via the draft & free agency. The risks of trading away significant young talent for a single 'star' or a pair of 'stars' looks unnecessarily risky to me. Most of us didn't think we were trading away future all-stars when we dealt Miller & Artest for Rose, but we were.
Very true. It's noteworthy that most of the stars being mentioned as possible targets for trades are significantly older than the rest of the Bulls.

NBA stars seem to come in two flavors : Players who score a lot at their position, and players who are on winning teams. How many of the Pistons would have been named to the all-star game this year if their record had been 41-41 the previous year and not on a record-breaking pace this year?

Many of the current, younger Bulls have shown good improvement over last season (Duhon, Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Hinrich), and it is not unreasonable to extrapolate that growth for another year or two. If we keep that core together, add more youth through the draft and complementary free agents, refrain from coaching changes for another year, then team chemistry is almost certain to get stronger and the Bulls will be a winning team in short order.

If the Bulls improve their record to better than 50 wins next year (which I think is a possibility), don't be surprised to find a couple of the above guys in the all-star game the following year.

The Bulls don't need to add an existing star to become a quality team. Gutting the existing core to land Lebron James, Kobe Bryant or aging stars like Garnett would be be a mistake.
 

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McBulls said:
Very true. It's noteworthy that most of the stars being mentioned as possible targets for trades are significantly older than the rest of the Bulls.

NBA stars seem to come in two flavors : Players who score a lot at their position, and players who are on winning teams. How many of the Pistons would have been named to the all-star game this year if their record had been 41-41 the previous year and not on a record-breaking pace this year?

Many of the current, younger Bulls have shown good improvement over last season (Duhon, Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Hinrich), and it is not unreasonable to extrapolate that growth for another year or two. If we keep that core together, add more youth through the draft and complementary free agents, refrain from coaching changes for another year, then team chemistry is almost certain to get stronger and the Bulls will be a winning team in short order.

If the Bulls improve their record to better than 50 wins next year (which I think is a possibility), don't be surprised to find a couple of the above guys in the all-star game the following year.

The Bulls don't need to add an existing star to become a quality team. Gutting the existing core to land Lebron James, Kobe Bryant or aging stars like Garnett would be be a mistake.
I'd trade any two of our players and both of our picks for LeBron, and I wouldn't think twice about it.
 

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TripleDouble said:
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Hinrich and/or Deng havea chance of being as good as Ginobli or Hamilton (championship year he wasn't as good as he is now).
Hamilton is an odd case in the sense that you could argue that Billups, Wallace and Wallace are just as good. So they really have 1, 1a, 1b and 1c.

As far as Ginobili, it's a pickem with him and Parker so that Duncan is 1 and Ginobili and Parker are 2a and 2b.

I still don't see anyone on this team being the complete package like Manu Ginobili or as good as Hamilton. Ginobili brings athleticism and jib, and he doesn't need to be a big part of the gameplan to have a huge impact. I think Hinrich and Deng's better attributes could combine to be Ginobili. And before anyone starts with numbers, of course with Duncan and Parker his numbers are not going to reflect his true value.
 

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Darius Miles Davis said:
I'd trade any two of our players and both of our picks for LeBron, and I wouldn't think twice about it.
OK, James is worth that much. Particularly if the trade went down this summer, so there would be no impact on cap space.

The problem with most other stars is that their large salary will kill cap space as well as costing draft choices and current players. You end up not being able to build the team further.
 

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p_s said:
Jason Richardson is not a star because he plays for Golden State. I think that if he played in LA or closer to the East coast, he would be thought of as a young star. He's a top 15 scorer. That said, I would much rather prefer RJ.

While it would be nice to have 2 stars, I think that one of complimentary players steps up to be that second star. The only think that is holding Kirk or Ben back from being stars is that fact that they feel like they have to be the man. Either of these two players could be a secondary star to an alpha dog
Agreed, he has had some mind blowing games this season and if he played for a team that got an press at all he would definitely be considered a star.
 

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Mikedc said:
It seems pretty clear that the Bulls' first choice this offseason is to make a trade to get a star player. However, I think what's really necessary to make this a championship quality team is to get two star quality players (either by trade or by drafting guys who will be stars in the next couple of years-unlikely). One won't be enough.

That means the assets we can afford to give up are:
* Knicks Pick
* Bulls Pick
* Ben Gordon
* Tyson Chandler
* Andres Nocioni
* Mike Sweetney
* About $9M in cap space to use/trade

So the question is... can we get two legitimate star players using those assets. And if so, how?

Anyone think this can be done? Anyone think it will be done.
No doubt about it, two stars are better than one. However, considering that there don't appear to be any "can't miss" future franchise-making players in this draft, and there are no legit NBA stars who are likely to move in free agency, it's asking a lot to expect to get two true NBA-caliber stars with these assets.

In fact, one is going to be hard. Most GMs don't like trading true stars for non-stars...even for multiple non-stars. It tends to end up getting them fired. Sometimes star players want out of where they are, go public with their discontent, and try to force a trade. The problem there is that these players don't tend to be the unselfish "character guys" Paxson-Skiles want. What I suspect Paxson is hoping for is the GM or GMs who have a star and are looking to go in the good old "new direction" (because the current direction ain't working). The T-Wolves and Celts are possible candidates.

I'm not in tune with this sort of stuff as most of you folks are, but I just don't see any obvious ways for the Bulls to get a star, much less two of 'em.
 

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I'm not in tune with this sort of stuff as most of you folks are, but I just don't see any obvious ways for the Bulls to get a star, much less two of 'em.
You're right on the money imo, unless something whack happens like Mizenkay's post linking to the crazy RealGM rumour, I don't see us obtaining anyone in that category.

I reckon we should keep building on the foundation that is set and be patient with obtaining the "superstar". Detroit was a good team prior to the Wallace trade, he put them over the hump, but this team, no matter how much I want to delude myself, isn't there yet. A superstar would greatly improve us as it is, but it won't put us over the hump, so rushing this process I feel would just hurt us in the long run. Also who knows what will happen in a couple of years, maybe peoples opinions on Deng and/or Gordon might come true and we won't have to look far.
 
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