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Discussion Starter #1
When's the last time we've had a player capable of dropping 40 points and 13 assists?

When's the last time we've won 9 out of 10?

Ya I'll say it again, the Warriors sure did commit suicide by trading 2 guys who weren't going to be on their team next season for an all-star point guard.

So yay let's keep celebrating wins over doormats like Atlanta and a buzzer beater over Charlotte, meanwhile the Warriors are kicking *** and taking names.

Had we gotten Baron with that kind of winning we'd be right there with Denver for the 8th spot and I much rather be talking now about a potential playoff series rather than whether or not we should draft Rashad McCants.
 

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When did the Clips have a chance at getting him? Are you the clips GM. He is a good player but your bickering with Yam is becoming very irritating.
 

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Yeah, it is a shame seeing what Davis is doing for the Warriors. He could have been a nice pick-up.

If this thread becomes a bashing or insulting of certain posters, I am immediately closing it.
 

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arenas809 said:
When's the last time we've had a player capable of dropping 40 points and 13 assists?

When's the last time we've won 9 out of 10?

Ya I'll say it again, the Warriors sure did commit suicide by trading 2 guys who weren't going to be on their team next season for an all-star point guard.

So yay let's keep celebrating wins over doormats like Atlanta and a buzzer beater over Charlotte, meanwhile the Warriors are kicking *** and taking names.

Had we gotten Baron with that kind of winning we'd be right there with Denver for the 8th spot and I much rather be talking now about a potential playoff series rather than whether or not we should draft Rashad McCants.

It pains me to agree with you... But Baron Davis would have been a great pick up. He is playing at a very high level, and I think the best is yet to come.
 

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If the Clippers were interested, I'm sure they could have got Baron. They have quite a few tradeable assets. Packaging Kittles (expiring contract) with Kaman probably would have been enough, considering how little the Warriors gave up for him. He's an injury risk, yes. But for teams like the Warriors & Clippers (teams that are trying to get over the hump), I think it's a risk that would have been worth taking. The Warriors went for it, the Clippers didn't. Right now he's playing like the best PG in the league. If he gets hurt, people will be calling Mullin the worst GM in the league. It's a two way street. The Warriors weren't going to have enough cap room this summer to get an All-Star caliber player, so I think that's why they pulled the trigger. You guys, on the other hand, will have enough cap room to get whoever you want this summer. We'll see what EB does with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well considering the fact that as soon as Baron's name was out there and the Clips were connected, I think it's reasonable to say that it would have been possible to attain him.

I'm not necessarily calling anyone here in particular out, nor do I need to, my record on this issues and others speaks for itself.

For the Clips to have an expiring nobody like Kittles and not use him to parlay it into something like Baron is ridiculous. If Baron were 30, I wouldn't be interested, but considering he's 25 and his contract ends while he's in his prime, I don't know, for the price he ultimately went for, he would have been worth it.

I'm just not under the delusion that we will be able to sign a superstar, I believe if we're going to get one it would have to be via trade.

To say Baron is not a superstar just demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the game and denial of what Baron has done throughout his career.

All I know is right now they are on a roll, and we could be talking about how great the Clips look and be preparing for the playoffs had we stepped up to the plate.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Mavs4Life said:
It's a two way street. The Warriors weren't going to have enough cap room this summer to get an All-Star caliber player, so I think that's why they pulled the trigger. You guys, on the other hand, will have enough cap room to get whoever you want this summer. We'll see what EB does with it.
Cap space means nothing when you can't do anything with it. Atlanta has had cap space for years, what has it done for them?

Utah had cap this past year, what are they doing right now?

The Clips have a reputation and that rep is not going to be fixed just because of our actions the past 2 years. Great we went after Kobe, and we pat ourselves on the back because we "almost" got him. Almost doesn't count, in our pursuit of him we lost out on other oppurtunities and ultimately we used our cap space to trade for a scrub.

We offered money to Fred Hoiberg, Chris Mihm, Deshawn Stevenson this past summer, NONE of those guys came, if we can't get players like that, why are we convincing ourselves we can get a Michael Redd or Ray Allen?

It's silly, hopefully one day we'll wake up to the reality of our situation, hopefully one day we'll be proactive and get things done to actually make this team better, this hasn't been a bad year, but I'm not doing somersaults over it either.
 

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Cap space doesnt mean much also because you dont usually build a team through free agency unless its an MVP canidate. Most teams build through drafting and trades. That is why I think the Clips should keep this group together and let them grow. Shaun has shown you can give him the ball and let him create.
 

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arenas809 said:
Cap space means nothing when you can't do anything with it. Atlanta has had cap space for years, what has it done for them?

Utah had cap this past year, what are they doing right now?

The Clips have a reputation and that rep is not going to be fixed just because of our actions the past 2 years. Great we went after Kobe, and we pat ourselves on the back because we "almost" got him. Almost doesn't count, in our pursuit of him we lost out on other oppurtunities and ultimately we used our cap space to trade for a scrub.

We offered money to Fred Hoiberg, Chris Mihm, Deshawn Stevenson this past summer, NONE of those guys came, if we can't get players like that, why are we convincing ourselves we can get a Michael Redd or Ray Allen?

It's silly, hopefully one day we'll wake up to the reality of our situation, hopefully one day we'll be proactive and get things done to actually make this team better, this hasn't been a bad year, but I'm not doing somersaults over it either.
My point was that due to the fact that the Clippers do have cap space, there is the possibility of acquiring a top notch player this summer. Yes, I know there is no certainty that they will. But when you're deciding whether or not to take a risk on paying the max to an injury-prone player such as Baron for the next five years, the fact that you have a lot of money sitting around could make you a little hesitant to pull the trigger. Every team thinks they can attract the best players. Whether they can or not is a different story.
 

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Once again a terrible post saying that we should have done something, without looking long term. As others have said, many teams, including the clippers could have gotten baron with EASE. Why didnt they? Because of his contract and injury problem.

If he had a 1 or 2 year contract, i say the clippers would have probably would have given up near anyone on their roster outside of the main 4 to get him. But, no, he has a 5 year contract where hes owed 70 million. If he has a career threatening injury, which he has more of a chance of getting with his particular injury than pretty much anyone in the league his age, clippers still have to pay the salary because the injury is uninsured.

Bravo sterling for not being dumb nor desperate enough to take such a terrible risk. Theres a chance baron becomes an all star again and doesnt miss a game for 5 years. But the odds are he will again be shelved because of the injury problem, as he has for 3 years. Its not worth a 70 million dollar gamble. As a fan, all you care about is chances of winning, no matter what the cost. But remember, this is a BUSINESS, and its run by MONEY. ALMOST NO BUSINESS IN THEIR RIGHT MIND nor invidivual for that matter would take such a risk unless they had nothing to lose, or they just felt really "lucky." Sterling did not become as successful business man, and did not get such a profitable franchise on being "lucky." He takes the occasional risk, but theres no way hes going to take a 70 million dollar HUGE risk.

Good job for baron and that hes doing well in golden state. Maybe he can bring his average up to 20 points a game, and hopefully get to 40% shooting on the year, if he keeps up his good streak. Kind of hurt that with tonights 4 of 18 percentage, but he is a streaky player. Unlike others here, i dont "hate" on people who get injured, nor am i going to start calling him names. I actually have been following baron davis game since he was at crossroads high school. I enjoy watching him as a fan, and while hes not a superstar, if he ever was healthy hes a top 5 point guard in the league.

Cap space is very important. If you have an attitude of, 'oh ill never get this player" thats the attitude of a terrible team, and the clippers dont have that attitude. Cap space does mean a lot for some teams. Like this year, only 3-4 teams have a max slot available for a max type player. Only two of them (1 argulabley) this year, so that means the clippers have a 25% chance at getting one of them, which would be 0% if they didnt have the cap space. If they dont get one, its definately a loss, but again, you dont go into things like this with an attitude that you cant get someone. If all teams had that attitude, no one would sign restricted free agents to offer sheets, because theyd assume the other team would match it every time.

Again, lets say baron becomes an all star the next 5 years running. The clippers still at the time made the right move by not getting him. Too much of a risk. The game is about moving on the odds at the moment, you cant take 70 million dollar risks, when there is a history of injury. Paying ANYONE in the league 70 million is a risk in itself, so why quadrouple the risk with someone who has an injury as serious as baron?

Sure, the clippers could have gotten him for very little in return, but i wouldnt have done it if he came for free. Free would be as in if he were a free agent, coming off of 3 injury plagued seasons, and wanted 70 million dollars. Wouldnt happen. If he was a FA this year, he would not have gone for such a high contract because of the injury. On the same token, you dont trade for that contract either just because it might help you for one month, and even that would be iffy.

Retrospect is something that anyone can use. We can use retrospect to say how we could have gotten carter. Yes, i would have liked to see that, but again, at the time, the clippers made the right decision by not going after someone with his injury history, and play the last couple of years. But i still would have done a carter deal 100 times out of 100 before doing a baron deal. Carter is someone who is a bonafied superstar, no questions. Leading all star vote getter, whether he is injured or not, one of the most popular players since jordan, and he actually plays a position the clippers needed a superstar at. But again, i in the clippers shoes would not have done the deal either basing it on his condition.

Almost getting kobe most certainly does count, because it changed the image of our team. Hoiberg remained faithful to his team, he and ther other players mentioned were role players. If we would have offered them HUGE money they would have come. We too got players like mikki moore and rebraca who chose us over teams even offering them more money. So using your logic, we must be able to get redd and allen to come here for less money too. No, doesnt work that way. each situation is different. to say we couldnt get hoiborg so that means we cant get allen, is like saying hey we got rebraca, so we must be able to get allen. What you can compare it to is "hey we almost got kobe who is better than allen and redd, so dang, we have a chance to get those guys too."

In conclusion, again, good job baron the last couple of weeks, i like to see players like he, grant hill, hopefully kittles next year, kirilinko, etc. etc. come back from injuries. Injuries is no laughing matter, and its nice when they can be overcome. But there is nothing that can be said to say that the clippers made the wrong move AT THE TIME by not getting him. If he becomes mvp the next few years, still it doesnt matter. Clippers are not fortune tellers, they can only go one what gives the team the best chance to win, the best chance to make sure the clipeprs as an organization stay profitable.
 

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I love how you start a post by saying "oh another terrible post" coming from you that's just hilarious, a person who chooses to ignore facts.

At what stretch of this season had the Warriors won 10 of 11 before trading for Baron Davis?

Why don't you go read some of Pietrus's quotes where he talks about how easy the game has become because he has Baron getting him the ball, he's averaging like 20 ppg the last 5 or 6 games.

How easy would he have made the game for Brand? Maggette? Simmons? Kaman? Wilcox?

You love to bring up oh he shot 4-19 tonight, ok he also shot 10-13 from the FT line, he also had 11 assists, he finished with 22 points and 11 assists, that means he accounted for 50 points (49.5) tonight oh ya AND THEY WON.

Where would our club be right now if we had won 10 out of 11 and they have been beating PLAYOFF teams, it's not like us where we have an orgasm because we thump Atlanta and need a buzzer beater to beat Charlotte.

I mean damn, I love a good debate and a person who has a leg to stand on when they disagree, but you can't ignore facts, you can't ignore that he's had a phenomenal impact on that team, and you can't just automatically figure that he wouldn't have done the same for the Clippers.

You keep bringing up how much money Baron makes, well hell he's one of the best PG's in the game, he should be getting paid, you want to throw max dollars at Michael Redd, but have an issue paying a top 3 point guard who's only 25 years old and who's contract ends when he's only 30?

Ultimately I look at it like this, I wanted to make the playoffs this year, and instead every damn Clipper board you go to is now talking about whether or not we should draft Rashad McCants, another crap year as far as I'm concerned, and acquiring Baron would have changed all that.
 

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I have not ignored one fact. You are the one who ignores facts. name one fact i have ignored.

Ill name the ones you have ignored:

1. Baron's Contract size vs. his output the last 3 years.
2. Baron's high risk of serious or career threatening injury.
3. The uninsurability of baron's injury.
4. The reason why no other team who could get him, other than the warriors wanted him.
5. In business, you cannot take a 70 million dollar risk that big, when you are this close to being a playoff team for years to come.

Why don't you go read some of Pietrus's quotes where he talks about how easy the game has become because he has Baron getting him the ball, he's averaging like 20 ppg the last 5 or 6 games.
this has nothing to do with this debate, but i thought i might point out the fallibility of that statement. First, pietrus is averaging 12 points the last 5 games, and has averaged 3 poitns more since baron has gotten there. Dunleavvy on the other hand is averaging 3 points less, Richardson, 2 points less.

baron davis went 10 of 13 from the free thow line yet missed those 3 FT's in clutch time, giving portland a chance they shouldnt have had to tie the game. Again, this is not relavent to the debate on if the clippers should have signed him.

I have not ignored one of the actual facts, you cant name one. I have said that if baron could have stayed healthy for a few weeks on the clippers, they would have won more games, of course they would have, with the injuries we have. But, that is irrelevant. First off, it wasnt a guarantee that he would even be able to get healthy this season, something he hasnt been all year. There was a decent chance though, and im sure baylor and sterling though, well, he could give us an OUTSIDE chance of making the playoffs this year (i think even with winning 10 out of 11, they still would be on the outside looking in uness denver tanks here soon...and with the other injuries the clippers have had, the 10 out of 11 is not a given by any stretch), however again, baron davis isnt someone you sign for a playoff run. This is a guy with a 5 year 70 million dollar contract or somewhere thereabouts. YOu have to think long term. What are the chances that ill get my money worth of the 70 million? What has he done the past couple years to earn the 30 million or so that hes gotten? Am i guaranteed hes going to turn his career around, beat the odds, and actually earn his paycheck the next 5 years?" Answer is no. Answer is there is a VERY HIGH probability he will be injured, possibly seriously, and thus all that money was spent on one year, getting into the first round of the playoffs (if denver choked the last 7 games).

And all of this is not even beginning to mention that you have 5 years invested in your potential superstar of the future in livingston who plays the same position, and who cannot play SG. Meaning that baron, if/when he was healthy would have to play the 2, when for 90% of his career, he has been the main ball handler.

We could go on and on, if you keep ignoring the facts. I have not ignored one fact, i have brought them out, and even discussed them all. Youre not looking at the big picture though. You for some reason call me a "homer" for the clippers. First of all, thats what were here to be, but second of all, youre a lot worse of a "homer" if all you can think about is us winning a couple more games this year possibly by getting baron davis...not looking at what every other GM looked at, including our GM and owner, which is the all important "big picture" and Actually thinking about what 70 million dollars is going to.

And, no, if baron davis goes and gets injured im not going to go rejoicing and say i told you so, or something immature like that. Im not saying this because i want to say i was right down the road. Like i said, theres a small chance he never is injured again. Im just stating the facts of his salary, the facts of his injury problem, the facts of the risk in getting someone like him. Those are the facts you have ignored. Its not about the last 4 weeks of the 2005 season. Its potentially paying someone until 2010 70 million dollars, who has at best 30% chance of actually playing in all, or even 90% of the games.
 

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yamaneko said:
I have not ignored one fact......

Its potentially paying someone until 2010 70 million dollars, who has at best 30% chance of actually playing in all, or even 90% of the games.
30% chance? Where did that "fact" come from?

Sometimes you gotta swing for the fences. I'd rather take a chance on Baron than be stuck in mediocrity for another 10 years by playing it safe.
 

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halfbreed said:
30% chance? Where did that "fact" come from?

Sometimes you gotta swing for the fences. I'd rather take a chance on Baron than be stuck in mediocrity for another 10 years by playing it safe.

No guts, no glory.
 

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halfbreed said:
30% chance? Where did that "fact" come from?

Sometimes you gotta swing for the fences. I'd rather take a chance on Baron than be stuck in mediocrity for another 10 years by playing it safe.
Half you're talking to a guy who doesn't consider Baron a superstar, but says Vince Carter is.

He's quick to point out that Baron shot 4-19 last night, but ignores that Baron still accounted for half of the points of last night (22 points, 11 assists), he ignores that the Warriors had not won 10 of 11 before acquiring Baron. This was a team that was something like 22 games under .500 without Baron, and with Baron they are 14-7, that is over .600 basketball, and those wins are not "glorious triumphs" over doormats, those are wins over playoff teams.

He constantly brings up Baron's injury problems, and yes he has had them, he also has had 3 season where he's played all 82 games, so it's not unreasonable to think he could get back to that. I think being in better shape and not being on a team where he has to do the majority of the work is going to help him a lot in terms of getting healthy.

Furthermore he ignores the fact that had our team with Baron had gone on this kind of run (and there's no reason to suggest we wouldn't have), we'd be the #8 (possibly #7) seed in the playoffs.

Making the playoffs, WINNING, would do a lot more for this franchise than going after big name free agents and striking out every year.

This franchise put all of it's hopes last season on signing Kobe Bryant, we were "so close", hell fact is, even the Bulls had a shot, he personally had them come out and meet with him, and ultimately like us, they didn't get him. I don't see that as a moral victory, especially considering RIGHT AFTER that we offered money to Fred Hoiberg, Chris Mihm, and Deshawn Stevenson, and NONE of them signed with us, so my question again is if you can't even get role players like that, why the hell do you suddenly have the ability to reel in all-star players?

Ray Allen just publicly called us out saying he wouldn't play for us, so magically our reputation has been fixed in the past 2 years because we gave Mags and Brand $ and went after Kobe?

Apparently not.

I will continue to believe that the only way this franchise gets a superstar is via a trade, and Baron was our shot at a superstar.

This is a quote last night from Montgomery...

"Leadership," Golden State head coach Mike Montgomery explained. "He's a point guard that has the ability to make other players better. He's a true point guard."

Our team has a lot of talented players and Baron would have made our guys better, we have thumped the Warriors everytime we've played them this year, if Baron can do what he he's doing for them now, he would have made a world of difference for us, and hey I want a winner, I want to talk about playoffs, not about what free agents we aren't going to get, and who we're going to draft this summer and had we gotten Baron we would be winning and getting ready for the playoffs.
 

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30% chance? Where did that "fact" come from?
Its actually a rather generous figure. If you go just by the facts, by the numbers, the odds are 0%, inasmuch as since the injuries started, 3 years in a row, he has yet to play in even 82% of the games any year, and total 65% overall. So saying that theres even a 30% chance that he will play in all games over a five year period is rather generous, wouldnt you say?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You need to take a statistics class...

Baron Davis has played in all 82 games 3 out of the 6 years he's been in the NBA (this year being his 6th season).

I'm sure you know fractions and 3/6 in it's lowest terms is 1/2, so for every 2 years he's been in the league, he has played a full season.

That means there's a 50% chance that in the next 2 years he'll play at least 1 full season so your 30% is not only far from generous it's completely incorrect.

If you based off 5 years (in other words coming into this season) the chances would be even better.

I have to say at least you are consistent about being wrong, and not having a clue about what you're talking about.
 

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arenas809 said:
You need to take a statistics class...

Baron Davis has played in all 82 games 3 out of the 6 years he's been in the NBA (this year being his 6th season).

I'm sure you know fractions and 3/6 in it's lowest terms is 1/2, so for every 2 years he's been in the league, he has played a full season.

That means there's a 50% chance that in the next 2 years he'll play at least 1 full season so your 30% is not only far from generous it's completely incorrect.

If you based off 5 years (in other words coming into this season) the chances would be even better.

I have to say at least you are consistent about being wrong, and not having a clue about what you're talking about.

I think the best way to prove who is right in this arguement is to see what happens next season. I think Davis might have been our last chance at a real allstar. I think he would have fit in perfectly. Having both Davis and Livingsotn in the backcourt would have made the clippers probably one of the best backcourts in the game, not to mention that livingston probably could have learned a lot from him. And if they kept Jaric, he could have been the back up, which have given them more bench stability.

Next season will sum up this arguement no matter which side your on. If the Clippers end up with no one next season. (Yes, Arenas we all know your stance on this, so you dont have to argue your point again.. ) If the clippers end up not getting Allen, Redd, or a allstar of that caliber, and end up with the same basic team.. And Golden State only builds on there newly aquired allstar and say they blow the clippers out, and totally kill them in the standings.. Then I think that will be the answer on rather or not we should have gotten him.

Yam, you have a lot more faith in Sterling than I do. Your views are not the same ones I share about him. I respect your faith, but I disagree with your reasons. Sterling is considered the Joke of the NBA for a reason.. And it isnt beause he makes good decisions.

I am hoping for the best, however I fear that this Clipper team might be fundementally the same next season, except probably Bobby Simmons less, and Jaric less. But still no allstar.

As for Golden State? Right now they are better than some of the teams already making the playoffs, I am not sure I could say that about the Clippers because they simply cant win road games with any type of consistancey. Something that changes when you get a player like Davis, was evident that GS has won not only at home, but blown out good teams on the road.

All I can say is at the very least I hope we resign simmons, and Jaric (If cap permits), and I hope that we desperately get someone at the level we need. Although I'm short on faith, what the hell? Theres always hope right?
 

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Half you're talking to a guy who doesn't consider Baron a superstar, but says Vince Carter is.
Baron is no superstar. Im sure some are out there, but ive never seen an article call him a superstar in the terms of jordan, peirce, allen, bryant, etc. Hes just not there. But carter is in the media all the time as being a superstar and rightfully so. He has all of the things that make a superstar. 1. He is an uber freak athletically, can do things few people in the history of the game could do. 2. He brings fans to games just becuse hes playing in it. Road attendence is always up when his team comes to town, he is the main attraction. 3. Hes a gold medal winner. 4. hes the leading vote getter in all star votes for the usa, (6 time all star) 5. His jersey is a best seller. 6. His career average is over 24 points a game. 7. Career FG% at 45% 8. Career FT percentage at 80% 9. career 3 point FG% of about 40%. 9. He is actually considered a superstar by the media and general public. Not one of those things by itself makes you a superstar but all together, it would be hard to make an argument that hes not a superstar. Also using your near sighted viewpoint, you can say hes a big difference maker on the nets as far as wins/losses, especially amazing since the nets franchise player, Rj is out with injury. Now lets compare that to baron davis. 1. Is an above average athletic player, but doesnt have skills that set him apart from everyone. 2. Is not a big ticket seller for home nor road games. 3. Not played in the olympics. 4. 2 time all star. 5. Jersey isnt top 25, not even top 50 i believe. 6. Career average is 15 points a game. 7. Career FG% is 40% 8. Career FT% is 66%. 9. Career 3pt. % is 32%.
So while carter has all superstar level numbers, davis doesnt even have pratically any of those. Hes a top 5 PG when hes healthy, but that doesnt make you a superstar. Its not the PG's job to be the superstar. Best PG in the league this year is nash, and im not sure i would call him a superstar though. Superstar PG's are rare in this league compared to SG/SF. Magic Johnson, probably jason kidd...

he ignores that the Warriors had not won 10 of 11 before acquiring Baron. This was a team that was something like 22 games under .500 without Baron, and with Baron they are 14-7, that is over .600 basketball, and those wins are not "glorious triumphs" over doormats, those are wins over playoff teams.
How have i ignored that when i bring it up all the time? Actually one would think that they would be doing even better than that since they added his numbers, yet only lost claxton. Quit bad mouthing the clippers wins of late. They are winning with rebraca, simmons, kaman completely out, and jaric and ross out of some games, and when they play, are playing at about 70% if that.

he also has had 3 season where he's played all 82 games, so it's not unreasonable to think he could get back to that. I
Yet it is unreasonable to think he could. He could, but to say he will is unreasonable, since he did not have the chronic injury in those days that he does now.

Furthermore he ignores the fact that had our team with Baron had gone on this kind of run (and there's no reason to suggest we wouldn't have), we'd be the #8 (possibly #7) seed in the playoffs.
Wrong wrong wrong. First of all i have said that we would have won a few more games with baron daivs. But lets analyze that more carefully.

The proposed davis trade with the clippers was davis for: Marko Jaric, Kerry Kittles, Chris Wilcox, and a first round draft pick.

Ok, after the trade, davis started playing 2/27. That means the first game he would have played with the clippers would be on the 27th vs. the hawks. Clippers won that game. So so far, 1-0 with baron, 1-0 without him. Next game, 28th: Clippers lost by 1 point on a missed layup by simmons. Jaric and wilcox were non factors in the game, baron could have made the difference of one point. So far, 2-0 with baron, 1-1 without. March 3, clippers win 101-92 agasint dallas. WOuldnt have lost it with or without davis, so, 3-0 with baron, 2-1 without. Next game was a blowout loss to denver by 15 points. Baron at his playing level at the time would nto have been able to make up that much of a difference: so were at 3-1 with baron, 2-2 without. Next game a 3 point loss to the grizz. Would baron have made the difference? Hard to say. at that point, he still wasnt very healthy. Brunson that night started and went off for 9 points and 8 assists. Davis at that time for the warrirors had 9 points, 5 assists, 5 turnovers. Id say we still lose with davis that game, since brunson starting was more productive. SO, were 3-2 with baron, 2-3 without. Next game was a 9 point win agasint the lakers. We would have won that one either way. 4-2 with baron, 3-3 without.

Next game was a 1 point loss to sactown. would he have made the difference? Hard to say. We would have had had wilcox 7 points and 4 rebounds in that game, also brunson had a game of 10 assists and 1 TO, while on the same night davis had 3 assists and 5 turnovers. Howver, lets give arenas the benefit of the doubt on this toss up and say clippers would have won. 5-2 with baron, 3-4 without. Next game they beat the bulls by 5. In that game, brunson starting had 11 points 8 assists 7 rebounds, 3 TO's 4/5 shooting. wilcox 2 points 2 rebounds. Davis that day had 8 points 7 assists, 5 TO's and missed 10 out of 12 shots. I say we lose this game if we had davis, because of his bad play and shots that night. So were 5-3 with baron, 4 and 4 without. Next game an 8 point win at orlando. Would have won that one either way, so were 6-3 with baron, 5-4 without. Next game, HUGE blowout loss to denver that we would have lost either way. 6-4 with baron, 5-5 without. Next game was an OT lost to sactown. Would have won with baron. so were 7-4 with baron, 5-6 without. Next game was a win against portland. Would have won it with or without, so were 8-4 with baron, 6-6 without. Next game 8 point win agasint the bucks. Would have won it with or without, so 9-4 with baron, 7-6 without. Next game 4 point win agasint washington, would have won it with or without him, so were 10-4 with baron, 8-6 without. Next 4 point loss to minny. Lets say we would have won that game with baron, so now were 11-4 with him, 8-7 without. Next a 10 point loss to the cavs on the 29th. Lets go out on a limb and say baron would have meant those 10 points, and the clippers win that game. 12-4 with baron, 8-8 without. Next game a 20 point loss to the superstar carter and his nets. Davis would have made it a 10-15 point loss probably. So 12-5 with baron, 8-9 without. Next is a 7 point loss at detroit. We would have lost that game without baron too sicne on that day, davis had a bad night for the warriors, plus jaric went for 24 points that we would not have had, so 12-5 with davis, 8-9 without. Next two games were atlanta and charlotte wins, which we would have gotten with or without him, so 14-5 with davis, 10-9 without. The san antonio loss lets say the clippers still lose with or without him, especially because of the fact that without kaman and rebraca, and wilcox, and simmons, and jaric, its doubtful the clippers could have pulled that one off.

So where does that leave us? 14-6 with davis about the same the warrirors are, but we were 10-10 without him.

If we traded for him, taking this huge risk, and went 14-6 with him, which is dang optomistic, our record would be 38-38 with 7 games left. The 8th spot you said we could take over is still sitting comfortable with a 42-32 record. Clippers would have to win all 7 games, and memphis would have to go a dismal 3-6 just to tie them. You say we might even have gotten the 7th spot. For that, wed have to win our last 7 games, and denver would have to lose about 7 in a row.

So, yes we would have done better with davis this year, as i have said many times. But when you stop to take a look at it, it still, barring a miracle finish, would not have been enough for the playoffs. And youre still stuck with his salary and potential injury. Youve also let go of your most versitile player, and your biggest trade bait, as well as made sure you have no number 1 pick for the next 2 years.
 

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This franchise put all of it's hopes last season on signing Kobe Bryant, we were "so close", hell fact is, even the Bulls had a shot, he personally had them come out and meet with him, and ultimately like us, they didn't get him. I don't see that as a moral victory,
Bulls didnt have much of a shot, with their salary situation. Kobe sure loved being courted by jordans team though. He was never close to signing with them. Yes it was a moral victory because now everyone knows bryant was this close to signing with us until a last ditch effort by buss. Gives us respect, and shows that we can woo the best players in the nba.

AFTER that we offered money to Fred Hoiberg, Chris Mihm, and Deshawn Stevenson, and NONE of them signed with us, so my question again is if you can't even get role players like that, why the hell do you suddenly have the ability to reel in all-star players?
here you go ignoring again the facts. YOu cant use that logic. We went out and got ross, moore, rebraca, brunson, even N'diaye. What does that mean as far as getting big names? Nothing. If you say that we cant get hoiborg, thus we cant get allen, Thats like me saying, rebraca came here for less than other teams offered him, so we must be able to get anyone we want too for the same thing.

Ray Allen just publicly called us out saying he wouldn't play for us, so magically our reputation has been fixed in the past 2 years because we gave Mags and Brand $ and went after Kobe?
and he also has said that he would consider playing for us. Reputation doesnt mean anything in this situation. If the clippers offer him max money, what is he going to say? "clippers dont have a history of offering max money so im not going there...uh...wait, theyre offering me max money, and um...they dont even have any major guys becoming FA's any time soon so...um....nevermind. "

"Leadership," Golden State head coach Mike Montgomery explained. "He's a point guard that has the ability to make other players better. He's a true point guard."
Wow. You mean to tell me hes actually fulfilling his job description? A point guard who makes other players better? Incrdible. Does it also take montgomery to tell you that baron davis is a true point guard? So is rick brunson, but that doesnt mean much. Montgomery should have a lot higher words of praise, considering his only nba point guards hes coached are speedy claxton and derek fisher.

I want to talk about playoffs, not about what free agents we aren't going to get, and who we're going to draft this summer and had we gotten Baron we would be winning and getting ready for the playoffs.
No, as a matter of fact, we just as well might have not made the playoffs either. Not to mention the huge future injury risk in the future that would paralyize our organization.
 
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