I say during a bball game if that happens the officials offer one warning. If it happens again you start issuing T fouls.
OT: NCAA and Fan Behavior
Related to some discussions held on this forum about fans at AE schools during hoop games, the NCAA supposedly stepped in during the NCAA East Regional Ice Hockey Tournament and held discussions with officials from BU. There have been a couple threads on the USCHO Forum about this and maybe Seth or anyone else with BU connections can shed some light.
Apparently there were complaints after the Friday games about all the "F Bombs" included in the cheers from the BU student section. According to the USCHO posts, BU was threatened with minor penalties (two minutes of one less skater) during their game Saturday with BC if the vulgar cheering occured again.
Just bringing this up so we can all consider some self-policing to avoid similar incidents in the future.
Apparently there were complaints after the Friday games about all the "F Bombs" included in the cheers from the BU student section. According to the USCHO posts, BU was threatened with minor penalties (two minutes of one less skater) during their game Saturday with BC if the vulgar cheering occured again.
Just bringing this up so we can all consider some self-policing to avoid similar incidents in the future.
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
BU hockey fans are the most obsene in all of college sports. Worse than Terps basketball.
Their main chant is a bunch of claps, followed by 'f*** em up, f*** em up BC sucks!' (yes they do it at any game regardless of opponent. They also join in with a-hole and BS often.
This years beanpot was one of the worst ever for fan behavior in the BU section. One (I admit isolated) BU fan ran on the ice and tackled the BC mascot.
Their main chant is a bunch of claps, followed by 'f*** em up, f*** em up BC sucks!' (yes they do it at any game regardless of opponent. They also join in with a-hole and BS often.
This years beanpot was one of the worst ever for fan behavior in the BU section. One (I admit isolated) BU fan ran on the ice and tackled the BC mascot.
Let me begin by saying this: I think chants such as the ones mentioned are weak...at least be creative. I dont approve of those chants.
That being said...such a penalty for vulgar chants would swiftly be dealt with by numerous attorney's from BU if said penalty cost BU the game and in turn, monies earned because of an early exit.
BU does not A) Supply the security for the arena and B) has zero authority over the free speech of the students involved...PERIOD END OF STORY. At Agganis...maybe you have an argument (private facility run by BU, free speech rights are tenuous, etc).
The fact the refs even tried to handle this in that manner is comical. The fact BU fans would sink that low (again...the minority of fans...just like the jackals at UA) is sad!!
That being said...such a penalty for vulgar chants would swiftly be dealt with by numerous attorney's from BU if said penalty cost BU the game and in turn, monies earned because of an early exit.
BU does not A) Supply the security for the arena and B) has zero authority over the free speech of the students involved...PERIOD END OF STORY. At Agganis...maybe you have an argument (private facility run by BU, free speech rights are tenuous, etc).
The fact the refs even tried to handle this in that manner is comical. The fact BU fans would sink that low (again...the minority of fans...just like the jackals at UA) is sad!!
incorrect. Over on USCHO they have already found that poor sportsmanship by a team or it's fanbase can be penalized on the ice. It looks like it's in the NCAA rules, so that trumps any 'lawsuit'.
Plus the BU band partakes in this. Before ANY NCAA sporting event all AD's and band directors have a meeting to determine what is ok and what is not. THe band violated this, so again, the refs can do as they please.
Plus the BU band partakes in this. Before ANY NCAA sporting event all AD's and band directors have a meeting to determine what is ok and what is not. THe band violated this, so again, the refs can do as they please.
Actually, no it doesnt...but I am not getting into semantics on this board. NCAA rules do not trump the US Constitution.
Interestingly, the NCAA is involved in numerous constitutional arugments simply because they claim they are a private party, the other side claiming they are not. It is a very, very GREY AREA....VERY GREY. The USCHO can say all they want...but in the end...the NCAA, USCHO, are not immune to free speech arguments.
If, for example, a team had to forfeit 1mm in tournament money because of an unsportsmanlike call on a fan, in turn leading to the winning free throws with no time on the clock, you bet your *** their would be, depending on the situation, a good case for the aggrieved party.
I mean really, what if a Minn fan started cursing, but was wearing a BU uniform in the stands. BU GETS PUNISHED?
COME ON...use your brain...blackout...I KNOW YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THAT...and yes, I am complimenting you.
And, for the record, if the band was involved...that is a WHOLE OTHER BALLGAME---SCHOOL GROUP.
The tickets clearly state the recourse arena facilities have on non-school sponsored groups. IT IS CALLED BOOTING THEM because a ticket is merely a license...not a right. A famous example would be the New England Pat fan who had his tickets revoked becasue the guy he lent a ticket too (his season) tossed beer and was unruly.
Interestingly, the NCAA is involved in numerous constitutional arugments simply because they claim they are a private party, the other side claiming they are not. It is a very, very GREY AREA....VERY GREY. The USCHO can say all they want...but in the end...the NCAA, USCHO, are not immune to free speech arguments.
If, for example, a team had to forfeit 1mm in tournament money because of an unsportsmanlike call on a fan, in turn leading to the winning free throws with no time on the clock, you bet your *** their would be, depending on the situation, a good case for the aggrieved party.
I mean really, what if a Minn fan started cursing, but was wearing a BU uniform in the stands. BU GETS PUNISHED?
COME ON...use your brain...blackout...I KNOW YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THAT...and yes, I am complimenting you.
And, for the record, if the band was involved...that is a WHOLE OTHER BALLGAME---SCHOOL GROUP.
The tickets clearly state the recourse arena facilities have on non-school sponsored groups. IT IS CALLED BOOTING THEM because a ticket is merely a license...not a right. A famous example would be the New England Pat fan who had his tickets revoked becasue the guy he lent a ticket too (his season) tossed beer and was unruly.
I half agree with you, and thanks for the compliment.
First off, free speech has boundries when it comes to being obsene. Its against the law to yell obsenities in public i believe, right? (I'm no lawyer, so I could be wrong). And I can see your point if it were 1 isolated fan (for example a Minn fan ina BU jersey), but when it is several hundred sitting in BU jerseys, in tickets allotted to BU students, I think it is safe to say they were associated with the school.
While I agree they should have been tossed, I still think refs can take action. THere have been SEVERAL incidents where a team has been warned or penalized because their fans threw objects onto the court/field/ice. If the refs felt half an arena dropping the F-bomb was equally distracting and interfering, I dont see why they cant penalize for that too.
You make a good point about the money, but I cant see BU actually taking that to court. "Sure our fans were *******es, but it's still not fair". BU is responsible for controlling their fans. They should have set a precedent before this by revoking tickets of fans who were unruly or obsene (this chant has been going on for years. Many opposing teams and the league have objected and asked BU to do something. BU has been largely unsuccessful at stopping it).
And yes, the band was involved. THey play a song that provokes the chant, and they have been warne MANY times (by BU) to stop playing it. However they still do, and it doesnt look like BU ever followed through with much. If this is true I'd fire the band director no?
First off, free speech has boundries when it comes to being obsene. Its against the law to yell obsenities in public i believe, right? (I'm no lawyer, so I could be wrong). And I can see your point if it were 1 isolated fan (for example a Minn fan ina BU jersey), but when it is several hundred sitting in BU jerseys, in tickets allotted to BU students, I think it is safe to say they were associated with the school.
While I agree they should have been tossed, I still think refs can take action. THere have been SEVERAL incidents where a team has been warned or penalized because their fans threw objects onto the court/field/ice. If the refs felt half an arena dropping the F-bomb was equally distracting and interfering, I dont see why they cant penalize for that too.
You make a good point about the money, but I cant see BU actually taking that to court. "Sure our fans were *******es, but it's still not fair". BU is responsible for controlling their fans. They should have set a precedent before this by revoking tickets of fans who were unruly or obsene (this chant has been going on for years. Many opposing teams and the league have objected and asked BU to do something. BU has been largely unsuccessful at stopping it).
And yes, the band was involved. THey play a song that provokes the chant, and they have been warne MANY times (by BU) to stop playing it. However they still do, and it doesnt look like BU ever followed through with much. If this is true I'd fire the band director no?
The band provoking it is a whole different story. But to answer your question, free speech such as an obscenity laden chant is only considered "against the law" in limited circumstances. To be frank, it is way to detailed and open to interpretation (hence...constitutional) to go into detail, however a person(s) cannot induce behaviour that could create, for example, a riot.
I highly doubt an "FU chant," or whatever it was, would fall into this cateogry. DEATH TO THE PRESIDENT...would be. "ATTACK THE MINNESOTA PLAYERS" would be as well.
BU only has recourse against A) season ticket holders and B) fans who repeatedly (individually I might add) create a ruckus. Then, you could argue, BU would be liable for vulgar fan behavior.
Again, these incidents are clearly why the ticket says "we have the right to kick you out." The situation, however, is different when BU IS NOT IN CONTROL OF THE FACILITY, such as would be the case at an off-campus arena...even the FLEET CENTER.
And bet your bottom dollar that if this was a big money issue (ie. NCAA hoop tourney earnings) BU or any AE/HOCKEY EAST SCHOOL would fight for the $$$.
And yes, the band director SHOULD be fired. Ask statefan about the UMD chant (Terps, not Duluth). The band can no longer player certain parts of a song that ended in "YOU SUCK, YOU SUCK, YOU SUCK U."
I agree with you...BU should stop what they can...but some of it is out of their hands. Shoot...I am sure NUHF would have to have his mouth sewed up. Granted he is G-RATED...but man...I think he could win a smack contest with Michael Jordan.
I highly doubt an "FU chant," or whatever it was, would fall into this cateogry. DEATH TO THE PRESIDENT...would be. "ATTACK THE MINNESOTA PLAYERS" would be as well.
BU only has recourse against A) season ticket holders and B) fans who repeatedly (individually I might add) create a ruckus. Then, you could argue, BU would be liable for vulgar fan behavior.
Again, these incidents are clearly why the ticket says "we have the right to kick you out." The situation, however, is different when BU IS NOT IN CONTROL OF THE FACILITY, such as would be the case at an off-campus arena...even the FLEET CENTER.
And bet your bottom dollar that if this was a big money issue (ie. NCAA hoop tourney earnings) BU or any AE/HOCKEY EAST SCHOOL would fight for the $$$.
And yes, the band director SHOULD be fired. Ask statefan about the UMD chant (Terps, not Duluth). The band can no longer player certain parts of a song that ended in "YOU SUCK, YOU SUCK, YOU SUCK U."
I agree with you...BU should stop what they can...but some of it is out of their hands. Shoot...I am sure NUHF would have to have his mouth sewed up. Granted he is G-RATED...but man...I think he could win a smack contest with Michael Jordan.
I think the courts have shown on numerous occasions that free speech does have SOME limits. You can’t scream fire in a crowded theater! As fun as that could be to some sick peeps.Dane96 said:Let me begin by saying this: I think chants such as the ones mentioned are weak...at least be creative. I dont approve of those chants.
That being said...such a penalty for vulgar chants would swiftly be dealt with by numerous attorney's from BU if said penalty cost BU the game and in turn, monies earned because of an early exit.
BU does not A) Supply the security for the arena and B) has zero authority over the free speech of the students involved...PERIOD END OF STORY. At Agganis...maybe you have an argument (private facility run by BU, free speech rights are tenuous, etc).
The fact the refs even tried to handle this in that manner is comical. The fact BU fans would sink that low (again...the minority of fans...just like the jackals at UA) is sad!!
Ummm...thanks for the lesson, but I just stated what you said....
~the F*emup chant is objectionable. true. no contest. but this year, as far as i have been able to recall, no effort has been made to specifically stop BU fans from this cheer. yes, before every game there is the sportsmanship statement, but besides that, i have sat in the BU student section many times and never seen any statement or official or objection during the chant itself...
~the BS chant someone above objected to is NOT just BU hockey. i actually heard that one during march madness basketball quite a few times when a fan base did not agree with a ref's call
~a-hole, and even worse, the occasional you're a racist chant (no joke and i apologize) are awful and should be stopped, especially the latter.
~when i am in the BU student section i won't say either of those, and those chants, among others and random, ridiculous comments, are what caused me to by choice not sit in the student section @ the HEs or NCAA vs UNO (whose fans were a class act, btw, stayed excited and in the game and @ the end when there was no chance, just spontaneously started chanting UNO in support of their team)
~beanpot final- i didn't watch (i was in new york, nesn doesn't quite make it, don't start w/ what a bad bu fan i am... :sad: ) and so i won't comment s pecifically other than to say i'm sorry some solitary idiot from my school decided to do that and say the mascots riffing off each other during intermission was one of my favorite things @ the HE champs.
~the band's involvement in the first chant could be argued either way. they are absolutely not allowed to partake in the chant, and are not always the ones instigating it. half the time it's just some dude with a cowbell counting off with the fans singing the tune under him.
~things being thrown onto the ice/playing surface, especially if they hit someone or disrupt play should be penalized. things hurt more than words. i'm not saying inappropriate chants shouldn't be punished but things interfering with actual physical safety should be dealt with first.
as for basketball, i'm pretty sure bosiydid's first comment about 1 warning and then T's is in fact the rule, as it is for bringing prohibited items (i was @ a game once when some genius decided to bring a whistle, exactly like the ones the stripes had)
~the BS chant someone above objected to is NOT just BU hockey. i actually heard that one during march madness basketball quite a few times when a fan base did not agree with a ref's call
~a-hole, and even worse, the occasional you're a racist chant (no joke and i apologize) are awful and should be stopped, especially the latter.
~when i am in the BU student section i won't say either of those, and those chants, among others and random, ridiculous comments, are what caused me to by choice not sit in the student section @ the HEs or NCAA vs UNO (whose fans were a class act, btw, stayed excited and in the game and @ the end when there was no chance, just spontaneously started chanting UNO in support of their team)
~beanpot final- i didn't watch (i was in new york, nesn doesn't quite make it, don't start w/ what a bad bu fan i am... :sad: ) and so i won't comment s pecifically other than to say i'm sorry some solitary idiot from my school decided to do that and say the mascots riffing off each other during intermission was one of my favorite things @ the HE champs.
~the band's involvement in the first chant could be argued either way. they are absolutely not allowed to partake in the chant, and are not always the ones instigating it. half the time it's just some dude with a cowbell counting off with the fans singing the tune under him.
~things being thrown onto the ice/playing surface, especially if they hit someone or disrupt play should be penalized. things hurt more than words. i'm not saying inappropriate chants shouldn't be punished but things interfering with actual physical safety should be dealt with first.
as for basketball, i'm pretty sure bosiydid's first comment about 1 warning and then T's is in fact the rule, as it is for bringing prohibited items (i was @ a game once when some genius decided to bring a whistle, exactly like the ones the stripes had)
Refs can and have penalized the crowd before for both throwing things on the field of play and
for obscenity/unruliness. I haven't heard of it deciding a game or anyone getting sued YET.
The thing about our constitutional rights is that the rights of one are weighed against the rights of the whole, and there are definitely gray areas, i.e. where do the rights of the obscene stop and the rights of those who have to listen start??
Of course, if everyone did the unthinkable and just cheered for their own team and saved the heckling for the refs, we wouldn't be having this discussion. :biggrin:
for obscenity/unruliness. I haven't heard of it deciding a game or anyone getting sued YET.
The thing about our constitutional rights is that the rights of one are weighed against the rights of the whole, and there are definitely gray areas, i.e. where do the rights of the obscene stop and the rights of those who have to listen start??
Of course, if everyone did the unthinkable and just cheered for their own team and saved the heckling for the refs, we wouldn't be having this discussion. :biggrin:
bu bball girl: A refreshing post. While I know you're not the only one at BU admits that the BU hockey crowd can be pretty bad, no one on USCHO ever admits it, and if they do it's a 'yea we do bad things but so do other schools'. People need to be responsible for their OWN behavior.
I forgot about the racist chant, how stupid.
Section 118 (and 8 before that) is a perfect example of a 'crowd mentality'. One ******* can incite hundreds, and once it goes unpunished it becomes ok in their eyes.
I forgot about the racist chant, how stupid.
Section 118 (and 8 before that) is a perfect example of a 'crowd mentality'. One ******* can incite hundreds, and once it goes unpunished it becomes ok in their eyes.
I think I'll give classes before the AE Tournament in Boston next year.Dane96 said:Shoot...I am sure NUHF would have to have his mouth sewed up. Granted he is G-RATED...but man...I think he could win a smack contest with Michael Jordan.
Not bad for a white jewish kid with minimal athletic ability besides playing nose guard.
You should clear enough with THOSE classes to go to Portsmouth,
Vegas and next year's final four.
And we sign up where??? :biggrin:
Vegas and next year's final four.
And we sign up where??? :biggrin:
thanks... i'm not gonna lie, i do partake in the f*em up chant but i can see the other side too. i haven't thought about it recently because it's random. if it regularly happened after a certain occurrence it'd probably stick more in my mind as a problem/annoyance.black0ut said:bu bball girl: A refreshing post. While I know you're not the only one at BU admits that the BU hockey crowd can be pretty bad, no one on USCHO ever admits it, and if they do it's a 'yea we do bad things but so do other schools'. People need to be responsible for their OWN behavior.
I forgot about the racist chant, how stupid.
Section 118 (and 8 before that) is a perfect example of a 'crowd mentality'. One ******* can incite hundreds, and once it goes unpunished it becomes ok in their eyes.
i am going to plead the everyone does it excuse, but solely for the BS chant because i heard that a bunch this march.
on the flipside, like i said, the racist and ahole chants are ridiculous and i've sat down and shut up before, even in the student section, when they started.
and for the rest of my opinions, you can read the crazy-long post above...
Registration forms will be available in January of next season.cgcatsfan said:You should clear enough with THOSE classes to go to Portsmouth,
Vegas and next year's final four.
And we sign up where??? :biggrin:
Prerequisites: Participants are encouraged to read as much about their opponents as possible, and to learn the names of the key referees in the America East. Knowledge of pop culture is preferred, but not required.
I think some basic knowledge of the concept of "JEWISH GEOGRAPHY" is necessary; no doubt it comes up at least twice a season.
Posted by Bu_ball_girl on March 13, 2006, under the thread "Zito:"
"i agree. the albany student fans have no class whatsoever. there were actually things thrown at the BU bench during the game, which they were winning, and a few chants made that crossed lines of propriety, although none nearly so bad as the Zito chant/poster.
coach brown apparently got on the mike, as did a few of the event managers, but no action was taken whatsoever when the chants continued."
Today's quote under this thread:
"i agree. the albany student fans have no class whatsoever. there were actually things thrown at the BU bench during the game, which they were winning, and a few chants made that crossed lines of propriety, although none nearly so bad as the Zito chant/poster.
coach brown apparently got on the mike, as did a few of the event managers, but no action was taken whatsoever when the chants continued."
Today's quote under this thread:
I don't want to start a real fight here, but since you came down so hard on UAlbany fans earlier this season for behavior that was objectionable but much milder than the conduct found at most BU hockey games at which you were present and in which you participated, how do you reconcile your two comments? Just wondering.bu_bball_girl said:~the F*emup chant is objectionable. true. no contest. but this year, as far as i have been able to recall, no effort has been made to specifically stop BU fans from this cheer. yes, before every game there is the sportsmanship statement, but besides that, i have sat in the BU student section many times and never seen any statement or official or objection during the chant itself...~the BS chant someone above objected to is NOT just BU hockey. i actually heard that one during march madness basketball quite a few times when a fan base did not agree with a ref's call
~a-hole, and even worse, the occasional you're a racist chant (no joke and i apologize) are awful and should be stopped, especially the latter.~when i am in the BU student section i won't say either of those, and those chants, among others and random, ridiculous comments, are what caused me to by choice not sit in the student section @ the HEs or NCAA vs UNO (whose fans were a class act, btw, stayed excited and in the game and @ the end when there was no chance, just spontaneously started chanting UNO in support of their team)
~beanpot final- i didn't watch (i was in new york, nesn doesn't quite make it, don't start w/ what a bad bu fan i am... :sad: ) and so i won't comment s pecifically other than to say i'm sorry some solitary idiot from my school decided to do that and say the mascots riffing off each other during intermission was one of my favorite things @ the HE champs.
~the band's involvement in the first chant could be argued either way. they are absolutely not allowed to partake in the chant, and are not always the ones instigating it. half the time it's just some dude with a cowbell counting off with the fans singing the tune under him.
~things being thrown onto the ice/playing surface, especially if they hit someone or disrupt play should be penalized. things hurt more than words. i'm not saying inappropriate chants shouldn't be punished but things interfering with actual physical safety should be dealt with first.
as for basketball, i'm pretty sure bosiydid's first comment about 1 warning and then T's is in fact the rule, as it is for bringing prohibited items (i was @ a game once when some genius decided to bring a whistle, exactly like the ones the stripes had)
i re-thought my first ever comment on this board, i rewrote those comments, which you did in fact notice, i apologized for the former set of comments saying they were entirely too harsh and generalized, you commented on the change i made, i apologized directly to you in a post i made, an apology i meant to generalize to UA fans in general.
as for the quotes from the earlier post i made in this thread. the point i made was that no one commented, to my knowledge, to any member of the student section about the F* em up chant until the NCAAs, unlike at the UA game, where direct attempts/reprimands were made by the events staff and coach brown.
the part about the BS chant was not defending it, simply saying that BU hockey is not the sole user of that chant.
if you look directly below the comments about the ahole and racist chants and how they should be stopped you will see this quote "when i am in the BU student section i won't say either of those, and those chants, among others and random, ridiculous comments, are what caused me to by choice not sit in the student section @ the HEs or NCAA vs UNO"
i have attempted every way possible to make up for the first comment i made, and i will say it again, I WAS WRONG to phrase it that harshly and generally. however, the argument made based on the bolded sections of my post in this thread are unfair:
apology in traveling around AE:
"olddog, in response to your reply below, i will again apologize for my first reply, it was unfair and therefore one of the main reasons i was much more careful about my statement that formerly took up this space, and i admit your anger in your response below was deserved, no question or argument there. i removed the statement here because i clearly upset people, and i also decided i agree with my lack of experience being a factor. as for not trying to stir up trouble, i never meant to, but the first one did, and i realize that now, as i said. unfortunately, i was again attacked even for the more balanced reply."
dane96, i don't believe myself a hypocrite since i said in both cases the offenders should have been punished, and i did in fact apologize/attempt to make minor amends for the comments i made, again unlike the UA fans or the BU fans who were offensive to others. its true i was contacted by a moderator and i apologized to him and admitted again that i had been wrong, and he seemed to accept the apology and move on, i believe making note and giving me at least a degree of credit since i did in fact admit i was wrong. i don't think my actual comments pertaining to this thread's actual topic are offensive, and so i don't think i'm in the wrong anymore since the newest comments i made on the UA topic was the apology, and there is really really nothing else i can say, comments were made, they were inappropriate, i apologized, i honestly don't know what else i can do.
as for the quotes from the earlier post i made in this thread. the point i made was that no one commented, to my knowledge, to any member of the student section about the F* em up chant until the NCAAs, unlike at the UA game, where direct attempts/reprimands were made by the events staff and coach brown.
the part about the BS chant was not defending it, simply saying that BU hockey is not the sole user of that chant.
if you look directly below the comments about the ahole and racist chants and how they should be stopped you will see this quote "when i am in the BU student section i won't say either of those, and those chants, among others and random, ridiculous comments, are what caused me to by choice not sit in the student section @ the HEs or NCAA vs UNO"
i have attempted every way possible to make up for the first comment i made, and i will say it again, I WAS WRONG to phrase it that harshly and generally. however, the argument made based on the bolded sections of my post in this thread are unfair:
apology in traveling around AE:
"olddog, in response to your reply below, i will again apologize for my first reply, it was unfair and therefore one of the main reasons i was much more careful about my statement that formerly took up this space, and i admit your anger in your response below was deserved, no question or argument there. i removed the statement here because i clearly upset people, and i also decided i agree with my lack of experience being a factor. as for not trying to stir up trouble, i never meant to, but the first one did, and i realize that now, as i said. unfortunately, i was again attacked even for the more balanced reply."
dane96, i don't believe myself a hypocrite since i said in both cases the offenders should have been punished, and i did in fact apologize/attempt to make minor amends for the comments i made, again unlike the UA fans or the BU fans who were offensive to others. its true i was contacted by a moderator and i apologized to him and admitted again that i had been wrong, and he seemed to accept the apology and move on, i believe making note and giving me at least a degree of credit since i did in fact admit i was wrong. i don't think my actual comments pertaining to this thread's actual topic are offensive, and so i don't think i'm in the wrong anymore since the newest comments i made on the UA topic was the apology, and there is really really nothing else i can say, comments were made, they were inappropriate, i apologized, i honestly don't know what else i can do.
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