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please do not politicize this thread. Thanks
 

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Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
please do not politicize this thread. Thanks
We should send in troops to help.

How is that politicizing anything?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!


We should send in troops to help.

How is that politicizing anything?
because you referenced the "war on terror" and thats the same thing that happened in the 1st thread made about this. We don't need to politicize it. I'd like this thread to actually stay in this forum, instead of going off into ebb and never being heard from again.
 

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I think the Russians have learned a lot about this sort of thing since they gassed the theater in Moscow a couple of years ago.

It was good in theory but in application the same amount of anesthic agent might knock some people out and kill others.

I think you have to stall these folks out.

Find out what their demands are and make them think they are being considered.

Then you have to make it personal; attempt to arouse some sympathy amongst the kidnappers for their hostages.

Make them feed them and tell them stories about their families and such.

Try to find a conscience among the kidnappers and exploit it.

And when it's all said and done and you've granted them amnesty for their actions take your hands from behind your back and wave your crossed fingers in their face as you pull a Blackjack Pershing on them.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Target</b>!
I think the Russians have learned a lot about this sort of thing since they gassed the theater in Moscow a couple of years ago.

It was good in theory but in application the same amount of anesthic agent might knock some people out and kill others.
Wow.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by <b>Target</b>!
I think the Russians have learned a lot about this sort of thing since they gassed the theater in Moscow a couple of years ago.

It was good in theory but in application the same amount of anesthic agent might knock some people out and kill others.
I was thinking about that. You know, putting in laughing gas, or something to knock them out. But then I thought..these guys aren't stupid. They'll see this coming. They'll have masks on, and once they see that the place is being infiltrated with knock-out-gas, they'll put the masks on. And then they might start shooting the hostages..

One of the most scarring (hostage) related incident. I think it happened in San Diego. Anyway, some thugs robbed a video store (I think) and took some hostages. After a while, they had the hostages lie on their stomaches. About 45 minutes into it, and when something happened outside the building..the gun-men ran up and down the store, shooting people in the back of the heads (including a few children I believe).It's something I can't forget, and I wish I could.
 

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Before the cold war ended with the trearing down of the Berlin Wall, Russian citizens were nearly untouched anywhere in the world by terrorists. Why? If a Russian citizen was killed the Russian KGB would slowly identify the perpetrators and then one by one their family members would start dying. Then relatives... it was a very effective strategy. Now, to be sure I am NOT suggesting we adopt this type of militia attitude, but it points out that terrorists do understand that when there are unwarranted consequences to their actions, they think long & hard about who they're killing.
 

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Seven people were killed and 400 wounded.

Russian forces storm school; 7 killed



BESLAN, Russia (AP) — Commandos stormed a school Friday in southern Russia and battled separatist rebels holding hundreds of hostages, as crying children, some naked and covered in blood, fled through explosions and gunfire. At least seven people were killed and 400 wounded.

The extent of the casualties was not immediately known. A cameraman for the British network ITN reported seeing around 100 bodies in the gymnasium were the hostages — reportedly up to 1,500 of them, mostly women and children — were held for nearly three days.
Regional emergency officials said 250 hostages were wounded, including 180 children. The head of a children's hospital in the regional capital of Vladikavkaz said five of the 68 wounded children brought there were in grave condition. Interfax reported more than 400 wounded, including hostages and local residents.
That was a hard stance by the Russian Government, I thought that they were going to rule out force (because of the children) or use it as a last option, did they really use up all their options in three days? Sounds like it was hell inside that school.



Oregonlive.com
 

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They didn't storm the school from what I read. They had negotiated to send in emergency crews in to remove the dead people that the terrorists had killed when they took the school. Apparently, some\one? of the terrorists got itchy trigger fingers and began firing, several of the children, who were frightened (naturally) began to run & the terrorists shot them, and one blew himself up, apparently.


Reading this just made me sick to my stomach. How anyone could think you could negotiate with such people is amazing to me.

Not planned
Russia's security chief said the storming of the school was not a planned operation.

"I want to point out that no military action was planned. We were planning further talks," the regional head of the FSB security service, Valery Andreyev, told RTR television.
The violence began after militants had agreed to let Russia retrieve the bodies of people killed early in the raid. Explosions went off as the emergency personnel went to get the bodies at around 1 p.m., collapsing part of the roof of the building, and hostages took the noise as a signal to flee, officials said.

Militants opened fire on fleeing hostages and security forces returned fire. Once the hostage-takers sought to escape, Russian officials apparently made the decision to storm the building.

The militants had reportedly threatened to blow up the building if authorities tried to storm it, but all indications suggested the explosions began before the assault. Russian officials repeatedly said they were not planning to invade and had earlier won the release of 26 hostages through negotiations.
Soldiers and men in civilian clothes carried children — some naked, some clad only in underpants, some covered in blood — to a temporary hospital set up behind an armored personnel carrier. One child had a bandage on her head, others had bandaged limbs. Some women, newly freed from the school, fainted.

The children drank eagerly from bottles of water given to them once they reached safety. Many of the children were naked or only partly clothed because of the stifling heat in the gymnasium.

“I am helping you,” a man dressed in camouflage told a crying girl. Women gathered around, trying to soothe her, saying “It’s all right. It’s all right.”
:(

Negotiators said the hostage-takers had repeatedly refused offers of food and water througout the standoff.

“They are very cruel people, we are facing a ruthless enemy,” said Leonid Roshal, a pediatrician involved in the negotiations. “I talked with them many times on my cell phone, but every time I ask to give food, water and medicine to the hostages they refuse my request.”
MSNBC
 

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To Russia with love

Our best wishes to the Russian familes of all those kids. Wow...

as a father of three school age kids... its a horrible thing to read.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
They didn't storm the school from what I read. They had negotiated to send in emergency crews in to remove the dead people that the terrorists had killed when they took the school. Apparently, some\one? of the terrorists got itchy trigger fingers and began firing, several of the children, who were frightened (naturally) began to run & the terrorists shot them, and one blew himself up, apparently.


Reading this just made me sick to my stomach. How anyone could think you could negotiate with such people is amazing to me.







:(






MSNBC
That was the title to the story that I cut and pasted. I heard on the news driving in today that there were a lot more than 7 dead from this event. Totally blows my mind, these people are sick, what cause could bring you to such a level that you take it out on young kids who have done nothing to you. :nonono:
 

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If anyone is interested, the International Foundation for Victims of Terror Acts, an organization set up by Russians and Americans, has set up a site to allow folks to send donations to the victims of the Beslan disaster.

I'm pretty sure this is legit, the Russian Embassy is listing it and they have a letter showing their tax status from the IRS on their site.
 

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I think it has to be said that this was not an act of independence by mere Chechen separatists.

This act was committed by a bunch of terrorists. Half of them were Arabs, and ALL of them were muslims, spawned from the same (at least previously) Saudi-funded madrassas and wahabist doctrine as Al Qaeda.

As Steyn points out today,
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10677436^7583,00.html

The reality is that the IRA and ETA and the ANC and any number of secessionist and nationalist movements all the way back to the American revolutionaries could have seized schoolhouses and shot all the children.

But they didn't. Because, if they had, there would have been widespread revulsion within the perpetrators' own communities. To put it at its most tactful, that doesn't seem to be an issue here.
 

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I could understand chezh rebels attacking russian troops, or police. But civilians and children? Do they really think international support will swing their way if they kill innocent people.

Morons.
 
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