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"Meow."
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Discussion Starter #1
If the Pacers win the championship, Ron Artest will be MVP. His stats are solid if not spectacular:

21.0 ppg, on .479 shooting, .414 from the three, 5.7r, 2.6 a, and a gaudy 2.4 s.

Artest's the best defender in the game in terms of both forcing turnovers, and locking his man down. Second isn't even close, as Lebron found out yesterday. The Pacers are once again contendors and Artest is their heart and soul.

I saw the Brand MVP thread and thought, It's time to give ex-Bull Artest some love. :banana: Perhaps, the only true superstar the Bulls have drafted in the post-Jordan era? Lets hear it for Ron- Ron!
 
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Anti Monday Morning QB
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I liked what Jermaine O'Neal had to say about Ron during that short interview shown during the game yesterday. Sounds like he has settled down a bit.
 

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Oladipo for the people
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Stern has no say in it. Although I doubt Artest would win it, I would sure love to see it. Hes a real passionate guy, and one hell of a ball player.

I remember an old SLAM article with Ron and Elton. You guys sure would have a sick team with 2 blue collar superstars shutting people down and dominating on the offensive end.
 

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God, how frickin' depressing to contemplate the depressing fact that two players currently being discussed for league MVP, each of whom possesses a complete game, offensively and, more importantly, defensively, one as an interior player and the other on the wing, are non other than....

Elton Brand and Ron Artest!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus, did Thomas flash a jelly doughnut in front of the sleuth's longing eyes and salivating mouth to finalize what has to be one of the worst, if not THE worst, trade in NBA history. I still have ocassional thoughts of absolute disgust when my mind turns to that Jalen Rose catastrophe...
 

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Ron Artest. The only player we've given away for which I could say "I didn't see this coming." I really thought he would never be more than a solid defensive specialist player who would at best average 16 ppg. I can't believe that he's turned into a go-to guy. Even though his stats aren't up there with Elton's, I would agree with SST that he's the only true superstar we've drafted Post-Jordan.
 

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"Meow."
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Discussion Starter #8
Ron Artest.

Thursday: Scores 21. Steal, block. Hounds Lebron James. Pacers beat the red hot Cavs.
Friday: Sits out due to wrist injury. Pacers lose to lowly Cavs. Joe Johnson scores 16. Al Harrington 17.
Sunday: Scores 22. 4 steals and a block. Pacers beat the red hot Clips.

Pacers live and die with his play. . .
 

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such sweet thunder said:
Ron Artest.

Thursday: Scores 21. Steal, block. Hounds Lebron James. Pacers beat the red hot Cavs.
Friday: Sits out due to wrist injury. Pacers lose to lowly Cavs. Joe Johnson scores 16. Al Harrington 17.
Sunday: Scores 22. 4 steals and a block. Pacers beat the red hot Clips.

Pacers live and die with his play. . .
Sunday:

 

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Or can you imagine if we had Artest on the floor with Chandler? Wow, that would be a defensive force. Add Elton Brand, and that's one heck of a front court.
 

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^^Brand was essentially traded for Chandler, so that's a little inaccurate.

But still--think of this starting lineup that we could have had:

C Brad Miller (signed)
PF Elton Brand (99 draft)
SF Artest (99 draft)
SG Hinrich (03 draft)
PG Duhon (04 draft)

IF we had been patient and simply sat on our asses the first year post-Jordan...this would have been the lineup. No trades, no free agency worries, nothing. Just through the draft (except for Brad) we would have automatically been one of the top 5 teams in the league--one of the best backcourt pairings combined with arguably the best 3-man frontcourt, with two potential MVP candidates at the 3 and 4 and a big ox who kicked Shaq's *** at the 5.

Krause, kiss my a$$ is all I got to say.

-Z-
 

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i love tru "warier" but i have a hard time seeing him pull off an MVP, although im not saying he doesn't deserve it.
 

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"Meow."
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Discussion Starter #14
kukoc4ever said:
Isn't it pretty common knowledge that Krause was not in favor of trading Artest and Miller for Rose?
You know, enough time has passed where I can actually say that I don't care who's fault shipping Ron was. I became a huge Artest fan when he was with the Bulls. But, I was never a Ron Artest fan solely because I was a Bulls fan. Fellah' can dominate on Defense like no other player in the league. I'll watch him manhandle a superstar any day of the week. . . and it's not because of his old Bull allegiances.
 

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Rollin Wit Da Homies
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Another "what if" thread?

Think about how many not-so-great players we've also let go. From the Artest/Brand/Miller angle it comes off as if we haven't made a good deal since we drafted Kukoc.

Just for good measure, I'll bring out the old counter-arguments to this type of thinking.

1. We've made good roster moves since then. Jay Williams was a freak accident; I think that he'd certainly be one of the better PG's in the league today. But otherwise, acquiring Curry and Chandler were not terrible moves. And drafting Hassell, Hinrich, Gordon, Deng and Duhon have been solid draft picks, making us more successful in the draft than a lot of teams have been.

Trading for Jalen Rose wasn't a terrible move at the time. If he had had a different attitude, and if Crawford had also had a different attitude, and had we been employing a serious NBA coach and not a Bulls-sentiment Bill Cartwright (good guy, good ideas, no experience), I daresay that a team wielding Hinrich, Crawford, Rose, Chandler and Curry would be tremendous. You can always play the "what if" game both ways.

What we actually did get back in trading Rose later for AD + JYD was salary cap relief (Rose gets paid through 2007, and we get that money to spend in 2006), and veteran leadership that Rose could not provide.

We can debate the Crawford and Curry trades forever, if you'd like, but at the worst, they were amibugous moves and based on fit.

The final sub-proof that sort of makes other arguments irrelevant is that Rose's team and Crawford's and Curry's teams are terrible right now, while our team is solid and excited for future growth, as well as flexible enough to add major pieces in the next year. The Knicks and the Raptors have no such hope at all.

2. We have no idea what Miller and Artest would look like if still in Chicago unis. This is important. Lots of players do much better in different environments with different pieces around them. Miller is a talented passer who can handle just enough at the center spot where he needs to be well-used. The Kings are the ideal system for him.

Artest needs to be a star amongst stars. With O'Neal in Indy, along with a strong cast of Tinsley and Jackson, Artest can excel at his position and not have to constantly carry his team. We don't know what Artest might have looked like had he stayed on with the Bulls.

3. There's no guarantee that we'd still have Artest or Miller on our team today, after their rookie contracts expired. Does any bottom team in the NBA give out max contracts to all of its talent, committing to players who have been winning 35% of their games at best? Reinsdorf + Krause would not have been the types to sign Artest or Miller to max deals which they deserved.

I think Brand's talent was unmistakeable, but it was EXACTLY because Brand was due for an extension that Krause traded him for a rookie contract. JK was in no way ready to commit to ANY player on a roster of players who produced NBA-record lows in win totals.


Yes, Artest is a great player, and so is Miller, and so is Brand. Brand and Artest could be MVP types, although both their teams are too good for them to have legitimate opportunities to win. But 1) we've made good deals since then and our team is better off than a lot of the other teams we traded some of our ill-fitted players to; 2) we don't know how Miller and Artest might perform had they stayed on in Chicago; and 3) we don't know that we'd still have been able to hang onto Artest or Miller (or Brand for that matter) had they stayed on our team since the team was doing so poorly.
 

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"Meow."
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Discussion Starter #16
Showtyme said:
Another "what if" thread?
To me this is more of a follow your favorite ex-Bull thread. I'm not so concerned about the "what if" anymore. . .
 

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BAIT
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grace said:
I have a hard time believing Artest will be voted MVP. Stern would have a stroke.
I have a harder time believing the Pacers will win the championship. They're not as good of a team as everybody seems to think they are.
 
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