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Discussion Starter #3
the link doesn't work!!!
 

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fruitcake said:
I'm sure a lot of you have seen what Vince has done as a raptor, its just sad that the Raptors gave him up so easily.

Here's a nice video that I found
http://home.uos.ac.kr/~injuni/vcvid_03.wmv

source: http://hoopchina.com/vbb/archive/index.php/t-22886.html
The Raptors gave him up so easily becase for the last year that he was with the team he was a slacker - something he admitted to the public. As a result of this, no team offered the Raptors anything better than the Nets did. Hence him being with the Nets right now.
 

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Slasher said:
The Raptors gave him up so easily becase for the last year that he was with the team he was a slacker - something he admitted to the public. As a result of this, no team offered the Raptors anything better than the Nets did. Hence him being with the Nets right now.
Thanks for giving US Carter. WE really do appreciate it.

Carter's fall in performance can also somewhat be attributed to the fans and media. It's tough to play day after day with everything you have when you're hearing criticism from all over. Especially for someone with a fragile ego, which apparently Vince has. But since arriving in NJ, Vince's ego has been given a jolt and he is back to his former level.
 

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Slasher said:
The Raptors gave him up so easily becase for the last year that he was with the team he was a slacker - something he admitted to the public. As a result of this, no team offered the Raptors anything better than the Nets did. Hence him being with the Nets right now.
i dont think so....i think the fans were starting to get impatient with his numerous injuries and were too hard on him. It was unbelievable watching Raptor games and hearing boos when Vince toucehd the ball when it was just a few years ago when the same crowd was roaring for this same guy.

about this slacker thing and admitting to the public...its contaversial but IMO he did not mean that he didnt try in Toronto, he meant that because of his talent, he didn't push himself as hard as he could. The fans in Toronto have been hard on him since the 2000 season, critisizing him for going to the graduation, not making that last second shot, etc. It is not that Vince is a slacker, the fans in Toronto are just so damn hard on him and not willing to give him a chance.

Toronto gave him away too easily because Rob Babcock realized that the fans didnt want him anymore and gave him away before he could get more offers. I seriously believe that there would be a lot more offers (better ones) from other teams had Vince stayed on the Raptors longer.
 

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I think the excuse of fans being too hard on an athlete is not a valid one. Sports world-wide - the NBA, NHL, CFL, NFL, FIFA, and so on have a lot of athletes that have to play in tough stadiums and environments on a night to night basis. Blaming the fans on an athlete’s willingness to give it his all to his team in order to win is a very poor excuse.

After all, when you're making $90-million to play basketball I don't think the fans want to hear too many excuses coming from you.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
after the 2000 playoff run, the fans expected Vince to carry them just as far or farther the folliwng year. The team did not have many good years after that and the fans blamed it on Vince. Was it Vince's fault? partly. the rpators did not have a good supporting cast and the constant coaching changes didnt help. Did the fans put too much of the blame on their ailing superstar? Definitely
 

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fruitcake said:
after the 2000 playoff run, the fans expected Vince to carry them just as far or farther the folliwng year. The team did not have many good years after that and the fans blamed it on Vince. Was it Vince's fault? partly. the rpators did not have a good supporting cast and the constant coaching changes didnt help. Did the fans put too much of the blame on their ailing superstar? Definitely
Nobody expected Vince to carry the team. People expected Vince to give it his full effort in winning ball games. Philadelphia fans are not down on Allen Iverson for one reason - because he gives it his 100% each and every game. Even though the Sixers are not playing all that well this season, you don't see people criticising Allen because he brings it each night.

In Toronto, Vince would jack up threes and would get to the free-throw line 2-3 times a night if it was a good night. Success and winning ball games is one thing and effort is another. Vince did not bring effort to the Raptors for the past couple of seasons, hence the fans and media getting on his case.

And after the 2001 playoff run the Raptors had they had plenty of good players around Vince - Alvin Williams, Morris Peterson, Jerome Williams, Chris Bosh, Antonio Davis, etc. I would take that cast any day to the players that the Nets currently have away from Kidd.
 

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Chris Bosh has only played with Vince for a year or so.. As for Alvin Williams, Morris Peterson, Jerome Williams,Antonio Davis... I wouldn't say they are much better than Richard Jefferson, Nenad Krstic, Jason Collins, Travis Best, Ron Mercer, Rodney Buford, etc. Just the fact that this team has RJ and Kidd beats out any player that Vince has played with in Torotno (maybe except for T-mac)

I have watcehd Raptors games and I know tha the has had many games inwhich he doesn't seem to be putting in his all. However, I think that the reason he is doing it is because of the fans and media critisizing him every chance they get, and not the other way around.

And finally, Vince Carter is not a great leader. He is not an Allen Iverson type of guy. He should not be left to carry a team by himself. Thats why he is happy in New Jersey, RJ and Kidd really helps him. However, the fans expected him to carry the team and expected him to lead the team. Vince tried his best, but his injuries, decreasing fan support, coaching changes, poor supporting cast eventually overcame him.
 

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fruitcake said:
Chris Bosh has only played with Vince for a year or so.. As for Alvin Williams, Morris Peterson, Jerome Williams,Antonio Davis... I wouldn't say they are much better than Richard Jefferson, Nenad Krstic, Jason Collins, Travis Best, Ron Mercer, Rodney Buford, etc. Just the fact that this team has RJ and Kidd beats out any player that Vince has played with in Torotno (maybe except for T-mac)

I have watcehd Raptors games and I know tha the has had many games inwhich he doesn't seem to be putting in his all. However, I think that the reason he is doing it is because of the fans and media critisizing him every chance they get, and not the other way around.

And finally, Vince Carter is not a great leader. He is not an Allen Iverson type of guy. He should not be left to carry a team by himself. Thats why he is happy in New Jersey, RJ and Kidd really helps him. However, the fans expected him to carry the team and expected him to lead the team. Vince tried his best, but his injuries, decreasing fan support, coaching changes, poor supporting cast eventually overcame him.
There is no way you can include Richard Jefferson in your arguement. The guy played only a few games with Vince.

Nets lineup: Jason Kidd, Jacque Vaughn, Vince Carter, Jason Collins, Nenad Krstic.
Raptors lineup: Rafer Alston, Morris Peterson, Jalen Rose, Chris Bosh, Aaron Williams.

Kidd > Alston
Vaughn < Peterson
Collins < Bosh
Krstic > Williams

There is no way that you can say that the Nets have better players around Vince Carter than what the Raptors had when Vince was here earlier in the season. Don't forget that the Raps also have Donyell Marshall, Rafael Araujo, Matt Bonner, and Lamond Murray off the bench.
 

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i dont see why i can't include RJ in my argument. after all, his prescence on and off the court helps vince too.

and i think kidd makes the team around him much better than any of the guys that played/play for toronto. part of the reason vince is having a better season in new jersey, is that kidd sets him up for so many easy baskets. I dont think there has been many non-offensivly minded poitn guards (such as alston or alvin williams) that look to pass the ball and create easy baskets such as kidd does.
 

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fruitcake said:
i dont see why i can't include RJ in my argument. after all, his prescence on and off the court helps vince too.

and i think kidd makes the team around him much better than any of the guys that played/play for toronto. part of the reason vince is having a better season in new jersey, is that kidd sets him up for so many easy baskets. I dont think there has been many non-offensivly minded poitn guards (such as alston or alvin williams) that look to pass the ball and create easy baskets such as kidd does.
You are on the money right there. Jason Kidd does bring out the best out of players. My only arguement is that away from Kidd, the Nets don't have any better of a team than the Raptors do.
 

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i dont have much of an answer to that...but i know that RJ, Kidd and VC will be unstoppable once they start playing more games together and krsitic will blossom into a very good player...

as much as i would like to continue this debate with you, i think we should end it here. lets just say vince's career has gone through a rebirth in New Jersey and his past with Toronto should be remembered as good and not all bad.
 
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fruitcake said:
i dont have much of an answer to that...but i know that RJ, Kidd and VC will be unstoppable once they start playing more games together and krsitic will blossom into a very good player...

as much as i would like to continue this debate with you, i think we should end it here. lets just say vince's career has gone through a rebirth in New Jersey and his past with Toronto should be remembered as good and not all bad.
Agree ;)

On another note, how come you guys arn't playing Zoran Planinic? 12.8 minutes seems pretty low considering his potential. What I saw last year and earlier this year when Kidd was injured impressed me. Too bad he isn't being developed as the main backup behind Kidd.
 

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The raptors gave him up easily????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????? We've been babying his spoiled premadona *** for years like he is some kind of god. Than Sam mitchell comes in and says hey ***** why dont you play hard for once or get outta my site and sit on the bench. The vince said AWWWW how dare you.

Do u know the **** we have put up with from this ******* for like 3 years, its like he was a different person. Enjoy your vince cuz that wasn't the guy we had. Dont worry HE WILL TURN INTO AN ******* AGAIN AS SOON AS HE REALIZES THINGS AREN'T GOING HIS WAY. u better pray Kidd doesn't leave. Now J.Kidd has heart. IT's all good April 15 is marked on the calendar. No that sound you will hear is not a bomb, its just 19 000 raps fans boooooooooooooooooooooiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnngggg the crap out of Wince :clap:
 

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fruitcake said:
I have watcehd Raptors games and I know tha the has had many games inwhich he doesn't seem to be putting in his all. However, I think that the reason he is doing it is because of the fans and media critisizing him every chance they get, and not the other way around.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

As for the video, i stated this in the raps thread too, as basically this same thread exists there. My heart hurt watching that video :cry: :cry: that vince left a few years ago, that was a different ball player ppl
 
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