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I was a cub fan growing up, but rooted for both. I grew up going to both parks, and my family is a family divided, BUT, if you wanted a free trip to the park and a couple dogs, you didn't tell Uncle Ray "Sox suck."

The Cubs are pathetic and I've been done with them for years. I don't think it's right to jump bandwagons, so I wait. I support the players we need more of, but I refuse to spend even a dollar. AND Cubs fans would be surprised how many other Cub fans are like that. But, it's the only team in america where that doesn't matter.

Do the opinions of the hardcore Cubs fans matter? Which matters more? The opinion of someone who knows the starting lineup, or the opinion of people in Iowa that get on buses to keep Wrigley packed if Chicago fans don't like the maneure they are being fed? Does the opinion of the fan who brings a mit to the game matter? Or is the opinion of people who get sent there by "It's just lunch" on a blind date?

Sox care about their fans and it's baseball. Not some stupid yuppie party where you are reminded every so often that there is a game going on.
 

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Not every Cubs fan is how you described. And not every Sox fan is knowledgeable about the team either. My point was proven when I asked a Sox fan on the El last night a simple question. Who did the Sox play in the 1983 ALCS? ..... "umm the Angels?" WRONG. How about 1993? "It was the Yankees" WRONG again.

When you cut out all the Yuppie 'could care less' Cubs fans, and the bandwagon jumping Sox fans, I'd say the ratio of true fans is fairly close to 1:1.
 

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UMfan83 said:
When you cut out all the Yuppie 'could care less' Cubs fans, and the bandwagon jumping Sox fans, I'd say the ratio of true fans is fairly close to 1:1.
:clap:

I've been saying the same thing to people for years. Each team has a group of core FANS. actual fans, who know AT LEAST the starting lineup, and rotation/closer. And the Sox/Cubs have about the same number of real, true, loyal fans. I'd wager the sox have a few more, but I think that might have something to do with an awful lot of Cubs fan I know have completely given up on that franchise until the Trib sells it to someone who cares about winning. (One of my friends believes it to be an absolute joke that the Sox payroll is higher then the Cubs. He tells me he's done with the Cubs until they have a payroll that is right behind the Yankees and Red Sox, the only 2 teams making more money then the Cubs...)

Anyways, to break it down, there are:
1) The True Fans. They know the team, they love the team, it would take a lot to get them to give up.
...Then there are the bandwagoners/fair whethers/clueless tourists/etc.

Honestly, When I wear my "Cubs Suck" Gear its not aimed at any true fan.
It's aimed at everyone whos not a true fan... If the Cubs didnt have so many fair-whether fans in this city who couldn't tell me who the Cubs catcher is (ask people, its a stumper for a lot of self-proclaimed "fans") I wouldn't have any gear like that at all.

(and on a sidenote/rant: I'm actually pissed at how many people are "Sox Fans" all the sudden... they took all the good seats for this year. and you know what... they suck too. where were they last year in May? I know I was at the games....)
 

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remlover said:
Well i'll be going to the game on Tuesday, thankfully no rain is in the forecast. Also i'm getting replica WS Rings...Woohoo!
Nice! I'm going Tues (Ring Day) and Wed (Throphy Day)

Get thier early, it's only the first 20,000 fans I believe!
 

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UMfan83 said:
Not every Cubs fan is how you described. And not every Sox fan is knowledgeable about the team either. My point was proven when I asked a Sox fan on the El last night a simple question. Who did the Sox play in the 1983 ALCS? ..... "umm the Angels?" WRONG. How about 1993? "It was the Yankees" WRONG again.

When you cut out all the Yuppie 'could care less' Cubs fans, and the bandwagon jumping Sox fans, I'd say the ratio of true fans is fairly close to 1:1.
Huh??

Nowhere do I claim Sox fans are all knowledgeable. I said that the SOX care about their fans, not that all Sox fans care about the team.

And I know there are Cubs fans who are very serious. I get that. Most of them that I know have started to realize that the Cubs first priority may not be winning a World Series every year. BUT, the Cubs are one of VERY few teams, if not the ONLY team, who doesn't have to care what their hardcore fans think. They get enough money from tourists, partiers and people on dates/not hardcore fans, to not have to GIVE A bleep what their real fans think. Get it?

Most of the Cub fans I know, young and old, were ten times more into it ten years ago than they are now. Apathy has set in for the most part. It doesn't matter though, because it won't affect the teams bottom line. McPhail, Hendry, the Tribune board, what do you think they say in board meetings when they realize that the media is starting to come around and that the hardcore fans are ranting like never before on the radio. It goes something like this:

"This is what's going on. Our hardcore fan base is starting to get fed up."

"Andy, Andy, calm down. Bleep them. Look, they don't show up? We'll send more busses to Iowa. We'll spend a little more money marketing the 'experience' to urban professionals. In the end, they'll be faced with a choice. Get behind what the bleep we give the poor bleeps, or realize that not getting behind it means that they get left out of the party, and the show will go on without them."

"So you're saying that we can actually say something like 'we're not gonna resign Pierre because we love Pie, and Pie doesn't have enough power to play right field' and people will buy that?"

"Yes! They'll buy that! Why pay both of them. We're maxed out on profit as it is. It's overkill at that point. Look, we have stockholders. We're more like Microsoft than the New York Yankees Andy. That's what you have to tell yourself, ok. I know what you did in Minnesota was nice and sweet, and that's great. And I know you probably thought you could be EVEN BETTER here with the same principles and more money. But you need to get over that. Besides, I've been on this board for 30 years, and as long as the morons get fed a bone every 5-8 years, they'll line up at our maneure stand like we're serving filet mignon. Trust me."
 

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Jim Ian said:
:clap:

I've been saying the same thing to people for years. Each team has a group of core FANS. actual fans, who know AT LEAST the starting lineup, and rotation/closer. And the Sox/Cubs have about the same number of real, true, loyal fans. I'd wager the sox have a few more, but I think that might have something to do with an awful lot of Cubs fan I know have completely given up on that franchise until the Trib sells it to someone who cares about winning. (One of my friends believes it to be an absolute joke that the Sox payroll is higher then the Cubs. He tells me he's done with the Cubs until they have a payroll that is right behind the Yankees and Red Sox, the only 2 teams making more money then the Cubs...)
This is my point! It's not that the Sox have better fans. It's that the Cubs fans, even the very loyal ones, are starting to kind of have that eyeroll about them. Like "I'm still a Cubs fan, but come on. The trib? Yeah right." BUT unlike the Sox, the Cubs can get all the money they need from the perimeter fans. The perimeter Sox fans?? Hate to generalize, but they couldn't pump enough money into the equation. So the Sox HAVE to care about their core, and they have to freak out when their core isn't happy. The Cubs don't. To the Cubs, fans like those that have "completely given up" can go bleep themselves. "Andy, the fans need MONEY to get a ticket. They don't need to care! We'll send more busses to Iowa! There's nothing to do in Iowa! We've built it Andy! They'll come! Stop freaking out and have a cream soda."
 

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Oh I agree totally, I'm 75% on that bandwagon as well. I also think I misinterpreted your first post as well.

So, if that is the Cubs excuse, what was the White Sox for the last 88 years before this one? Yes they didn't have as much revenue stream coming in to support a payroll like the Cubs do, but in a large market city with television contracts the way they are nowadays, you'd think since at least the 80's they'd do better then 3 playoff appearences since 1983 and 3 series wins (all in 1 year). Yes they've been more competitive then the Cubs overall in terms of .500 seasons, but I don't think they've been "championship caliber" more then a couple of seasons.

And besides, if the Cubs didn't want to raise the payroll to win, why wouldn't the general management try to win 'moneyball style' (and I realize that term is thrown around for a wide range of things, im referring to making smart moves to win with a lower payroll). The question I am wondering is: Do the Cubs not WANT the team to win. If they win, they lose that essance of being the loveable losers.

I dunno, just some ideas. While I do think the Cubs aren't exactly aggressively attempting to build a winner, I don't think that they are trying to keep the team from winning a World Series.
 

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UMfan83 said:
Oh I agree totally, I'm 75% on that bandwagon as well. I also think I misinterpreted your first post as well.

So, if that is the Cubs excuse, what was the White Sox for the last 88 years before this one? Yes they didn't have as much revenue stream coming in to support a payroll like the Cubs do, but in a large market city with television contracts the way they are nowadays, you'd think since at least the 80's they'd do better then 3 playoff appearences since 1983 and 3 series wins (all in 1 year). Yes they've been more competitive then the Cubs overall in terms of .500 seasons, but I don't think they've been "championship caliber" more then a couple of seasons.

And besides, if the Cubs didn't want to raise the payroll to win, why wouldn't the general management try to win 'moneyball style' (and I realize that term is thrown around for a wide range of things, im referring to making smart moves to win with a lower payroll). The question I am wondering is: Do the Cubs not WANT the team to win. If they win, they lose that essance of being the loveable losers.

I dunno, just some ideas. While I do think the Cubs aren't exactly aggressively attempting to build a winner, I don't think that they are trying to keep the team from winning a World Series.
I think thats a great point. It's not that they are NOT trying to win it all.... But I don't think they really give a rat's behind about winning it all either.

Ownership knows if they go through the motions, they will sell-out consistantly, sell merch up the wazu and put TONS of money in their pockets. There just isn't any extra insentive to go out and get a Beckett or a Ryan or a Damon....
 

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UMfan83 said:
Oh I agree totally, I'm 75% on that bandwagon as well. I also think I misinterpreted your first post as well.

So, if that is the Cubs excuse, what was the White Sox for the last 88 years before this one? Yes they didn't have as much revenue stream coming in to support a payroll like the Cubs do, but in a large market city with television contracts the way they are nowadays, you'd think since at least the 80's they'd do better then 3 playoff appearences since 1983 and 3 series wins (all in 1 year). Yes they've been more competitive then the Cubs overall in terms of .500 seasons, but I don't think they've been "championship caliber" more then a couple of seasons.

And besides, if the Cubs didn't want to raise the payroll to win, why wouldn't the general management try to win 'moneyball style' (and I realize that term is thrown around for a wide range of things, im referring to making smart moves to win with a lower payroll). The question I am wondering is: Do the Cubs not WANT the team to win. If they win, they lose that essance of being the loveable losers.

I dunno, just some ideas. While I do think the Cubs aren't exactly aggressively attempting to build a winner, I don't think that they are trying to keep the team from winning a World Series.
First, I'd say that if you look at the low share of the Chicago market that the Sox have (and mind you, I'm no Sox fan), it's really tantamount to being like the Seattle Mariners. Second, I just want one ring. I'm not saying that the Sox have always been better, but they got there first, and if they can do it, we DAMN well should be doing it to. There is no excuse to be the third dog in the entire country market wise, have a NATIONAL network in WGN and be going on 98 years without a ring. No denying that the Sox had their heads planted for a long time too, but they did it and so did Boston. And that makes me even more irate.

I'm sick of being fed bleeping god bleep BS like "oh we aren't signing Pierre after this season because we love Pie so much and Pie can't play right or left cause he doesn't have the power." Really bleep hole? Ever heard of Willie McGee? Those Cardinals teams sure did suck with him in right. Basically, that translates to, "we don't want to pay more guys than necessary." AND if you look at the Cubs, they always get someone or bring someone up as the other guy is leaving. I guarantee you that Wood or Prior will be gone before Guzman finds his way permanently to the Cubs.
 
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