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i know this won't happen but tell me if it's fair.


Clips trade Elton Brand Andre Miller

Pacers trade JO Tinsley
 

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Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
i know this won't happen but tell me if it's fair.

Clips trade Elton Brand Andre Miller

Pacers trade JO Tinsley
Take a wild guess whether or not this trade is fair.
 

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jERMAINE o'nEAL IS far superior to Elton Brand. O'Neal got better numbers , is younger, plays on a better team, has improved more than any other player the past 2 years, and should average 20+ ppg, 11+ rpg, 2.5+ bpg next year. There is not 1 GM in the league who would take Elton "Overrated" Brand ahead of Jermaine O'Neal, I gurantee it. Now A Millers slightly better than Tinsley but since JO's better than E Brand i'd say the trade equals out pretty even. I wouldnt make the trade thoug, Elton and A Miller will always be just "stars" whereas Jermaine Oneal should become a bonafide superstar this upcoming season.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Uncle Jesse</b>!
jERMAINE o'nEAL IS far superior to Elton Brand. O'Neal got better numbers , is younger, plays on a better team, has improved more than any other player the past 2 years, and should average 20+ ppg, 11+ rpg, 2.5+ bpg next year. There is not 1 GM in the league who would take Elton "Overrated" Brand ahead of Jermaine O'Neal, I gurantee it. Now A Millers slightly better than Tinsley but since JO's better than E Brand i'd say the trade equals out pretty even. I wouldnt make the trade thoug, Elton and A Miller will always be just "stars" whereas Jermaine Oneal should become a bonafide superstar this upcoming season.
Ahh, the misguided ramblings of a completely biased fan. It's not like anyone is going to agree with this opinion, because it's obviously completely ridiculous, but I'll respond anyway.

Ridiculous Claim #1. Jermaine has better numbers.

Reality of the situation.
Points Per Game. O'Neal - 19, Brand - 18.2. Edge, JO, by .8

Rebounds Per Game. O'Neal - 10.5, Brand - 11.6. Edge, EB, by 1.1

Assists Per Game. O'Neal - 1.6, Brand - 2.4. Edge, EB, by .8

Steals Per Game. O'Neal - .6, Brand - 1.0. Edge, EB, by .4

Blocks Per Game. O'Neal - 2.3, Brand 2.0. Edge, JO by .3

FG%. O'Neal - 48%, Brand 53%. Edge, Brand, by 5%

FT% O'Neal - 69%, Brand - 74%. Edge, Brand, by 5%

So in reality, O'Neal does NOT put up better numbers than Brand. They are fairly equal. But the slight edge goes to Elton Brand.

And when Elton Brand was in the pathetic east, he put up 20/10 2 consecutive years. O'Neal has yet to do it once.

Claim #1 - Wrong!

Ridiculous Claim #2. Jermaine O'Neal is younger than Elton Brand.

Reality.

Elton Brand was born 1979.

Jermaine O'Neal was born in 1978.

Jermaine O'Neal is NOT younger than Elton Brand.

Claim #2 - Wrong!

Claim #3.

The Pacers are a better team.

Reality - I'll admit that this one is open to debate, based on last year. Last year, the Pacers finished a whopping 3 games in front of the Clippers. The difference of the situation - The Pacers played in the crap East, and the Clips played in the dominant West. Based on that, it's fair to say that they were about equal.

But this year, it's no contest. The addition of Andre Miller and 2 lottery picks compared to a mid first rounder who should've been a 2nd rounder.

The Clippers are the better team.

Claim #4

Andre Miller is only slightly better than Jamaal Tinsley.

Reality - You are a fool. Andre Miller is a bonafide star, surefire Top 5 PG, and just came off leading the league in assists. Jamaal Tinsley has some upside and will be a solid player, but he is nowhere near the level of Andre Miller. Not even close.

Your entire post was pure garbage. Obviously a Pacer fan who has no sense of reality.

As for the trade at hand, certainly not fair. Brand/O'Neal is just about equal. But Miller/Tinsley is a huge difference, and it makes it a bad trade for the Clipperrs.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Uncle Jesse</b>!
Now A Millers slightly better than Tinsley

I respect your passion for your team, but sometimes you have to look at reality,
and reality is Dre is MUCH better than Tinsley, therefore the Clipps would be robbed,
if this trade went down,

Aren't you the same guy that said, Duncan's stats is slighlty better than Shaq's therefore....
"HOW IS SHAQ CONSIDERED THE MOST DOMINANT, BIG MAN??? when Dominance is judged by Shaq's physical size not the stats??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

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RD

Wow, isnt that the pot calling the kettle black. Yes his opinions were very biased, but how were yours not? Are you not the mod for the clip show board? Thats right, you are. As far as you thinking the Clips will be better than the Pacers this year, I disagree. But only time will tell. Dre being better than Tinsley? True. But compare both of their rookie stats, Tinsley had a better rookie year. You need to slow down and think before you open your mouth. Comparing a rookie to a guy whos been in the L for awhile based on Tinsleys rookie stats compared to Dres stats last season is ludacris. But then again your probably one of the people who thinks Dre will get 15 assists a game as a clip. He will get less than he did last year. Simple as that. JO for Brand, thats a toss up. Im a Pacer fan and I dont even know who I would take. They are pretty even players. Tinsley or Dre, I would take Tinsley. Dre will get you farther right now, but Tinsley will be a moster in the L in about 3 years. The guy had 2 tripple double as a rookie. Dre had none. Anyways, just calling you out as a biased fan as well.
 

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DRE is better than Tinsley.
when a guy ges 11 apg in a ****ty team like the cavs, and put up these numbers facing the best pgs who are in the East, then you can only get better in the West.
Who's gonna face DRE in the West??? GP is almost gone, and that leaves us with only Marbury and Bibby and probably another I left out.

JO's got the advantage over Brand.
They're numbers are about the same, that makes Brand better cause he's facing the West. JO's only true competitor is ZO. But Brand has been making the same number for3 years, so I think we've seen his capacity and we'll be seeing it for a long time, but JO was stuck in the Blazers bench and has truly been playing in the league for 3 years, and he continues to impress. No one saw the limit of his potential yet, so that gives him a big edge over Brand.

For now, the trade seems in the Pacers' advantage, but in a few years it would balance out and become cooler to watch. I'd rather see DRE competing in the East and JO in the West.

BTW i'm not bias here, im a HEAT fan.
 

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Re: RD

Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
Wow, isnt that the pot calling the kettle black. Yes his opinions were very biased, but how were yours not? Are you not the mod for the clip show board? Thats right, you are. As far as you thinking the Clips will be better than the Pacers this year, I disagree. But only time will tell. Dre being better than Tinsley? True. But compare both of their rookie stats, Tinsley had a better rookie year. You need to slow down and think before you open your mouth. Comparing a rookie to a guy whos been in the L for awhile based on Tinsleys rookie stats compared to Dres stats last season is ludacris. But then again your probably one of the people who thinks Dre will get 15 assists a game as a clip. He will get less than he did last year. Simple as that. JO for Brand, thats a toss up. Im a Pacer fan and I dont even know who I would take. They are pretty even players. Tinsley or Dre, I would take Tinsley. Dre will get you farther right now, but Tinsley will be a moster in the L in about 3 years. The guy had 2 tripple double as a rookie. Dre had none. Anyways, just calling you out as a biased fan as well.
LoL, just because you are a fan of a team, does not make you biased.

Not everyone has a blatant biasness towards their team. There are people who can actually have some sense of reality.

Uncle Jesse, clearly has none of it.

I believe I have proven to have some sense of reality when it comes to rating the team I root for.

And please, tell me where the biasness is in my post? I used facts to support my claims, and then in the one part that was pure opinion, I again stated factual things to back my opinion up.

As for the Tinsley comparison - I am not the one who made the comparison. Uncle Jesse did. He is comparing the players. You should be directing your ludicrous comment towards Uncle Jesse, not me. I am not the one who made the comparison.

Andre Miller is FAR better than Jamaal Tinsley. He says he's only slightly better.

This has nothing to do with potential, or what may happen in the future.

He is comparing Tinsley and Miller now. And Miller is a star, Tinsley is just a young player who has shown to have some potential. Miller is better and has a substantially higher amount of trade value.

There is no bias in that. It's fact.
 

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You can all call me a biased fan here, but this trade is total garbage. I agree that J O'Neal vs. EB is a toss up, but Tinsley will never be better than andre miller. That is like saying Pau Gasol's numbers were better than Kobes's. EB averaged about 15 more ppg than JO in his rookie year, and now they are a toss up. Rookie stats mean nothing. Andre Miller is a top 5 pg in the league, and although Tinsley is good, he doesn't have as much potential to improve as some of you Pacer fans think. I think he will stay about where he is now, improving only slightly on everything. This trade is obsured.

And by the way, I think Andre will average about 9 apg.
 

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Re: RD

Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
Tinsley or Dre, I would take Tinsley. Dre will get you farther right now, but Tinsley will be a moster in the L in about 3 years. The guy had 2 tripple double as a rookie. Dre had none.
Now that is ridiculous. BJ covered it right before this, but I'm going to reiterate the point.

Who cares what happened during his rookie year?

Darius Miles had a better rookie year than Kobe Bryant.

Would you take Miles over Kobe?

I sure hope not.

BJ used an excellent example of Brand averaging 15 more a game as a rookie than O'Neal, and now they are pretty even.

Rookie stats do not mean anything when comparing to another player.

Jamaal Tinsley if he's extremely lucky will get some mention as a Top 10 PG someday. Andre Miller's already in the Top 5 and has lead the league in assists in only his 3rd season.
 

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Oh ok. Rookie stats mean nothing. Then what would you like to judge Jamal on then? His stats when he wasent a rookie? Oh wait, thats impossible. The fairest way to judge their stats is as rookies. You were probably talking smack about Dre when he was a rookie too because he wasent putting up veteran numbers. Face the facts, Tinsley is on par to be as good, if not better than dre. He has a 24 assists game as a rookie. I know that Dre sure as hell didnt. Is it completely fair to judge them on rookie stats? No. But its the best way to do it at this point. Only time will tell.
 

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How can you say he's on par to become as good Dre are you some kind of psychic. Do you know when he's going to become a superstar? The fact of the matter is Tinsley isn't nowhere near as good as Dre is right now. Maybe in a couple years he might be, but that depends on how hard he works. Although I like Tinsley and think he will be a top ten point guard, as of right now he has nothing on Dre.
 

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Do you guys not read? I said Tinsley will be just as good or better IN A FEW YEARS. I by no means disagree that Miller is alot better right now. As far as people saying Dres realy good because he had 10 assists a game on the Cavs, theres a reason he averaged so much. You get way more assists passing to guys who cant create their own shots. They all relied on Miller to give them the ball when they were open. If anything, a team like the Cavs is the perfect place for a guy to lead the league in assists. He wont get nearly as many as a Clipper. And no, before you say it Ice, I am not a mind reader. It simply a fact to anyone who knows anything about basketball that the more tallent a team puts around a point guard, the less assists he will get. To any of you not understanding this, wait until the season starts. In the game the US team just played against Germany, he had 7 assists. So that just backs my point. Anyways, I think you should all calm down abit. These are my opinions. Nothing else. You guys dont even take into consideration that trading Miller and Brand for Tinsley and JO would mean you would lose 2 expiring contracts for one. There are alot of different views on who will get resigned on the clips right now, so Im not even going to start. But neither Dre or Brand are 100% sure to resign. So I was taking that into consideration as well. Bottom line is, neither team would do this trade.
 

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First of all the Pacers are clearly better than the Clippers. Which team made the playoffs? Which team has fantastic defense? Which team is younger? Which team WILL STAY together because they have one of the best owners and GMs in the NBA? Which team played a tougher scedule last year? The answer to everyone of those questions is the Pacers. Yes they played a tougher schedule, everyone in the league knew the Clippers had the easiest first half schedule in the NBA with loads of home games and not many back to backs or 3 games in 4 night, Pacers led the NBA in back to backs and 3 games in 4 nights. Also, Pacers had a far better record againt the West than against the East, Pacers should have won 50 games last season but they let WAY too many double digit leads slip away. Pacers will win the East this year, their only competition will be NJ and NO.
Tinsley will be better than Miller real soon, maybe even this upcoming season.

A MILLERS ROOKIE STATS
RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
3.40 5.8 1.02 . 21 2.02 2.40 11.1

J TINSLEYS ROOKIE STATS
RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
3.70 8.1 1.73 .50 3.38 3.10 9.4

Tinsley +.3 rpg, +2.3 apg,70% more steals per game, more than doubled Millers bpg, we'll skip Turnovers, and foulds, Miller +1.7 ppg (on a garbage Cleveland team, so that doesnt say much)

Millers 2nd season stats werent that much better than his rookie stats and still were only about even to Tinsley rookie stats. Just face it, Tinsley WILL BE BETTER THAN ANDRE MILLER. I mena comes on, Tinsleys rookie stats were better despite "hitting the rookie wall" and "falling off" the second half of the season and despite playing way out of shape. Tinsley's dropped 4" off of his waist, and is in the best shape of his life, he will led the nBA in assists this year. Also, everyone pretyt much agrees Elton Brand has reached his full potential and hit his peak, Jermaine O'Nela on the otherhand has dramaticly improved each of the past 2 seasons and should do the same next year. Jermaines a real PF, 6'11" maybe 7', What's Elton? listed 6'8" more like 6'6" probaly? Elton Brand is no Charles Barkley. Elton will be a star but never a superstar, Jermaine ONeal is well on his way to superstardom. Just watch the World Basketball Championships this week, watch how Jermaine outplays his own teammate, Eltons to fat to keep up wit the slim Jermaine ONeal. Get Elton on the Sub-Way diet, he's got some big ol' titties. Well I've proven my points. I'm done for now. I'll check back later to see what excuses you bias Clipper fan...err band wagon jumpers is more like it, have to say.
 

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Well, before you guy go getting on me for that, thats deffinatley not my point of view. Tinsley being better than Miller, maybe. I hope so. But us having a harder year, no. We are in the east. And the Clips are in the West. Simple as that. Brand and JO? They're about the same. Brand isnt fat though man, people compare him to Karl Malone. JO, though I love the guy, is skinny as hell. I wouldnt mind him putting on some pounds. Brand can hold his own in the paint. JO has had an obvious problem with getting shoved around by heavier guys in the paint. Thats comming from me too Jessie. A Pacer fan. Clips are my second team though I guess.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Uncle Jesse</b>!
Get Elton on the Sub-Way diet, he's got some big ol' titties. Well I've proven my points. I'm done for now. I'll check back later to see what excuses you bias Clipper fan...err band wagon jumpers is more like it, have to say.
Uncle Jesse, you my friend are an idiot. You talk as if you are a 7 year old kid. Elton Brand has some big ol' titties? This sounds like a a person whose basketball opinions I would like to take seriously. And R-Star allready adressed this, but the Clippers had the harder scedule. We played in the west. Enough said. And about your team being younger, your three best players are Reggie Miller, JO, and Tinsley. Reggie is 37, JO is 21, and Tinsley is 24. Add that all up and you get 82 years. The Clippers 3 best players are Elton, LO, and Andre. Elton is 24, LO is 23, and Andre is 26. Comibe those ages and you get 73. Now which team is younger? Sure you have highschool busts such as Bender and Harrington, but we other young players who actually play well such as Q, Maggette, Ely, and Wilcox. Jesse you have no idea what you are talking about and this post was full of trash.
 

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Basketball Jesus

People calling Bender a bust is unfair since he hasent had the pt to develop. If he doesnt put up numbers this year then I will agree with you. As far as Harrington being a bust, he was the leading canidate in the L for the 6th man award before he went down with a torn acl. I see you have Q's picture as your avatar. Well I by no means consider Q a bust, and I've read your posts, you dont either. That being said Harrington was ahead of Q in the 6 man race before he went down. So thats just something to think about.
 

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Maybe calling Harington a bust was a bit drastic, but I was upset and trying to make a point. I agree that he could be a good player, but I also think that the time is running out for Bender. I was just trying to illistrate that the Clippers have more young talent than the Pacers. The Pacers are one of my favorite teams, but mainly because of Reggie. It will be intresting to see what the Pacers do without him.
 
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