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· Premium Member
604 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These are just my opinions:

He won 5 rings with the Lakers, featuring Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Green, etc. This was a great effort in itself, but which coach would not have won all those championships with that playing group. Anyway I want to focus on what has happened since that day.

His days with the Knicks, he had control over the guys that he wanted. Hard men, such as Oakley, Mason, Mcdaniel, Harper, Starks, etc. he came within one game of winning the 1994 championship against the Rockets. he implemented a beat em up game plan which did not work at the Knicks. Sure no-one else could beat the Bulls, but the team never seemed to improve.
He left the Knicks to join the Heat and implemented the same tough defensive game plan. the team made the 1996 eastern conference finals, but could not get over the Knicks in any playoffs since.

He never once seemed to change the teams direction, making them play that same style each year, for little result. What good were all those regular season trophies for having the best record when you lose in the first round of the playoffs each year. The straw should have been cut, when they got torched by the Hornets 3-0 in the 2001 playoffs. Not one player for the Heat showed up, in that series and where was Pat Riley???

He under utilised Jamal Mashburn and shackled his game up completely. He avaraged 15 and 17 points per game in his last few seasons, with 3 assists per game. for the Heat. When Mashburn got traded to the Hornets, he bumped his points up to 21 per game and also his assists to 6 per game. Riley, since that trade has craved a scoring small forward. I know that he has drafted Butler, but Mashburn could have been putting up 20/6/5, like he is doing for the Hornets currently.

When the trade for Mashburn and PJ Brown, for Eddie Jones and Mason went down, Riley said that he got the players that he wanted. Note that they also got Brian Grant that year. he got the players that he wanted, and they got smashed in the first round by the Hornets 3-0. i know that Mourning was injured that year, but this year, when he was back, they never even made the playoffs and had an even worse year!!!

I might be wrong here, but he always resisted the temptation to trade PJ Brown. Brown is a solid player, good defender, great rebounder, and he was offered a trade for Lamar Odom in the 1999 trading period. I am not sure if this trade was just speculation at the time, but it is a concern if he turned that trade down.

He got rid of Ricky Davis, for Chris Gatling, because he did not believe that Davis was mature enough. I thought that a coaches job, was to get the players to play for the coach and not to just give up on players so easily. Granted Davis is developing, but it seems just a waste of natural talent getting rid of him so easily, for a journeyman who has since been released and hardly played for the Heat anyway.

He did not get anything in return for Anthony mason, who came off an all-star season putting up 16 points and 9 boards a game.I know Mason has a reputation, but most teams would have wanted Mason, at 4.5 million per year, when he had such a solid all-star season. Why did he not try and do a sign and trade???

The trade for Mashburn and Brown, for Jones and Mason, made Miami worse and not better. Mashburn has scored more points than Jones, had better assist numbers and more rebounds. While Brown has been the glue on the Hornets. He is their low post defender, putting up, or averaging a double double a game. Mason, is not even with the team anymore leaving the Heat for the Bucks in free agency.

He traded for Brian Grant, and overpaid for him, in my opinion. Sure he is a solid rebounder and sometimes decent scorer, but he is injury prone, and had a shocking season this year. Grant is under the hammer to perform.

He also overpaid for Anthony Carter. he is a guy with no jumpshot, and will struggle to make it as a starter in the NBA. that is why he was forced to sign Rod Strickland this year. he is probably trying to get McInnis, or Best to cover his mistake in signing Carter to that contract.

I believe that he wants to change his game plan and develop a run and gun offence. Sure they will defend hard, with Jones and Mourning, but they need to score. the reason why they never won against the Knicks is that the only true scorers were Mourning and Hardaway. As I said Mashburn never developed his offensive game with the Heat. he was never allowed to create with the Heat that he can with the Hornets. In most peoples opinion, Mashburn has been a superstar since leaving the Heat. Sure he was injured this year, but check out his stats for the Hornets, the past two years and the playoffs. if Butler can turn out as good as Mashburn, than that will be a great pickup for the Heat.Mashburn and Brown have made the Hornets better, Jones has made the Heat worse.

My opinion, is Riley has had his chance. The Heat should go with a newer fresher face. A guy who can come in with new ideas and not have anything to prove. Riley has had 7 years with the Heat to do something, and they have not even been to the NBA finals. He never had enough scorers in the final minutes of the game against the Knicks. That is why the Knicks always won those close games, year in and year out. The Knicks always had Ewing, Houston, Sprewell, etc, while no-one came through for the Heat. They need to get a younger coach with a greater desire and attitude.

I am not giving the Heat a spray, but I just gave my thoughts on what moves Pat Riley has done. In my opinion, Pat it is time to pack your bags and.....

· Beer Drinker!!!
8,241 Posts
He won 5 rings with the Lakers,but which coach would not have won all those championships with that group?
I guess that means Phil Jackson ISNT that great of a coach either,cuz he had M.J./Pippen and Shaq/Kobe?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

He came within one game of winning the 1994 championship against the Rockets.He implemented a beat em up game plan which did not work for the Knicks!
Ask any Knick fan and they will tell u that Starks,and Starks alone,LOST that game!:devil:

The straw should have been cut,when they got torched by the Hornets 3-0 in the 2001 playoffs.
We lost that series cuz Hardaway had BAD knees and ankles!In other words A.C. COULDNT handle B-Davis!If Tim would have been healthy we would have WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He under utilised Jamal Mashburn,and shackled his game up completely.
Mash is a HEARTLESS BUM,we would have beaten the Knicks in 2000,but he passed up the final shot to Spoon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Riley said he got all the player he wanted aka Jones/B.G./MA$E,and they got smashed by the Hornets 3-0
Zo went down with a kidney disorder,he was still a top 5 baller in the league at that time,Tim also had bad knees and and bad ankle sprain!In other words our franchise player was 60% at best,and our starting PG was on the IR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Odom was offered for P.J.?
Odom was NEVER offered for Brown!The Grizz offered the 2nd overall pick for Brown but backed out at the last minute!

He did not get anything in return for MA$E,who came off an ALL-STAR season!
2 words,LUXURY TAX!!!!!!!!!!!!

He also overpaid for A.C.!

Do u know that the Raps were gonna trade us T-Mac for A.C.?!?!
Riles promised to take care of A.C.,cuz he stayed with us when other teams we're offering more!

Riles is one of the TOP 3 coaches of ALL-TIME,do ur homework next time!:yes:

· Registered
95 Posts
Pat Riley is proven to be a great coach, but a lousy GM. The only problem is that he is going to step down as coach and go to be GM only.

In defense, he hasn't had the championship tools in NY or Miami. He came into situations where they had winning programs. It is hard to make them better, as you have lousy draft choices.

He was lucky to make the conference finals. If Charlie Ward decides not to wrestle, the Knicks, with their best team of the Ewing era, could have given the Bulls a run for their money.

· Registered
8,235 Posts
I mostly agree with Dr. J's post.

Riley is a great coach and has proven that. He is not a good gm and doesn't do a good job of evaluating talent.

· Heat fan since 2001
7,139 Posts
what do u guys think?
overall he did a good job by signing Odom and drafting Wade at #5 pick.

Odom later became one of the 3 players to be traded for Shaq.

· Registered
1,310 Posts
come on dude, weren't you the one that bumped the 3 yr old post the other day as well?

my only comment on this thread is i loved seeing the hornets beat the heat that year. miami was predicted by most to come out of the east...they've got all these guys who wanted out of charlotte before coming to miami (ej, mason, zo) the "big" free agent signing of grant, majerle and hardaway...and got beat by miami castoffs who didn't even have a home crowd to watch them. and then took the bucks to game 7 in the second round. great story and one of the greatest eastern conference playoffs ever that year :clap:

oh but on the subject...lakers were backed into a corner and had to trade shaq, and wade was a guy everyone knew would be solid right out of college, i don't consider either of those moves a coup
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