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Discussion Starter #1
For some reason, it has become all the rage to wildly overrate Marion while wildly disrespect Peja when general users are rating Sf's. Whenever somebody makes a 'top 5' list, you will usually see Marion at around 3 and you'd be hard pressed to see Peja on any top 5's whatsoever. How quickly that change has come...

But people are fickle, after the 2001 playoffs round 1 Kings vrs Suns, when Peja summarily busted Marions a$$, people were all for acknowledging that Peja was the better SF. Marion outplayed Peja in Game 1 of that series in what was both their breakout season's and first playoff tastes, but in game 2, 3, and 4, Peja scored 20+ while Marion scored no more than 14, including a series clinching 37/6 to Marion's 14/8 in Game 4.

It wasn't really until Peja's injured playoff stint this year when the disrespect came...

2001-2002 head to head

Game 1 114-88 Suns
Peja 29 2-8 0-1 2-2 0 2 2 2 2 1 2 1 6
Shawn38 10-20 0-0 1-2 6 7 13 2 1 3 1 2 21
Game 2 133-101 Kings
Peja 40 11-23 3-7 1-2 2 6 8 3 0 0 0 0 26
Shawn32 7-17 1-1 5-5 2 3 5 3 2 3 2 0 20
Game 3 118-112 Kings
Peja 40 10-16 3-5 2-2 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 0 25
Shawn43 6-19 0-0 2-5 4 4 8 4 4 0 2 1 14
Game 4 103-100 Kings
Peja 46 7-20 1-3 10-12 2 6 8 5 0 2 1 0 25
Shawn45 9-20 0-1 0-0 1 5 6 4 4 2 0 0 18

So as we can see, in every game except for game 1 when the entire team didn't show up and Peja had his 2nd worst outing of the year, most people would rather have Peja in that equation.

Shawn is the best rebounding SF in the game and a better rebounder than Peja, for that he should be given a lot of credit for.

Defensively, they are around the same. The stereotype that Peja doesn't play defense is one of the biggest myths currently floating around the fans of the association, he is a good defender (if you want to argue that, bring it, we will compare box scores). Marion is a lot quicker on the perimiter, while Peja is stronger.

Their offenses however, are not close. Marion is strictly a mid-range jumpshooter and open-court player without handles or any sense of individual offensive game. Whereas Peja could be 'the man', if he was ever on a team where he was the number 1 option. The only reason he averages only a shade over 21 to Marions shade over 19 is because he has the best teammates in the league offensively, if he were on that Suns team instead of Marion he would have averaged anywhere from 23 to 26 ppg a game last year (just as he averaged 23.7 a game without C-Webb this year).
 

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I agree that Peja is underated and should be considered a better Sf because he has accomplished more so far in his career then Marion, but you are basing a lot of your argument on a single series of games. If you compared their complete season stats from the past season I think an argument could be made that Marion had the better year.
 

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Another argument could be made that he favors Peja over Marion because he is a Kings fan.
 

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Marion DOES have a 3-point shot. It has been improving, and he can dunk waaay better than Peja. He's also, like you said, a much better rebounder. I'd personally take Marion over Peja right now because he's developed a much better shot, and it's only going to get better. However, I still agree that right now, and probably longer as Peja will also improve, Peja is the better offensive player. I'd still take Marion over him though, he's more of a complete package.
 

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Yes, I also noticed that this season Marion had developed a consistent jumper and that he now has 3 point range on his shot(at least he appeared to in all of the games I saw him play in). I would also rather have Marion on my team than Peja because he is a very quick defender that can block shots and get steals, is a tremendous rebounder, and is a consistent scorer who still has the potential to become better on the offensive end. I agree that he is more of a complete package than Peja.
 

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Originally posted by Budweiser_Boy
Marion DOES have a 3-point shot. It has been improving, and he can dunk waaay better than Peja. He's also, like you said, a much better rebounder. I'd personally take Marion over Peja right now because he's developed a much better shot, and it's only going to get better. However, I still agree that right now, and probably longer as Peja will also improve, Peja is the better offensive player. I'd still take Marion over him though, he's more of a complete package.
I agree-Peja is underrated....but I would still take Marion
 

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The Matrix is AWESOME,but Peja is even BETTER!If Peja would have been 100% in the WCF,the Kings would have one a CHAMPIONSHIP!

The Matrix = Great rebounder for his size,and AWESOME dunker!

Peja = VERY solid all-around baller,not to mention the BEST 3pt shooter in the league!
 

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marion is tight

I like Peja and Marion (my 2 favorite teams) and I watch a lot of each and I would have to take Marion it seemed at the end of the year he was automatic from 15 feet in and imprving on 3's he is now in my mind a good 3-point shooter. Also he has more upside is more athletic and is funner to watch. Now why would you take peja again?
 

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IMO Besides on this board, Marion is underrated also by non super fans like us. More people know more about Peja than they do Marion. On this board, more people know about Marion and his awesome skills. Your right Peja is a good SF, but I would take KG, T-Mac, Vince, Marion over him any day. Peja has a better offensive game, but Marion has a better defensive game and is very consistent on the offensive end. He averaged like 20 ppg and 10 rebounds a game. So, I say its marion over peja.
 

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Don't forget that Peja's offensive stats were very much helped by the wide open style that the Kings play. Marion is a much more complete player than Peja. The only thing Peja can do better is shoot.
 

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Marion is an excellent role player. Peja is a franchise player.

Keep in mind Peja is still trying to find his role within the Kings' offense. When Peja was the #1 offensive option, he killed the opponents. He played his best ball when C-Web was out. He didn't just carried the Kings, he carried them to the best record in the NBA. That's text book definition of a franchise player.

The Matrix is a good supporting player who put up impressive numbers. But you don't build your team around him. You can build your team arond a big-time scorer like Peja, like the Pacers did with Reggie Miller.

And don't judge strictly on numbers. Cuz some fool will compare Kobe to the Marix and say,

"Wow, Marion has more rebounds, more steals, more block shots, less TO, and shoots higher 3-pt % than Kobe. Marion is better than Kobe!!!"

Would Shaq prefer Matrix to Kobe? Would C-Web rather pass the rock to Marion or Peja?

Peja is not perfect, nor has he reached his full potential. Right now, he seems too content on being just a scorer when he can be much, mcuh more. But Peja outplayed Marion when they met in the playoffs, that wasn't an accident.
 

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I like them both. Peja has that unlimited range and can take a lot of small forwards off the dribble. Now Marion can do a little of everything (rebound,defend, and has developed a nice shot). When was the last time a small forward almost averaged a double double. If I had to choose one.........I couldn't pick though. But, I really like the fact that Marion can defend and rebound...........You also have to remember that they are different players, Peja shoots jumpers 80% of the time...........Marion is getting tip ins, shooting the occasional jumper when open....... the rest of the time he is crashing the boards and playing tough d (straight up and weak side)........Plus, look at the ball hoggin' *** stubborn pg he has to play with.

Rac
 

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One nice thing about Marion is the quick release on his shot. He might not be one of the league's best long-range shooters, but from 15 feet he is automatic. And he can get it off virtually whenever he wants. I saw him la couple of years ago against the Wolves, when he had something like 38 points. He was on fire, and absolutely unstoppable with his mid-range game. Just a taste of the future from Marion, who I think will turn out to be the best player from the class of '99.
 

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KingsMan, I've noticed in another thread that you have a HUMONGOUS bias for Peja. HUGE.

Peja may be under-rated, but so is Marion. BIG TIME. When does Shawn Marion ever get talked about? His stats go virtually un-noticed, while everyone in the league LOVES Peja. Don't deny it, and stop thinking everyone's against Peja, cause they're not. Deal with it, and Shawn Marion is STILL better.
 

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Originally posted by bebop
Marion is an excellent role player. Peja is a franchise player.
There is no denying that Peja is an excellent, excellent shooter and overall offensive player, but how can you make this statement. Why does everyone always think scoring is the most important thing. Everyone needs to get this straight. DEFENSE wins championships. Look at the Lakers, they excell at defense, hence three straight titles. Who won before them? The Spurs. Obviously a very defensively orientated team. Before the Spurs we had the Bulls. The Bulls probably had the best perimeter defense of any team, ever. Defense wins championships, and Marion is an excellent defender, excellent rebounder, and good scorer. Peja is an average defender, average rebounder, and excellent scorer. I'll take Matrix any day of the week.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Originally posted by Budweiser_Boy
KingsMan, I've noticed in another thread that you have a HUMONGOUS bias for Peja. HUGE.

Peja may be under-rated, but so is Marion. BIG TIME. When does Shawn Marion ever get talked about? His stats go virtually un-noticed, while everyone in the league LOVES Peja. Don't deny it, and stop thinking everyone's against Peja, cause they're not. Deal with it, and Shawn Marion is STILL better.


If we had a top 50 list on here, and everyone put down their top 50 players, Marion would probably be in the late teens early 20's, Peja would probably be in the late 30's and early 40's. Peja is the most disrespected player putting up over 21 ppg in the game. I don't know why you think Marion is underrated, everywhere I go on all of these websites including espn insider and foxsports they think Marion is worth the max when they are listing current and future free agents, and the fans are goo-goo over him. Infact whenever I see an underrated list I see Marion and Dre Miller always there, how can they be underrated if everyone thinks their underrated?
 

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Marion is not worth the MAX. I don't believe so. However, Peja gets a LOT more coverage than Marion. He is loved by all the networks, and you can't say that's not true. How are you so sure that Marion would be in the 20's and Peja ranked lower than that? You don't know. And even if he IS, that's all about talent, not if they like him more or less. Marion is a better player. He averages almost the same points, and a lot more rebounds, plus he's more athletic and his shot is continually getting better. Not to mention he's a much better defender and dunker.

I thought that's what this thread is about. Not who's more under-rated, or who's more under-appreciated. And because you brought it up, Peja's not under-appreciated. He's not the one who got snubbed of the all star game, Marion is. He's a player coaches from around the league picked to be an all star, not Marion. I think Peja's a great player and an All Star caliber player, but simply put - in my opinion Shawn Marion is the better player.
 

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i agree shawn marion is the better player, and yes he will be a superstar in this league
 

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Originally posted by tenkev


There is no denying that Peja is an excellent, excellent shooter and overall offensive player, but how can you make this statement. Why does everyone always think scoring is the most important thing. Everyone needs to get this straight. DEFENSE wins championships. Look at the Lakers, they excell at defense, hence three straight titles. Who won before them? The Spurs. Obviously a very defensively orientated team. Before the Spurs we had the Bulls. The Bulls probably had the best perimeter defense of any team, ever. Defense wins championships, and Marion is an excellent defender, excellent rebounder, and good scorer. Peja is an average defender, average rebounder, and excellent scorer. I'll take Matrix any day of the week.
Hmmm… you want to know why everyone thinks scoring is the most important thing?

Duh! Because it is.

Would you build a team around Vince Carter or Dennis Rodman??

Peja is an average defender? What, did you missed two years of Kings basketball? Peja was an average defender when he was a rookie. But he’s been defending very well. I seriously doubt Marion could hold Dirk to 39% from the field like Stojakovic did. Remember in that Dallas series, after Peja was injured and couldn’t play the last game, Notwizki went off with 32 pts and over 50% from the field. Hmmm… I wonder why Dirk only shot 39% against an “average” defender like Peja.

True, Marion is a better rebounder than Peja. In fact for rebounding, no SF can touch Marion. But Peja is still the MAN.

Peja is a franchise guy. If he plays for any of the upper-mid to lower NBA barrel, he’d be the guy to build a team around. Heck I can name a few shooters who shot worse from the field than Peja and they’re the “MAN” for their team. This is not knocking the other guys, but Peja is that good.

Somehow, I have a hard time imagining any GM patting Marion on the should and say, “He is our franchise!” Look at Phoenix, they have Matrix, they didn’t make the playoff. Look at Sac, they didn’t have Webber, they ran to the best record in the NBA.

Notice the difference between a franchise and a role player?
 

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In response to bebop's post

ROLE PLAYER?!?!?! Are you kidding? Shawn Marion is no role player. Notice how Peja's supporting cast was much better than Marion's? Notice how the Suns traded away the best point in the game for Stephon Marbury? How the Suns traded away Cliff Robinson for John Wallace? How the Suns have no center?

The Suns' lineup:
PG: Stephon Marbury - a shoot first point guard
SG: Joe Johnson/Penny Hardaway - one's washed up and the other was a rookie
<b>SF: Shawn Marion</b>
PF: Charles Outlaw - a hustle player who averaged a whopping 4.7 points, 4.6 boards with the Suns
C: Jake Tsakalidis/Jake Voshkul - 'nuff said

The Kings' lineup:
PG: Mike Bibby - great clutch player, top 10 PG
SG: Doug Christie - a solid defender
<b>SF: Peja Stojakovic</b>
PF: Chris Webber - all star PF, top 3 PF in the West
C: Vlade Divac - definately an upgrade over the Suns' center position.

Also, the Kings had Bobby Jackson and Scot Pollard off the bench. The Suns had Tom Gugliotta.

Don't bring the playoffs into the argument. The Suns would be the same, if not WORSE with Peja instead of Marion. The Suns need rebounding because of their weak front court, and Shawn provides it. Don't tell me Peja would average 10 rebounds on the Suns. :rolleyes:

And by the way, if I had to choose between Peja and Shawn to build a team around, I'd take Marion, because I'd need a young all around player to start with. Not that Peja's old, but I think 19/10/2 with 1.84 steals and 1.06 blocks on 47% shooting (Marion's stats) is better than 21/5/2.5 with 1.14 steals and .20 blocks on 48% shooting. just my crazy opinion though. :rolleyes: :)
 
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