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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It seems like in many of the threads people refer to Chandler as having very marginal offensive potential. I think this claim is utterly ridiculous. I'll offer some reasons why he gets this unfair reputation.

1. He is pigeonholed as a defensive player.
Yes we all know he has potential to be a truly outstanding defender, but that does not preclude him from owning an offensive game.

2. He is always mentioned in the same breath as Curry.
Curry has greater offensive potential, and Chandler has better defensive potential so when the two are compared Curry garners the "offensive" label and Chandler the "defensive" label. Consequently, people assume they are for some reason lacking in the other area. Remember, this is just a relative comparison and the two are actually both advanced both offensively and defensively for 19 year olds.

3. He hasn't flashed refined offensive skills in the games yet.
True, he hasn't shown great post moves or that long range jumper yet, but it's not like he doesn't have the ability. Remember we've only seen him for one NBA season and he was only 18! He has lacked the confidence to assert himself as an offensive threat, but that will come with time. Then the post moves and jumper will come out of the closet.

4. He didn't score well at the RMR.
Sorry, but I'm sick of hearing people dog him for not living up to expectations in Summer League. It's SUMMER LEAGUE! I know it's a slow summer, but find a more legitimate basis for criticism than summer ball. If summer ball meant anything Deshawn Stevenson and Shammond Williams would be all-stars.

Once Chandler matures, I think you'll see a premier offensive force in the league. He should be good for 18-22 ppg during his prime. Remember that there are very few players in the league with his size and athleticism. Any 7'2 guy with any shred of athletic ability should be good for at least 15 ppg. Hell, Dikembe has averaged 12 ppg in his career with only a shred of the coordination and athleticism that Tyson exhibits. He gets compared most often to KG and Rasheed and I don't think those are very far off. He has the size of KG, but his output will more likely resemble Rasheed's in a few years.
 

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CBF - I think you have some valid points, but as you yourself pointed out, he needs to begin showing them.

I am fortunate enough to live in So. Cal. and have watched some of his games in High School, as well as high Summer games last year and last season.

Tyson does have an outside game. Unfortunately, he has no confidence in my opinion. Additionally, I think he was very much trying for the spectacular plays. Wether it was a blocked shot or a alley oop, he wanted it to be spectacular.

As many of us pointed out, it's great to block the shot, but even better to block it to one of your own players to ignite the break. It's great to dunk, but 2 points is 2 points.

I am hopeful that Chandler will show more of an offensive game this year. I believe he has the dedication and work ethic to get better. I also think that the bond with Eddie and Jay will help this too.



Go Bulls!
 

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Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
CBF - I think you have some valid points, but as you yourself pointed out, he needs to begin showing them.

I am fortunate enough to live in So. Cal. and have watched some of his games in High School, as well as high Summer games last year and last season.

Tyson does have an outside game. Unfortunately, he has no confidence in my opinion. Additionally, I think he was very much trying for the spectacular plays. Wether it was a blocked shot or a alley oop, he wanted it to be spectacular.

As many of us pointed out, it's great to block the shot, but even better to block it to one of your own players to ignite the break. It's great to dunk, but 2 points is 2 points.

I am hopeful that Chandler will show more of an offensive game this year. I believe he has the dedication and work ethic to get better. I also think that the bond with Eddie and Jay will help this too.



Go Bulls!

I agree with this, as I too have seen Chandler play numerous times, even before HS. I think something that he did during HS games was shy away from the ouside a lot as it was far easier to just dunk on people. I did see him flash a nice 15-18 foot jumper and I saw a pretty good face-up game as well. In the NBA, I think BC was trying to keep him away from the outside and working on earning his points down low. He wanted to prevent Tyson from turning out like the other HSer, Kwame Brown, who took a lot of jumpers and only shot 39%. Hopefully, we will see his offensive game come out more this year. One warning, he has no post moves.
 

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Good thoughts.

Your right. Summer means nothing. As for offense, i remember in the summer game we saw, he hit a nice shot from the left side of the hoop about 20 feet out.

Chandler is still young. He has many years for his game to evolve. Its all up to him.
 

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ChiBullsFan,

Your points are valid for Chandler's O. They're also valid for Curry's D, which most folks rate as well below average.

The thing is, Chandler's limited offensive game and Curry's limited defensive game is what we've seen. Believing that Chandler has great offensive prowess is an act of faith, since it can't be concluded from actual observation.

I share your frustration with posters who feel compelled to indelibly label either kid as being "all this and no that." However, I can't blame any fan from having more doubts about Chandler's offensive potential than Curry's, or having more doubts about Curry's defensive abilities than Chandler's. They're just voicing what they've seen.

Let's face it, both players are works in progress.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
On Curry's Defense:
Curry is terribly underrated on defense. Why does everyone assume that just because he was clueless on the defensive end in Year 1 that he will be a poor defender for his career? Makes no sense. You think Shaq would've been a good defender in the NBA when he was 18? No chance. But now he's considered a very good defender because he's big, tough, can block some shots and rebounds. It would be stupid to think EC won't be able to do all these things once he matures. Experience and maturity means a lot in this league, and Curry just doesn't have it yet. YET.

On Tyson's Offense:
He has nice touch. He's athletic. He has good hands. He can finish. His post game will develop. Oh yeah, he's also a 7'2 PF! Once again, he's young and he lacks the confidence and assertiveness right now to be a premier scorer, but that will come in time. He has all the physical tools and the work ethic to become a great scorer. And as an 18 year old, he averaged like 9 ppg in the last few months of the season. Those are good offensive numbers considering his relative immaturity. So why would you doubt his improvement? It just doesn't make sense.
 

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I love Chandler's game, and I do think that once he fixes his shot mechanics he'll be a decent perimeter shooter. I also think that without any post game to speak of he probably won't be in the top 10 in scoring. Like I said in the other Chandler thread, He could develope a Kareem-style skyhook, but that's a really tough shot to learn. I also think that Eddy Curry's got more potential defensively than Chandler has offensively. He's one of 3 centers in this league who even come close to Shaq in terms of size, strength, mobility and athleticism (the other two are Olowokandi and Diop), and IMO he's got more offensive potential than either of those two. I think he'll one day be an excellent interior defender/shotblocker, only he'll always be overshadowed by Chandler. Chandler's got the size, length, athleticism, timing and ability to cover ground quickly to become an interior defensive force such as this game hasn't seen since Wilt or Russell. Just his presence on the floor will completely change the opposition's game plan. Plus, everythinng I've heard about him leads me to believe that he's got the desire and intensity to make himself better and energize his team. I think he'll be an all-star one day, but more importantly I think he'll be a winner, and one of this teams' leaders and driving forces.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
On Curry's Defense:
Curry is terribly underrated on defense. Why does everyone assume that just because he was clueless on the defensive end in Year 1 that he will be a poor defender for his career? Makes no sense. You think Shaq would've been a good defender in the NBA when he was 18? No chance. But now he's considered a very good defender because he's big, tough, can block some shots and rebounds. It would be stupid to think EC won't be able to do all these things once he matures. Experience and maturity means a lot in this league, and Curry just doesn't have it yet. YET.

On Tyson's Offense:
He has nice touch. He's athletic. He has good hands. He can finish. His post game will develop. Oh yeah, he's also a 7'2 PF! Once again, he's young and he lacks the confidence and assertiveness right now to be a premier scorer, but that will come in time. He has all the physical tools and the work ethic to become a great scorer. And as an 18 year old, he averaged like 9 ppg in the last few months of the season. Those are good offensive numbers considering his relative immaturity. So why would you doubt his improvement? It just doesn't make sense.
I do not agree that Chandler has good hands. One of my main worries with him is the number of passes he fumbles. His shot is quite nice though, and once he gets stronger, his finishing will be much improved. I agree with you in projecting him as a Rasheed Wallace type, high post J shooting, running and finishing PF. I don't think he has the small forward offensive game of Garnett, nor a back to the basket, E Brand type scorer.

18 points per game, 12 boards, defensive player of the year candidate -- that is what kind of player Chandler could turnout to be IMO.
 

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JB -

Yes, I live in Sunny So. Cal., Huntington Beach to be exact and I love the Bulls, Bears, Blackhawks, Sox and Cubs.......(I know, you can't love the Sox and the CUbs, but two grandpa's two different teams...what can I say)

I was born in Chicago and lived there till I was 7. Most of my family still lives there. I fly home once a year to catch either a Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks, Cubs game.

This year for my Father's 56th Birthday I flew him, my borther and sister to Chicago with me, went straight to Wrigley and caught an afternoon game.

Two years ago, we did the same thing during basketball season and caught a Bulls game, then two nites later, the Blackhawks.


Living out here is tough, though having WGN and League Pass makes it tolerable.


Go Chicago Teams!
 

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He is only 19 years old. I can certainly understand why his game is currently limited. He was towering over everyone in high school and only needed to dunk or lay it over opposing children. He is in there with mature, strong, huge men with loads of experience. He needs to work on his game and his confidence. He also needs to earn the respect of the refs.

I do think at times he plays the game for Sportscenter highlights instead of what is best for the team. That is something he will mature out of.

I don't see the guy as a future 20 pt per game guy, but I can see him averaging 15-17 a game with good rebounding numbers. He will have a great opportunity to become the league's best shot blocker.

His main concern is putting on muscle. Those toothpick legs and body will get snapped in half. I have concern about his frail body avoiding injury (Marcus Camby type).
 

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i dont find camby and chandler to be the same physically at all

at the same age(19) TC has 30 pounds on him at least

it took awhile for camby to become 225 as he was on draft day way back when and at that point he was 2 years older than TC is now and if youlook at them Tc is much broader at the shoulders and while there isn't much meat there the potential for bulk is much greater than camby has

and as far as TC's offense i find it to be in need of refinement, once he knows where to be and when to be there he will do just fine as he basicaly a weakside offensive player at this point in his career

he can hit a j and that should get more consistent and maybe his hands will get better (they weren't very good last year) its possible he was rushing to get his shot off and it caused some miscues ...thats the hope anyway
 

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The biggest barrier I see for Chandler becoming an offensive force is Eddy Curry,,,,

I just don't see him getting enough touches inside to develop the post game he needs to become a 20+ ppg guy.

Clearly Eddy will become the no1 post option and I just cant remember a team that had 2 inside scorers consistently averaging 20 a game?

Robinson was a 20ppg guy before TD arrived, then he became a 15ppg player who dominated on the boards and on D.

I think that in a few years the Bulls offense will revolve around Eddy pounding the ball inside with Jay and Rose shooting from the outside.

I just don't see Chandler getting enough touches to put up big offensive stats.

Remember a players stats have just as much to do with their role on the team, as they do with a players over-all talent.
 

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95-96 Rockets were pretty close with Hakeem and Barkely. Hakeem averaged about 23 a game and Barkley clocked in at 19.2 ppg.
 

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Defiantly a good example BCH,

However Barkley's offensive versatility allowed him to switch to a more perimeter oriented role.

I just don't see TC developing that kind of perimeter game,,,

Remember he runs into the same problem on the outside as he has down low,,,,

Rose, Jay Will, and Crawford are all better perimeter options....
 

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Originally posted by <b>Potatoe</b>!
Defiantly a good example BCH,

However Barkley's offensive versatility allowed him to switch to a more perimeter oriented role.

I just don't see TC developing that kind of perimeter game,,,

Remember he runs into the same problem on the outside as he has down low,,,,

Rose, Jay Will, and Crawford are all better perimeter options....
I agree but wanted to point out it takes two great players to even come close, and even then the rest of the team was mediocre at best.

Chandler will be limited to put backs mostly in the Bulls offense. Last minute shots will be on the perimeter and Curry will alwys be the favored go to guy in the post no matter what Tyson does.
 

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absolutely -- Curry is, and will very likely BE the primary post threat on this Bulls team, followed by Fizer, not Chandler.


there is plenty of other offense to go around to boot -- Rose, Marshall, Williams, Crawford, even Hassell are all most likely going to get shots (within the structure of the offense) before Chandler will

if Chandler scores 12-14 pts/game - even late into his career - I will think that it's great! IF... and this is a big IF

If Curry is averaging 22-25 pts/game, and we have another 17-20ppg guy (like Rose or Williams) AND

if, Chandler is also getting 10+ rpg, around 2 blocked shots/game, and an uncountable number of intimidations or altering of shots :D

Chandler doesn't need to become (nor do I expect him to become) and offensive powerhouse... but it would be nice if he had a reliable jump shot out 15 ft, and one or two discernable post-type moves (say a turn around J, or a baby hook) that he could use when he does get the ball in the structure of the offense.

he'll still get most of his points on put backs and fast breaks, and I'll be happy with that if i can get it.
 

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If Chandler reveals/develops the phantom outside touch that some of you speak of, then he will find lots of opportunities to score. By the time he matures into his true playing style, Jalen Rose will be slowing down a little, leaving the bulk of the offense to Jay and Curry. If Jay (and Crawford or whatever other guard/swingmen they have) and Curry can keep the rest of the defense honest, Chandler should cause huge matchup problems for one-on-one defenders with his quickness and height. His strength will fail against the Webbers and Ben Wallaces around the league, but his agility will allow him to play a finesse post game more than a power one.

I think that his body size probably leans towards his success offensively lying in the jump shot. If he starts his shot high, like Rasheed Wallace, and he puts his legs into it, you'll never see Tyson Chandler get blocked (unless it comes from the blind side or behind). The guy should be able to shoot over ANYONE...

and THAT is just as valuable, if not more valuable, than a strong post game or a quick penetration/pull-up game or even the killer outside shots. Chandler will generally be the tallest guy on the court, and will be mostly be guarded by players four or more inches shorter than him. That kind of advantage, if he develops a consistent offensive touch, will NOT be ignored by the coaching staff.

As for his CURRENT offensive prowess, well.. 9 ppg in 20 mpg for an 18-year-old rookie doesn't sound too bad to me either. If he gets that all on put-backs and alley-oop dunks, then there's no reason he can't score more just doing the same thing in increased minutes.

I think Chandler's most important offensive contribution will be his offensive rebounding. He looks like he might end up being a very strong offensive glass crasher, especially if he continues to be the fourth or fifth offensive option. Whether it results in his own putbacks or outlets to reset and get a new 24 on the clock, offensive rebounding is a huge offensive contribution that Chandler will excel in. In that sense, his "offensive capability" (not limited to scoring points) is excellent. The Bulls rank 6th worst in the league in field goal % (43.3%) and second to last in rebounding. The team is primed for a Tyson Chandler to come in and make a huge impact on the glass on both ends (Curry too, hopefully); there are plenty of rebounds to go around.
 
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