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Agree? (You'll have to read the whole article for who he removed and more of his reasoning...)


In my mind, it is below six current stars who have made my revised version of the Top 50. Kobe Bryant is the highest, at No. 20, because he has been a dynamic scorer who often has carried the three-time champion Los Angeles Lakers through their various postseason dramas. At No. 21 is Tim Duncan, the state-of-the-art big man of the modern era, already the winner of a championship and great enough at both ends to lead the San Antonio Spurs to more glory. Drop to No. 35 to find Gary Payton, one of the best defensive guards of all time and a better offensive player than Pippen. Reggie Miller checks in at No. 37 as the one player who made Jordan flinch and quieted Madison Square Garden, the prime-time shooter who wants to take the big shot because he usually makes it. Jason Kidd is No. 42 as the leader Pippen never could be, the revolutionary passing-and-rebounding point guard.

And, yes, there is our good friend Allen Iverson at No. 46, as troubled off the court as Pippen but one of the best inch-for-inch, pound-for-pound scorers ever. With less talent around him than Pippen in recent years, Iverson led his team to an NBA Finals when Pippen could not.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay01.html

It's really hard to argue with his selections...except maybe Kobe. You could make the argument that Kobe benefitted from Shaq the way Pip did from MJ...
 

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I can't agree with the premise that Pip should be booted off the greatest 50. If we are basing it on talent and ability , and that is the argument for placing the new guys on the list, then you would see more of the older guys getting the boot before Pip.

Just my opinion.
 

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Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
I can't agree with the premise that Pip should be booted off the greatest 50. If we are basing it on talent and ability , and that is the argument for placing the new guys on the list, then you would see more of the older guys getting the boot before Pip.

Just my opinion.
agree BCH, Pip belongs on the top 50 list! In his day, Scottie was one of the best all around players ever. He was a tremendous defensive player, remember the job he did on Magic in the finals? If I recall correctly, wasn't he the first true "point forward"?
 

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All I can say is Jay Mariotti is stunningly ignorant on what it takes to make a basketball team a winner.
 

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Anything Mariotti writes is wrong, if only by virtue of the fact that it was written by him.;)

Seriously, it's a joke that this guy even has a job- anyone on this board could write a better article with their eyes closed. By better, of course, I mean more accurate- not better in the sense that it would sell more newspapers. Sensationalism sells
 

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In my opinion (and keep in mind this is from a guy who has 2 Pippen jerseys and bought his younger brother a signed poster)... Pip never belonged on the Greatest-50 list.

Scottie was a GREAT player. But let's be honest, the top 50 is the absolute cream of the crop, the top 50 out of the... thousands (?) who have played in the NBA (and ABA, I belive), that's glorified air... This is not a diss on Pip by any means, he was a great, great, great player. And top 10 during the 90? NO DOUBT. Top 50 from the 70/80/90/? Prolly.

I know some of you will take great offense to this, and... in a way you should if your a Bulls fan. After all Pip achieved for the Bull, how can you not a little? But we're biased! :) Ask somebody who lives in LA... or Texas if Scottie is a top-50 of all time player...

After all Scottie did in a Bulls uni... In my heart I WANT him on that list... But... I'm sorry, Scottie Pippen is not a top-50 of all time player... I really wish he was... but in the end... he's just not.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
I'm sorry, Scottie Pippen is not a top-50 of all time player... I really wish he was... but in the end... he's just not.
Why don't you think so?
 

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Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!

Why don't you think so?
In a nutshell:
Scottie was never "The Man." Never just the flat out BEST.

I just don't think you can be considered to be a top-50 (That group is a lot more... significant to me then to some people, I think.) without being "The Man" ... if only for a 3 year stretch (Like the Dream for instance).

Scottie is great, he is one of my favorite players ever to wear white, black and red... but I just don't think of him in the same light as Jordan, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, ect, ect....

(But that's just my opinion, I've been wrong once before :D )
 

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Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
In a nutshell:
Scottie was never "The Man." Never just the flat out BEST.
Well, in my opinion, it's rediculous to penalize Scottie simply for having been on the same team with arguably the best player of all time.

But what really refutes your argument, in my opinion, is the fact that there are plenty of other duos, or even trios, on that list-- Bird/McHale/Parish, Magic Johnson/James Worthy, Elvin Hayes/Wes Unseld, Stockton/Malone, Walt Frazier/Willis Reed/Dave Debusschere, Cowens/Havlicek, Oscar Robertson/Jerry Lucas, etc.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!

Well, in my opinion, it's rediculous to penalize Scottie simply for having been on the same team with arguably the best player of all time.

But what really refutes your argument, in my opinion, is the fact that there are plenty of other duos, or even trios, on that list-- Bird/McHale/Parish, Magic Johnson/James Worthy, Elvin Hayes/Wes Unseld, Stockton/Malone, Walt Frazier/Willis Reed/Dave Debusschere, Cowens/Havlicek, Oscar Robertson/Jerry Lucas, etc.
You bring up a good point (as usual) Kneepad.

I think time will remove McHale & Parish, Perhaps, Worthy & Collins, leaving only "The Man" (Boy I like saying that, haha) of the group. I was never able to see some of those groups play, and yes, perhaps playing with the greatest hurt his chances to be "The Man." But... He did have those 2 years in the middle to show his gusto, plus years in Houston & Portland. Perhaps his "Man mojo" :D was gone by then.....

On a related note, I'm not very farmiliar with some of those duos/trios. Were any of them in the situation of MJ/Pip, where thier playing days almost mirrored each other, or were they in a situation to be "The Man" for 4 or 6 years, and then a young stud was drafted to take thier "The Man" Mantle and carry it, and so on???
 

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Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
I think time will remove McHale & Parish, Perhaps, Worthy & Collins, leaving only "The Man" (Boy I like saying that, haha) of the group.
Not sure what you mean "time will remove." This list is etched in stone as the "50 Greatest Players of the NBA's First 50 Years." It's like the Hall of Fame-- once you're in, you're in.

Scottie did have those 2 years (1-3/4 years, actually) when MJ was gone, and he really stepped to the forefront. My memory is fuzzier now than it used to be, but I believe Scottie was the only unanimous first team all-NBA and unanimous all defensive team selection in league history in 93-94.

I'm not very farmiliar with some of those duos/trios. Were any of them in the situation of MJ/Pip, where thier playing days almost mirrored each other...?
Some of them, sure. Stockton & Malone, obviously. Upon doing a bit of quick research, I discovered that Bill Russell and Sam Jones's careers almost exactly mirrored each others. Bird & McHale were. Magic & Worthy were pretty close.

Others teamed up with great players on more than one team. Kareem teamed up with Oscar in Milwaukee and then Magic in LA. Jerry Lucas teamed up with Oscar in Cincinnati and then the great Knicks team of the early 70's with Reed/Fazier/DeBusschere. Havlicek teamed with Russell and Jones in the 60's and then Cowens in the 70's.
 

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Pippen will always be a top 50 and he has the rings to prove it. This man is so versatile he can dominate and control the tempo of a game without even scoring.
 

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i dont know if this was already posted since im way too lazy to look through the whole thread, but in the article it says that reggie was the man to make michael flinch.

jordan didnt flinch, he was fouled and everyone knows it!
 

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"Kobe Bryant is the highest, at No. 20, because he has been a dynamic scorer who often has carried the three-time champion Los Angeles Lakers through their various postseason dramas."

Scottie Pippen has been a dynamic scorer, passer, defender, rebounder who often has carried the six-time champion Chicago Bulls through their various postseason dramas.

Mariotti is a moron. And this is perhaps the most idiotic thing he wrote. Kobe Bryant may be a top 50 player, but is no where near being No. 20. Other than being a All-Star MVP and being on a few All-NBA teams, Kobe does not have any awards such as MVP and has never led the league in anything. Mariotti is criticizing Pippen for the exact same things Kobe Bryant has done. Kobe wasn't THE MAN in LA, that was Shaq, just like THE MAN was Jordan in Chicago. Without Jordan, Pippen carried the Bulls deep into the postseason. Without Shaq, Kobe carried the Lakers right into last place in their division.
 

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Kobe is amazing but top 20 was awfully high. I say top 30 but not top 20, by the end of his career he will be top 5 guaranteed.
 

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Dont let Minstral

From the Blazer boards know about this thread...

It will be trouble... trouble I say! :)

He is one of the Pippen faithful... I am sure Mariotti is looking over his shoulder as we speak.
 
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