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From alot of stuff i've read Pippen say, hes pretty blunt and honest. I was wondering the other day what Pippen thought of the 3 C's progress, guess this answers that.
 

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Players playing with pride? Showing heart? Playing with effort? What the hell is Scottie talking about??? Surely he must know that Crawford and Curry are all-stars in the making. Why should they have to work at improving themselves when their immense talent is so plainly evident. Scottie Pippin is an old man. He's played, what, 15+ years in the league? He's got 6 titles to his name and was part of the 50 best players. He's got no clue what it takes to succeed in the NBA. None.

(Parts of the preceeding post were intended to be sarcastic)
 

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Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
Players playing with pride? Showing heart? Playing with effort? What the hell is Scottie talking about??? Surely he must know that Crawford and Curry are all-stars in the making. Why should they have to work at improving themselves when their immense talent is so plainly evident. Scottie Pippin is an old man. He's played, what, 15+ years in the league? He's got 6 titles to his name and was part of the 50 best players. He's got no clue what it takes to succeed in the NBA. None.

(Parts of the preceeding post were intended to be sarcastic)
Sarcastic, but misplaced. Scottie has been past his NBA prime for 5 years and one could lay a serious argument that he would have been just another "star" in the L without MJ.

Considering he is stealing 4.5m from the Bulls this season while providing almost no production, he should look in the mirror.
 

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Pippen can say what he wants, hes got more titles than pretty much everyone in the organization. Not only that, but for the same team.

It might be different if he was going out on a limb, like if he was saying trade Curry definetly while you can, or something. Hes pretty much stating the obvious though, things we've all known for some time.
 

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Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!


Sarcastic, but misplaced. Scottie has been past his NBA prime for 5 years and one could lay a serious argument that he would have been just another "star" in the L without MJ.

Considering he is stealing 4.5m from the Bulls this season while providing almost no production, he should look in the mirror.
Gee. Pippen might have only been a "star" in this league as opposed to what we have now? Stick your head in the ground if you'd like. I won't stop you. His words ring true.

I won't debate his value to this team in the here and now. It's nonexistant. I will listen to what he has to say with respect to what it takes to succeed in this league. Downgrade his accomplishments all you want. Scottie Pippen was a damn fine baskeball player. Far greater than anything that is on our squad at the current moment. Multiple defensive first team honors. All-Star MVP. Six time NBA champion. (Yes, yes. With MJ. MJ did it all himself without any help from anyone, yada, yada, yada.) He knows the work required to excel in this league and he doesn't see it from the kids. Hell, Scottie was witness to one of the hardest workers ever in MJ.

Blow off his comments. Make further excuses. Whatever floats your boat.
 

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Past his prime or not, Pippen's accomplishments have earned him the right to call out a group of punks who've been stealing from the organization since the day they were drafted.

Pippen's no more washed up that Oakley was during his last season in Chicago. However, unlike Oakley, Pippen has picked his spots to criticize the team's young nucleus. How many times has he called them out since he signed? Not often enough.

There's a lot of things I may not like about Pippen personally. But as a professional basketball player he's accomplished more than most who ever played the game. He knows what it takes to win. He deserves to be listened to.
 

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Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
Considering he is stealing 4.5m from the Bulls this season while providing almost no production, he should look in the mirror.
Retro Dreams, you must be somehow connected to Jerry Krause clan. But you guys are running out of excuses for your lovechild Eddy Curry. You can say all you want about Scottie, but I will take his words as true without blink in the eye. If you think so that Pipen is wrong about “the kids” that’s your choice, but at the same moment you are loosing all creditability in my eyes.
 

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Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
Past his prime or not, Pippen's accomplishments have earned him the right to call out a group of punks who've been stealing from the organization since the day they were drafted.

Pippen's no more washed up that Oakley was during his last season in Chicago. However, unlike Oakley, Pippen has picked his spots to criticize the team's young nucleus. How many times has he called them out since he signed? Not often enough.
I certainly hope that this bitterness and desire to lash out at the young players is not widespread throughout the Bulls' organization. If it is, then things are far more hopeless than they seem at this point.

It seems to me that that the fairly constant public criticism of the Bulls' young players, in particular Curry, has long went past being productive and now is really nothing more than instant gratification for the people delivering the public criticism. For any player, but especically players like the Bulls' young players, a whole city of bad cops and seemingly no good cops has almost no chance of being sucessful in turning a young player who lacks confidence into something better. Has there ever been a player who recovered from such criticism to be successful in the city where the criticism was launched from? In particular, has there ever been a young player who has done so?

Through our wildly unrealistic expectations for Brand, Artest, Miller, etc. and now Curry, Chandler, and Crawford, we can continue to eat our young. And while it certainly makes us all feel better by having someone to scapegoat, it probably is counterproductive in making our team any better. And that is what we all care about, isn't it?
 

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Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!


I certainly hope that this bitterness and desire to lash out at the young players is not widespread throughout the Bulls' organization. If it is, then things are far more hopeless than they seem at this point.

It seems to me that that the fairly constant public criticism of the Bulls' young players, in particular Curry, has long went past being productive and now is really nothing more than instant gratification for the people delivering the public criticism. For any player, but especically players like the Bulls' young players, a whole city of bad cops and seemingly no good cops has almost no chance of being sucessful in turning a young player who lacks confidence into something better. Has there ever been a player who recovered from such criticism to be successful in the city where the criticism was launched from? In particular, has there ever been a young player who has done so?

Through our wildly unrealistic expectations for Brand, Artest, Miller, etc. and now Curry, Chandler, and Crawford, we can continue to eat our young. And while it certainly makes us all feel better by having someone to scapegoat, it probably is counterproductive in making our team any better. And that is what we all care about, isn't it?
Finally, someone with half a clue. Great post.
 

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Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
Past his prime or not, Pippen's accomplishments have earned him the right to call out a group of punks who've been stealing from the organization since the day they were drafted.

Pippen's no more washed up that Oakley was during his last season in Chicago. However, unlike Oakley, Pippen has picked his spots to criticize the team's young nucleus. How many times has he called them out since he signed? Not often enough.

There's a lot of things I may not like about Pippen personally. But as a professional basketball player he's accomplished more than most who ever played the game. He knows what it takes to win. He deserves to be listened to.
BS.

So we could sign Luc Longley and it is acceptable for him to come in and talk bad about our players? or Randy Brown? They all have accomplishments and were World Champions, too.

Pippen is clueless. He surely didn't run his mouth much about his teammates when he was in Portland when guys were driving around smoking pot, fighting in practice and the like. Why not? Because they were vets? Or because he didn't have the cajones to say something?

Whatever the case, Older Brother Sydrome (OBS) is so chic these days. It seems like all of our "vets" on the team have it, yet none are willing to look at their "production", or lack of it.

When someone like Kendall Gill, who played 35 minutes complains about someone who played 11 minutes, how can he do it with a straight face? Gill had more opportunity to be a factor and we still lost, with the opposing 2 and 3 scoring a majority of the points. When does he look in the mirror?

You know, as I've said, I hope these kids get dealt. They're all going to become monsters, and there are teams out there who can foster a better development environment then Chicago can. When these kids hit 24 and 25 and they are terrorizing our still mediocre squad, I'm going to sit back and laugh.

Before I go, I have one question for you.

People (namely execs, GMs and other players) around the league rave about the Pacers' Al Harrington. He, a high school draftee, is now in his 6th season in the NBA. For the past three seasons he has been averaging around 30mpg putting up 12.5ppg and 6 boards per with little improvement. His defense, too, has been labeled as shaky at times and his shooting is sometimes questionable.

Yet, if you went to the Pacers, they'd tell you he is as close to untouchable as you find on that roster.

Why is that?

Following the Pacers as my 2nd team since I live in Indiana, the Indiana Pacers is an organization that trumps us in the development of young players. In the last 3 years, I probably only read one, maybe 2, articles on Harrington. The articles called for more production, but never, did a vet like Reggie Miller drag Harrington through the mud and tell him he needs to start "playing harder," with "more heart," or anything like that?

Why is that?

While I attribute most of it to class, something that Scottie has little of, a lot is how Donnie Walsh, the Indiana GM, has fostered a great development culture in Indiana. Until Chicago learns how to develop a culture and developmental environment, we will suffer.

Before you try to pull the "they're pros card," that just doesn't fly... the Bull organization signed up for this the day they traded Elton Brand. They knew this was coming and they prepared for, and executed it miserably. If they expected, or you expected, that 3 21-22 year olds to lead this franchise to the promised land as 21-22 year olds... shame on you.

It also is absolutely ludicrous to let unproductive, overpaid veterans talk **** in the media. This does no good, none. I wonder how many times Kendall or Scottie has taken Jamal aside after practice and worked with him... that was at least one thing Jalen did well. I'd place a large ransom on him showering and jetting off to "work on his real estate business."

This franchise makes me absolutely sick right now and ashamed of being such a diehard... and it has nothing to do with the loses.
 

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Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
Before you try to pull the "they're pros card," that just doesn't fly... the Bull organization signed up for this the day they traded Elton Brand. They knew this was coming and they prepared for, and executed it miserably. If they expected, or you expected, that 3 21-22 year olds to lead this franchise to the promised land as 21-22 year olds... shame on you.
I think this is probably close to the truth, but I don't see what your solution is.

It's not just "the organization" or if it was, it's not anymore. The fans that boo Curry and Crawford at the UC aren't going to stop unless they play well. And these kids aren't going to succeed in that kind of environment, if at all.

It could be that this fate was sealed just when they traded Brand. Whatever he's saying now, it's certainly not the kind of expectations Krause built up that it'd be 5 years down the road before these kids could play. Nor is it the kind of team he built up to play around him.

In short, what you're asking for is unrealistic. You're asking people to accept watching these kids suck *** for at least the next couple of years on the hope that they're going to fulfill expectations. At the same time, the expectations have to expand to ever more unrealistic proportions to seem like justifiable compensation for all the losing we endure now.

It's never gonna work, and they should have known it wasn't going to work from the start. Your faith in Curry is admirable (and this entire argument leaves out whether I think it's warranted), but he is NOT going to succeed in light of the expectations built for him.

So really there are only two solutions. One is to start fresh, move him and Jamal, trading them for other young talented players, hopefully some a little more ready to perform.

The other is the one I favor, but it's pretty clear the Bulls aren't going to do. And that's to keep them but move the focal point away from them by overpaying to take on veteran players who can carry the load in the short run. They could get there hands on several serviceable vets (not washed up guys but overpayed guys) who could at least raise our win total in the short-run, thus lowering the pressure and expectations on the kids. In short, to give them some breathing room. But it looks like time is running out on that idea, so it's pretty much a moot point :|

As a final note, it's worth pointing out that the Rose/Marshall trade seemed largely to be a step in the wrong direction there. We had two guys who could carry the load and we expressly traded them for guys who were better defenders but more role players, thus forcing Curry and Crawford into the limelight. Clearly they weren't ready at the beginning of the season, so this move simply exaccerbated the problem we already faced.
 

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I think it is hilarious that a guy who came into camp in poor condition and has played like what, half a dozen games? can rip on anyone. And the half a dozen games he has played in he certainly hasn't looked very good. He hasn't played with more heart than anyone else.

When things went bad for the Bulls Pip bailed. He went to Houston and he went to Portland. Meanwhile the Bulls were drafting/trading and mishandling Curry, Crawford, and Chandler. Pippen hasn't had to put up with consistently losing over the course of three seasons. Pippen doesn't know anything about how hard that has been for the three C's. But it's ok for him to bring his lame, washed up, "wanna be a star" game into the UC and bad mouth guys that are basically ready to go out there and try every night regardless of whether they are ready or not. Crawford and Curry have barely missed any time this season, especially Crawford. And Pip says they haven't developed since being rookies? Excuse me? Crawford and Curry both have come a LOOONNNG way since they were rookies, so has Chandler. Sure, Curry is sort of regressing at the moment, I'll admit that. But I seriously doubt Pippen has followed the three C's with an eye towards their development since their rookie season.

And if the Bulls seem to lack heart, perhaps that is simply because there are 3 young, still developing players playing games with role players as their vet leaders and trying to win games. Big surprise that they aren't! Maybe Pax should have brought in some legitimate players like Darrell Armstrong and James Posey during the offseason and we would be singing a different tune.
 

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Personally I think Jamal and Eddy ought to show a little heart in dealing with this issue. Give Sam Smith a call and tell them that Pippen does have some invaluable advice, it's just a shame he doesn't have any game left to go with it.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
In short, what you're asking for is unrealistic. You're asking people to accept watching these kids suck *** for at least the next couple of years on the hope that they're going to fulfill expectations. At the same time, the expectations have to expand to ever more unrealistic proportions to seem like justifiable compensation for all the losing we endure now.
No, I don't really think so. Like I've said 100s of times and what seems like 'till I've been blue in the face, I'd give them until the ends of their RFA deals.

However, 11 minutes on the floor isn't going to do it, good or bad defense, good or bad shots, what have you. They need 30mpg+ from here on our until the end of their contracts.

We aren't significantly better, in any aspect, with them on the bench. In fact, I'll challenge and say we are much worse. Trade Curry's offense for defense, you get rarely either out of Blount. Trade Crawfords offense for defense, you sometimes get offense, rarely defense out of Gill. Trade Chandlers defense for offense, and you get the hustle but nothing more from JYD.

Let them learn on the floor until their deals are up.

Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
As a final note, it's worth pointing out that the Rose/Marshall trade seemed largely to be a step in the wrong direction there. We had two guys who could carry the load and we expressly traded them for guys who were better defenders but more role players, thus forcing Curry and Crawford into the limelight. Clearly they weren't ready at the beginning of the season, so this move simply exaccerbated the problem we already faced.
I agree with this... 100 fold. But since Paxson made that mistake, he should now go on his assumptions and play the guys as I said above.
 

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But Retro, do you really honestly think if your thoughts were carried out, that they'd get it?

Don't get me wrong, I was just saying I want them out there all 48 (because we've tried everything else), and I think if they're ever going to get it, it's because they've got no one else to save them but themselves.

But I'm only invoking that strategy because it's the only one I see that we haven't tried. I see a big probability that the boos become unbearable, that instead of learning they just collapse completely be beaten into the dust.

That's a calculated risk of course, but surely it'd be better to trade them for something rather than ruin them forever if we really think that'll happen. I don't know the right answer, but I don't like the alternatives.
 

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I'm on board with the "it's gone overboard" clan.

I don't think Pax is going to trade them, though, with this kind of bad press. They are, truly, at the bottom of their value. Maybe this is a good time to "overpay" them a little and give them undercutting extensions. Maybe this is Pax's way of manhandling their contract leverage.

Signing Crawford on the cheap would be the beginning. Even if they have to give Curry and Chandler close to the max, just getting Craw for the cheap will help the overall cap scenario.
 

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I am sure the Bulls knew that he wasnt going to be an impact player on the court. I am not a Bulls fan but even I know it is time for these two kids to start to show something. I am beginning to wonder if maybe the Bulls should cut their losses short with Curry and get rid of him. He isnt going to get any better.
 
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