The Article
AP article. A lot of what we've heard before, but this is as blunt as I've heard Pippen be.
AP article. A lot of what we've heard before, but this is as blunt as I've heard Pippen be.
Sarcastic, but misplaced. Scottie has been past his NBA prime for 5 years and one could lay a serious argument that he would have been just another "star" in the L without MJ.Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
Players playing with pride? Showing heart? Playing with effort? What the hell is Scottie talking about??? Surely he must know that Crawford and Curry are all-stars in the making. Why should they have to work at improving themselves when their immense talent is so plainly evident. Scottie Pippin is an old man. He's played, what, 15+ years in the league? He's got 6 titles to his name and was part of the 50 best players. He's got no clue what it takes to succeed in the NBA. None.
(Parts of the preceeding post were intended to be sarcastic)
Gee. Pippen might have only been a "star" in this league as opposed to what we have now? Stick your head in the ground if you'd like. I won't stop you. His words ring true.Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
Sarcastic, but misplaced. Scottie has been past his NBA prime for 5 years and one could lay a serious argument that he would have been just another "star" in the L without MJ.
Considering he is stealing 4.5m from the Bulls this season while providing almost no production, he should look in the mirror.
Retro Dreams, you must be somehow connected to Jerry Krause clan. But you guys are running out of excuses for your lovechild Eddy Curry. You can say all you want about Scottie, but I will take his words as true without blink in the eye. If you think so that Pipen is wrong about “the kids” that’s your choice, but at the same moment you are loosing all creditability in my eyes.Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
Considering he is stealing 4.5m from the Bulls this season while providing almost no production, he should look in the mirror.
I certainly hope that this bitterness and desire to lash out at the young players is not widespread throughout the Bulls' organization. If it is, then things are far more hopeless than they seem at this point.Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
Past his prime or not, Pippen's accomplishments have earned him the right to call out a group of punks who've been stealing from the organization since the day they were drafted.
Pippen's no more washed up that Oakley was during his last season in Chicago. However, unlike Oakley, Pippen has picked his spots to criticize the team's young nucleus. How many times has he called them out since he signed? Not often enough.
Finally, someone with half a clue. Great post.Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
I certainly hope that this bitterness and desire to lash out at the young players is not widespread throughout the Bulls' organization. If it is, then things are far more hopeless than they seem at this point.
It seems to me that that the fairly constant public criticism of the Bulls' young players, in particular Curry, has long went past being productive and now is really nothing more than instant gratification for the people delivering the public criticism. For any player, but especically players like the Bulls' young players, a whole city of bad cops and seemingly no good cops has almost no chance of being sucessful in turning a young player who lacks confidence into something better. Has there ever been a player who recovered from such criticism to be successful in the city where the criticism was launched from? In particular, has there ever been a young player who has done so?
Through our wildly unrealistic expectations for Brand, Artest, Miller, etc. and now Curry, Chandler, and Crawford, we can continue to eat our young. And while it certainly makes us all feel better by having someone to scapegoat, it probably is counterproductive in making our team any better. And that is what we all care about, isn't it?
BS.Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
Past his prime or not, Pippen's accomplishments have earned him the right to call out a group of punks who've been stealing from the organization since the day they were drafted.
Pippen's no more washed up that Oakley was during his last season in Chicago. However, unlike Oakley, Pippen has picked his spots to criticize the team's young nucleus. How many times has he called them out since he signed? Not often enough.
There's a lot of things I may not like about Pippen personally. But as a professional basketball player he's accomplished more than most who ever played the game. He knows what it takes to win. He deserves to be listened to.
I think this is probably close to the truth, but I don't see what your solution is.Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
Before you try to pull the "they're pros card," that just doesn't fly... the Bull organization signed up for this the day they traded Elton Brand. They knew this was coming and they prepared for, and executed it miserably. If they expected, or you expected, that 3 21-22 year olds to lead this franchise to the promised land as 21-22 year olds... shame on you.
No, I don't really think so. Like I've said 100s of times and what seems like 'till I've been blue in the face, I'd give them until the ends of their RFA deals.Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
In short, what you're asking for is unrealistic. You're asking people to accept watching these kids suck *** for at least the next couple of years on the hope that they're going to fulfill expectations. At the same time, the expectations have to expand to ever more unrealistic proportions to seem like justifiable compensation for all the losing we endure now.
I agree with this... 100 fold. But since Paxson made that mistake, he should now go on his assumptions and play the guys as I said above.Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
As a final note, it's worth pointing out that the Rose/Marshall trade seemed largely to be a step in the wrong direction there. We had two guys who could carry the load and we expressly traded them for guys who were better defenders but more role players, thus forcing Curry and Crawford into the limelight. Clearly they weren't ready at the beginning of the season, so this move simply exaccerbated the problem we already faced.
Past his prime, yes. But a couple of infamous lapses aside, Pippen has spent his career hustling on and off the court. He elevated his game as a young player by practicing hard and working out hard. He always gave 100% on both sides of the court.Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
Sarcastic, but misplaced. Scottie has been past his NBA prime for 5 years and one could lay a serious argument that he would have been just another "star" in the L without MJ.
Considering he is stealing 4.5m from the Bulls this season while providing almost no production, he should look in the mirror.
Mike, to be honest, I can't answer that question because that is part of the unknown when you draft on "potential." We took the risk, and thus far, it hasn't paid off. But does that mean it won't in the long run? Of course not. But we sure in hell won't find out if we stay this current course.Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
But Retro, do you really honestly think if your thoughts were carried out, that they'd get it?
Don't get me wrong, I was just saying I want them out there all 48 (because we've tried everything else), and I think if they're ever going to get it, it's because they've got no one else to save them but themselves.
But I'm only invoking that strategy because it's the only one I see that we haven't tried. I see a big probability that the boos become unbearable, that instead of learning they just collapse completely be beaten into the dust.
That's a calculated risk of course, but surely it'd be better to trade them for something rather than ruin them forever if we really think that'll happen. I don't know the right answer, but I don't like the alternatives.
This is just a hypothetical, but fits because of the direction that the NBA has moved in. The state of the NBA is now geared towards the young and the youth movement is what the NBA is investing in.Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
I don't have a problem with what Pippen said. He was the #2 guy on a team that won 6 NBA titles. Six. Sans those titles, Chicago would be a sports ghost town. People really seem to forget how much MJ/Pip/PJ did for this franchise.
Gawd, Red Auerbach could coach here or Riley or PJ... and if they called out our young players, the loyal posters on BB.net would in turn roast their opinions for not coddling our young players.
Awesome post RetroD. I agree with everything you said my man!Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
This is just a hypothetical, but fits because of the direction that the NBA has moved in. The state of the NBA is now geared towards the young and the youth movement is what the NBA is investing in.
Say you're a father. What do you think the long term effect on your son would be if his teacher told the press, or for sake of better reference, all of his classmates and people who interacts with that he was "stupid," "had no heart," or any other sort of negatives.
I'd be willing to bet the kid would be seeing a shrink, considering to commit suicide, or a host of other negative behaviors because after awhile, he'd start to believe it.
Perception is a very powerful thing, and when I was in college and 21 years old, I wanted everyone to perceive me in a certain way. I can only imagine what would have happened had one of my friends, or my professors went blazing saddles telling everyone negatively toned things about me.
I don't like the way the NBA is and haven't liked the direction it has moved in since the mid 90s. In fact, it is tearing the game apart because of situations like ours. That bottom line is that these kids will most likely turn out developing into fine players, maybe even into the upper echelon of stars... but the process for them getting there just ain't right.
I still long for the 80s, when pro basketball was really pro basketball... not part time day care, and part time recess.