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Discussion Starter #1
its funny how everyone talks about Big Ben as top 25 players in the league

here are the only players who get decent time in their team's rotation and have less offensive skill than him

chris andersen
kelvin cato
reggie evans

lynch,augmon, bowen, h.grant, hassell, michael curry are also pretty bad
just like ben wallace all these players are defensive specialsts

i would say
lynch
bowen
hassell
curry
are as good overall defenders as wallace
however no one ever mentions these guys as top 25 or even top 75

the only thing ben has on them is rebounding
if he is top 25 like most think
than they are all definatly top 50
 

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They arent as good as him on D amd dont have that big of an impact and plus this year Ben is stepping up his O.
 

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Um, defense is 1/2 of basketball.

Individual scoring is 1/5 of 1/2 of basketball.

Offensive rebounds is part of offence.

Setting screens is part of offence.

Boxing out help defenders from the player driving the basket is part of offence.

Opportunities to score are limited by the coach's approach. Ben is scoring more with Brown at the helm...

Ben is definitely top 25.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
i know
this isn't scoring
this is overall offensively
which players are worse than ben

maybe i didnt take offensive reb into it as much as i should have
its mostly scoring and passing

and im not saying those guys are even as good as wallace defensively(even though i think htey are)
but lets say they are a little worse
and he is an excellent reb
but if he is top 25
than they are top 50 for sure
 

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You have to think about presence in the paint and Ben provides so much more of that than the other. Plus he is a great energy player that help the team. His blocks help out on offense to start fast breaks.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
all these things you guys are mentioning are not at all big impacts
and there are many other players who
"block out"
take up space
get out of the way and get rebounds to start fast breaks as well
as wallace

look at
dampier
mihm
camby
stepania
foster
evans
l.wright
magloire
cato
a.davis
j.williams
foyle
and many more
maybe not quite as good as wallace
but very close to being as good as him
i mean if he is top 25
than these guys are all top 50 as well????
 

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Whats with all the hating on Big Ben.......Ben Wallace is a top 25 player in the NBA without a doubt, watch a Piston game sometime and you will find out why......and in the words of Shaq Diesal, "If you dont believe that you need to go eat some ant poisoining."
 

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The only centers in the eastern conference that score more than Ben are Bosh, Ilgauskas, Magloire, and Curry.

He has a great shot at averaging a double double for the season. He isn't nearly as offensively limited as you think. When he goes one on one with a guy in the post he does a pretty good job. He's so athletic and has a very fast first step, he can get to the basket at will but his problem has always been finishing, which he is getting a lot better at. He is also a very good passer, although nobody really knows it because he doesn't touch the ball a lot.

And all those guys you mentioned aren't even CLOSE to as good as Wallace defensively.

Ben has the total package on defense: 1st in blocks, 2nd in rebounds, and 8th in steals.

Plus the stuff he does that doesn't show up in stats like change shots and chase down loose balls, both of which he is among the best in the league at.

Ben has one of the best total floor games in the NBA.
 

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I think Wallace's offense is really underrated by some. Is he great at it? Certainly not. Is he one of the worst in the league? Certainly not. Sure, 10 PPG on 42% FG isn't exactly stellar, but it isn't awful.

Some of the players listed as having defense as good as his are just plain wrong in my opinion. Curry? I don't even think he has good defense, let alone at the same level as Wallace. Hassell? Solid, but doesn't change the game. Ditto for Lynch.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
curry and hassell are definatly as good as wallace

hassell has been teh best men perimeter defender this year
along with artest
 

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Discussion Starter #11
sure wallace average 10 points a game
but he is also shooting 42%
considering that always gets a dunk or 2
thats a horrible percentage
the only reason he gets that much points
is earlier in the season larry brown
tried to get him involved a little
by actually runnin some plays for him
and giving him the ball in the post

also look at his minutes per game
he is one of the leaders
it would be a shame if he didnt get 10 a game in 40 min

lookin at all of that he is definatly one of the worst offensive players in the league
 

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Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
curry and hassell are definatly as good as wallace
Dude, Curry played with Wallace last year and had NOWHERE NEAR the same defensive presence that been had.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
why do you think curry even plays minutes
why do you think he starts for the 2 detroit playoffs teams
and now started earlier in the season for the raptors???

for his D!!!
he plays terrific D
i think better than wallace
sure wallace gets more blocks and steals
but blocks and steals are the least important of what you can do on D
 

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Ben struggled with FG% early this season but it has been steadily on it's way up. Over the last month he is averaging 10 a game on 45% shooting, that's better than almost every other center in the eastern conference.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
thats because Ben plays like 40 minutes a game!
name another Center in the east who plays his minutes
and that will be you explanation why wallace averages more
 

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Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
why do you think curry even plays minutes
why do you think he starts for the 2 detroit playoffs teams
and now started earlier in the season for the raptors???

for his D!!!
he plays terrific D
i think better than wallace
sure wallace gets more blocks and steals
but blocks and steals are the least important of what you can do on D
You are out of control.
Michael Curry played about 10 minutes a game for the Pistons last year. Mainly because Rick Carlisle likes to start vets.
Please tell me that you don't think Curry is any where near the defender that Big Ben is. I watched almost every Pistons game that Ben & MC played in & Curry had an impact in about 1 out of 20 games, Ben impacts every single game.
BTW Michael Curry is/was the President of the players union, this is the main reason that he is in the league. He is awful!

Ben is a top 25 player for sure.
Have you noticed how no 1 else is on your side?
 

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Originally posted by <b>The Mad Viking</b>!
Um, defense is 1/2 of basketball.

Individual scoring is 1/5 of 1/2 of basketball.
You are trying to use a double standard here. If individual O is 1/10 of basketball, then individual D is as well.
 

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^^^That being said, this kids argument of Michael Curry is just idiotic.
 

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Ben Wallace's value to his team is not his offense but what he brings on defense and considering the Piston's are a defensive oriented team...Ben is indeed VERY valuable. It is arguable whether or not Ben is a top 25 player due to his lack of offense but then shouldn't the same argument be applied for a player's lack of defense. As people say, offense gets all the glory and I guess those who argue against Ben being a top 25 player follow that notion. So is Ben a top 25 player? I think so. Is he a top 25 valuable player? Definitely and the later being much more important to the Pistons and their fans.
 
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