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Discussion Starter #1
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics

Top 10 in Asst/TO ratio last season:

1. Jeff McGinnis
2. Alvin Williams
3. Avery Johnson
4. Mark Jackson
5. Terell Brandon
6. Travis Best
7. Nick Van Exel
8. Mookie 'Dookie' Blaylock
9. Fred Hoiberg
10.John Stockton

1 Hall-of-famer, 2 Chicago Bulls (yikes!), and some lower-tier point guards... you won't see much interest in any of these guys (minus Van Exel and possibly Best as a back-up)

Let's not start dogging Jay Williams or praising Crawford too quickly based on this statistic. Peace.

VD
 

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Originally posted by Vin Diesel
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics

Top 10 in Asst/TO ratio last season:

1. Jeff McGinnis
2. Alvin Williams
3. Avery Johnson
4. Mark Jackson
5. Terell Brandon
6. Travis Best
7. Nick Van Exel
8. Mookie 'Dookie' Blaylock
9. Fred Hoiberg
10.John Stockton

1 Hall-of-famer, 2 Chicago Bulls (yikes!), and some lower-tier point guards... you won't see much interest in any of these guys (minus Van Exel and possibly Best as a back-up)

Let's not start dogging Jay Williams or praising Crawford too quickly based on this statistic. Peace.

VD
HEY VIN DIESEL, remember me?? forget me yet??(you are gonna get a similar post from me JUST LIKE THIS ONE, for every win the Bulls get this year and YES, I hope and pray I have sent you 45 of these!!!!) LOL...hey, is it just me, or did dickey simpkins ALWAYS look like he just woke up??? hahahaha:sleep:

Why are most posters here dogging williams? did they want dunleavy or gooden instead? i wonder why? I say give em some time, eh? GO BULLS~~~:sleep:
 

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A/TO is a statistic. Like all statistics it needs to be looked at in a valid context. You are not using it in a valid context unless you are truly targeting indiscriminately who produces more assists per TO without regard to playing time or position.

Commenting on JWill and JCs assist to turnover is valid criticism in the sense that they are the PG options on the Bulls and thus are going to handle the ball the majority of the time. They bring the ball up the court, even if they do run a triangle, and they are either making a pass or shooting it. It may not relate to a high number of assists to run the triangle, but it also should lead to a high number of TOs subsequently, which preserves the A/TO ratio. Does it help to use it to compare Bulls PGs to another teams? That would be changing the context and then at that point you have to place a value on that comparison based on what type of offense the other team runs. Many other factors are probably useful to consider as well, but because you can't find a use for the A/TO doesn't mean it is useless.
 

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you all, also need to think about how much more time the ball is in these guy's hands.. Kidd has the ball in his hand A LOT, so therefor he is gonna have more turnovers.. Hoiberg barly played, Brandon was injured so they didnt have the ball as much to turn it over
 

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I believe assist/TO ratio is a very important statistic.

Check out the team assist/TO ratios for last season:

Code:
Team	Ratio	W-L%
Twolves	1.82	61%
Lakers	1.81	71%
Mavs	1.79	70%
Kings	1.74	74%
Sonics	1.71	55%
Nets	1.68	63%
Blazers	1.64	60%
Magic	1.61	54%
Wizards	1.60	45%
Bucks	1.60	50%
Cavs	1.58	35%
Celtics	1.55	60%
Hornets	1.53	54%
Suns	1.53	44%
Raptors	1.52	51%
Pacers	1.51	51%
Nuggets	1.51	33%
Pistons	1.48	61%
Jazz	1.48	54%
Bulls	1.45	26%
Knicks	1.44	37%
Clips	1.41	48%
Spurs	1.39	71%
Heat	1.37	44%
Griz	1.33	28%
Sixers	1.30	52%
Hawks	1.30	40%
Rockets	1.28	34%
Warriors	1.24	26%
Notice any trends?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Point taken, Kneepad.

Team Asst/TO ratio is a fair measurement as to the general success of a given team in the NBA.

What I take exception to is the micro-managing of the A/TO ratio for a Jay Williams to Jamal Crawford matchup... especially in light of it being summer league games. Not to beat the summer league argument to death (from other threads) but they mean very little to NBA regular season success. They do however help teams gel and get to know each other, which the Bulls have been doing well for some stretches.

This Jay Williams and Jamal Crawford debate will go on, but hopefully we won't knit-pick their games too much until we see the reg. season start off. That's where their respective games will be proven and we'll be able to examine them under a better microscope.

Peace all.

VD
 

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I never slice.
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Your point is well taken as well, VD. And I intended to acknowledge that at the end of my post, but obviously neglected to. Any statistic compiled over a short period of time can be very misleading.
 

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I realize it's way too little a sample to make a serious comment about it

BUT

to respond (in character)

"Jay"'s current A/TO of .5 isn't
"GOODEN"ough for me. :D

Brandon's A/TO really skews things and probably should be thrown out. He plays things rather safe.
 

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Brandon played in 32 games and averaged 30 minutes a game with 8.3 assists per game. His numbers are valid.
 
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