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He's 21, divorced, has two kids and a house most of us could never afford, yes. But that doesn't change the fact his mind is just 21 years old.
He's got two kids already??

I knew he had one, and I knew he was divorced (I found the story of how once he hit it big he pretty much dumped his high-school sweetheart that he'd just married pretty unimpressive by the way), but he's had another one?
 

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See, it's easy to jump on Eddy's shoulders this week, calling for him to be traded. He's a scapegoat, along with Jamal Crawford. The Bulls are using them as cover-ups for everything they've botched since Jordan left. They make it easy for you to blame the young guys.
Word.
Face it folks. Managment sold us a raw deal. Look at the roster. It seems amazing that we were being told this team was going to be a playoff team. And the roster actually looks worse on paper now than it did.

We're talking about a lineup of:
Hinrich(Rookie)
Gill(Washed-up never been)
Dupree(NBDL)
JYD(Overpaid Garbage man player)
Antonio Davis(Overpaid jumpshooting center)

With such luminaries as:
Corie Blount
Rick Brunson
Chris Jefferies

playing big roles off the bench.

How does that not look like the worst team in the league?

So it's clear all of our hopes were pinned on two 21 year-olds and a 23 year old who were never really coached all that well, and had never put together an entire season where they did anything but ride the pine for the majority of it.

The expecations were ****ed up. And because of it we're going to see the rebuilding plan chopped up and flushed down the toliet in haste because of those messed up expectations.

It's obvious this year should have been another development year. But you can't sell tickets and steal money from Bulls fans by telling fans that.

We were lied to. We've been lied to. Yeah, yell about Curry, Chandler, and Crawford. But don't forget to yell about Reinsdorf and this joke of an organization the loudest.

This organization dismantled the greatest team ever...for this? Who wouldn't have preffered to watch the Bulls stay together for another 2-3 years and see what happened?
 

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Couldn't agree more.

this is 90% organizational blowing it and 10% one single player not being superhuman as we were led to believe.
 

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What were you doing at 21?

Were you throwing around grown men on a basketball court who were older, wiser and more physically developed?

Were you singled out in practices by a guy like Skiles, The Hoop Nazi?

Did you have millions hanging around your neck like an albatross?
1 Working 40 hours a week at a restaurant to pay for my 21 hour classload for my double-major undergraduate degree.

2 In fact, yes, at the rec center on Campus. Also competing with older and more mature musician's for gigs (I'm a bass-trombonist) in the local symphonies, brass quintets, and jazz bands to help supplement both my wallet and my resume.

3 No. My "Nazi's" were named Fraschillo, Hofacre, Zaninelli, and Jerome. They were ready to tear me a new @-hole if I didn't perform to my best standard every rehearsal and performance. Fortunately, I am left with still only one @-hole because I was even more demanding of myself than they were of me. After all, while my success or failure measured little in their reputations, it mattered a lot for my future career.

4 Cry me a river. "Please don't pay me millions and then expect me to perform my best". That's a problem I'm sorry to say that I've never had.

The only fault management has in the Eddy Curry fiasco is having expectations of the kid. Only reason they look like idiots is because he has not met those expectations.
 

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Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!


Word.
Face it folks. Managment sold us a raw deal. Look at the roster. It seems amazing that we were being told this team was going to be a playoff team. And the roster actually looks worse on paper now than it did.

We're talking about a lineup of:
Hinrich(Rookie)
Gill(Washed-up never been)
Dupree(NBDL)
JYD(Overpaid Garbage man player)
Antonio Davis(Overpaid jumpshooting center)

With such luminaries as:
Corie Blount
Rick Brunson
Chris Jefferies

playing big roles off the bench.

How does that not look like the worst team in the league?

So it's clear all of our hopes were pinned on two 21 year-olds and a 23 year old who were never really coached all that well, and had never put together an entire season where they did anything but ride the pine for the majority of it.

The expecations were ****ed up. And because of it we're going to see the rebuilding plan chopped up and flushed down the toliet in haste because of those messed up expectations.

It's obvious this year should have been another development year. But you can't sell tickets and steal money from Bulls fans by telling fans that.

We were lied to. We've been lied to. Yeah, yell about Curry, Chandler, and Crawford. But don't forget to yell about Reinsdorf and this joke of an organization the loudest.

This organization dismantled the greatest team ever...for this? Who wouldn't have preffered to watch the Bulls stay together for another 2-3 years and see what happened?
the bulls did give us a raw deal, jamal eddy and tyson are all babies!! how can you say these diaper wearers can win us any games? the bulls organization took us for fools based on 20 meaningless games at the end of the season :( :mad:
 

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Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!


1 Working 40 hours a week at a restaurant to pay for my 21 hour classload for my double-major undergraduate degree.

2 In fact, yes, at the rec center on Campus. Also competing with older and more mature musician's for gigs (I'm a bass-trombonist) in the local symphonies, brass quintets, and jazz bands to help supplement both my wallet and my resume.

3 No. My "Nazi's" were named Fraschillo, Hofacre, Zaninelli, and Jerome. They were ready to tear me a new @-hole if I didn't perform to my best standard every rehearsal and performance. Fortunately, I am left with still only one @-hole because I was even more demanding of myself than they were of me. After all, while my success or failure measured little in their reputations, it mattered a lot for my future career.

4 Cry me a river. "Please don't pay me millions and then expect me to perform my best". That's a problem I'm sorry to say that I've never had.

The only fault management has in the Eddy Curry fiasco is having expectations of the kid. Only reason they look like idiots is because he has not met those expectations.
Wynn, EXCELLENT POST!!!!
 

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Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!


1 Working 40 hours a week at a restaurant to pay for my 21 hour classload for my double-major undergraduate degree.

2 In fact, yes, at the rec center on Campus. Also competing with older and more mature musician's for gigs (I'm a bass-trombonist) in the local symphonies, brass quintets, and jazz bands to help supplement both my wallet and my resume.

3 No. My "Nazi's" were named Fraschillo, Hofacre, Zaninelli, and Jerome. They were ready to tear me a new @-hole if I didn't perform to my best standard every rehearsal and performance. Fortunately, I am left with still only one @-hole because I was even more demanding of myself than they were of me. After all, while my success or failure measured little in their reputations, it mattered a lot for my future career.

4 Cry me a river. "Please don't pay me millions and then expect me to perform my best". That's a problem I'm sorry to say that I've never had.

The only fault management has in the Eddy Curry fiasco is having expectations of the kid. Only reason they look like idiots is because he has not met those expectations.
Wynn, well done, lad.

This excuse making stuff has to stop...really. I, for one, have no tolerance for the "poor Eddy" bandwagon. While I agree that he's got a lot of people counting on him, as Super Chicken used to say, "you knew the job was dangerous when you took it."

The expectations for Curry this season weren't made out of whole cloth. They were based on what we saw last season, particularly late last season. It was reasonable to believe that a 20 year old Curry would get even better over the offseason.

THE EXPECTATIONS THAT CURRY WOULD BE A REAL LIVE NBA CENTER THIS SEASON WEREN'T FOOLISH OR UNREASONABLE.

It isn't all Curry's fault...but it's a whole lot Eddy's fault.

You've let us down, Eddy.
 

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It is pretty interesting. We have two #4 picks who at times last year dominated, but overall were pretty inconsistent. One is 25 and the other is 21. Based simply on last year's play, one could make an argument for either player being the guy who would carry us to the playoffs this year.

Neither player has been a good player this season, but the 21 year-old certainly has been much, much better than the 25 year-old. (Note that the 25 year-old did suffer an injury, but he also has more experience than the 21 year-old.)

Interestingly given this scenario the weight of the franchise has been laid at the feet of the 21 year-old (and his 23 year-old buddy who has become our leading scorer), whereas the 25 year-old has become little more than an afterthought.

Don't pretend that this is not all about unrealistic expectations that we all made, including me.

Hinrich and Fizer combined have more overall basketball experience than Crawford and Curry and were picked in about the same places in their respective drafts. In terms of overall production this year, I would say that Crawford and Curry combined have been about equal to Hinrich and Fizer combined. Yet because there is more variance in the performance of Crawford and Curry, we heap the 150% of the blame on Crawford and Curry and -50% of the blame on Hinrich and Fizer.

It is hard to understand how that is possible without people formining wildly unrealistic expectations. And I put myself in this group.
 

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Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
It is pretty interesting. We have two #4 picks who at times last year dominated, but overall were pretty inconsistent. One is 25 and the other is 21. Based simply on last year's play, one could make an argument for either player being the guy who would carry us to the playoffs this year.

Neither player has been a good player this season, but the 21 year-old certainly has been much, much better than the 25 year-old. (Note that the 25 year-old did suffer an injury, but he also has more experience than the 21 year-old.)

Interestingly given this scenario the weight of the franchise has been laid at the feet of the 21 year-old (and his 23 year-old buddy who has become our leading scorer), whereas the 25 year-old has become little more than an afterthought.

Don't pretend that this is not all about unrealistic expectations that we all made, including me.
NC, I have loads of respect for your knowledge and opinions. You offer some perspective here. However, the truth is that Curry's success has always been critical to the Bulls long-term plan, while Fizer's success has always been "gravy."

Because Curry was going to be the Bulls' future post presence, they traded Brand for Chandler. Because Curry was going to be the Bulls' center for next 10+ years, the Bulls concluded that they couldn't/shouldn't pay Miller what it would take to keep him and included Miller in the Indy trade. With Chandler as the projected power forward of the future, Fizer's importance immediately took a dive.

Net, Bulls' management never based other moves on Fizer's projected success, but based CRITICAL moves on Curry's.

Hinrich and Fizer combined have more overall basketball experience than Crawford and Curry and were picked in about the same places in their respective drafts. In terms of overall production this year, I would say that Crawford and Curry combined have been about equal to Hinrich and Fizer combined. Yet because there is more variance in the performance of Crawford and Curry, we heap the 150% of the blame on Crawford and Curry and -50% of the blame on Hinrich and Fizer.

It is hard to understand how that is possible without people formining wildly unrealistic expectations. And I put myself in this group.
1) The Hinrich-Fizer and Crawford-Curry combinations are somewhat arbitrary, based only on their relative draft positions. Let's face it, Fizer's pretty much a lost cause at this point, and tag-teaming him with any other player is an albatross.

2) Personally, I never had high expectations for Crawford or Hinrich. I had some expectations for Fizer, but have long since given them up (I was encouraged by Fizer's play late last season, but still saw the obvious holes). Curry's the one who fooled me, and I DON'T CONSIDER MY EXPECTATIONS FOR HIM THIS SEASON TO BE "WILDLY UNREALISTIC."

Let's quit kidding ourselves, for whatever reasons, Curry was a better player late last season than he's been this season. For a 20-21 year old player, going backwards is a VERY BAD thing.

It's happened and we have to deal with it, but I won't make excuses for it. A whole lot is riding on Curry's development and he's let his/our team down. Period.
 

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Originally posted by <b>transplant</b>!
NC, I have loads of respect for your knowledge and opinions. You offer some perspective here. However, the truth is that Curry's success has always been critical to the Bulls long-term plan, while Fizer's success has always been "gravy."

Because Curry was going to be the Bulls' future post presence, they traded Brand for Chandler. Because Curry was going to be the Bulls' center for next 10+ years, the Bulls concluded that they couldn't/shouldn't pay Miller what it would take to keep him and included Miller in the Indy trade. With Chandler as the projected power forward of the future, Fizer's importance immediately took a dive.

Net, Bulls' management never based other moves on Fizer's projected success, but based CRITICAL moves on Curry's.

1) The Hinrich-Fizer and Crawford-Curry combinations are somewhat arbitrary, based only on their relative draft positions. Let's face it, Fizer's pretty much a lost cause at this point, and tag-teaming him with any other player is an albatross.

2) Personally, I never had high expectations for Crawford or Hinrich. I had some expectations for Fizer, but have long since given them up (I was encouraged by Fizer's play late last season, but still saw the obvious holes). Curry's the one who fooled me, and I DON'T CONSIDER MY EXPECTATIONS FOR HIM THIS SEASON TO BE "WILDLY UNREALISTIC."

Let's quit kidding ourselves, for whatever reasons, Curry was a better player late last season than he's been this season. For a 20-21 year old player, going backwards is a VERY BAD thing.

It's happened and we have to deal with it, but I won't make excuses for it. A whole lot is riding on Curry's development and he's let his/our team down. Period.
In a lot of ways this post is supportive of what I posted. Most of the evidence you cite about Curry versus Fizer is based upon expectations rather than any extrapolation from performance last season. If folks had been hyping Fizer all along rather than Curry, I suspect that Fizer would be the one who would be shouldering the bulk of the blame.

Young players often do not follow a linear path of improvement. Curry probably is playing a bit better than he was at this time last year, even though he clearly is not as effective as he was at the end of last year. That's not really progress, but it is not the end of the world either.

I agree that a lot is riding on Curry's development, but if we thought a lot was riding on Brunson's development, it wouldn't all of a sudden make him a better player. Same thing with Curry, especially if we suck every last bit of confidence out of him.
 

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Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
In a lot of ways this post is supportive of what I posted. Most of the evidence you cite about Curry versus Fizer is based upon expectations rather than any extrapolation from performance last season. If folks had been hyping Fizer all along rather than Curry, I suspect that Fizer would be the one who would be shouldering the bulk of the blame.
NC,

You have a point, but it's not just the fan's expectations. It's been the expectations of the Bulls GMs (and certainly Cartwright's stated expectations, too.) Transplant did a great job in showing the consequences of those inflated expecations - the Brand and Miller trades.
 

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Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
NC,

You have a point, but it's not just the fan's expectations. It's been the expectations of the Bulls GMs (and certainly Cartwright's stated expectations, too.) Transplant did a great job in showing the consequences of those inflated expecations - the Brand and Miller trades.
I agree entirely. Our expectations are fueled partly by what we see on the floor, but a lot of it comes from what we hear from coaches, players, and front office folks.
 

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I'll say this: Curry has been in the league for 3 years. Yes he's only 21, but he's been in the league for 3 years. Something should have clicked by now. He shouldn't still be taking one step foward and two steps back.
 

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Originally posted by <b>dsouljah9</b>!
I'll say this: Curry has been in the league for 4 years. Yes he's only 21, but he's been in the league for 4 years. Something should have clicked by now. He shouldn't still be taking one step foward and two steps back.
2.5 years so far. well come the allstar break it'll be 2.5
 
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