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Discussion Starter #1
I'd like an actual citable news source that shows Othella Harrington and Malik Allen have team options on their contracts. I've seen several guys say this, but it appears to me that people are making (common sense) assumptions about what "must" be true because it'd be dumb to sign those guys to multi-year deals going into our big cap space summer. Well, Patricia's salaries are usually pretty accurate, and I don't see anything to suggest a team option.

Chicago Bulls Date # of total
Player.................... signed...years salary..... FA
Malik Allen .............. 09/02/05 3 $05.4 million '08
Othella Harrington .... 8/24/05 3 $10.2 million '08
 

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Mikedc said:
I'd like an actual citable news source that shows Othella Harrington and Malik Allen have team options on their contracts. I've seen several guys say this, but it appears to me that people are making (common sense) assumptions about what "must" be true because it'd be dumb to sign those guys to multi-year deals going into our big cap space summer. Well, Patricia's salaries are usually pretty accurate, and I don't see anything to suggest a team option.

Chicago Bulls Date # of total
Player.................... signed...years salary..... FA
Malik Allen .............. 09/02/05 3 $05.4 million '08
Othella Harrington .... 8/24/05 3 $10.2 million '08
Hoopshype seems to think they have only one year deals, and they don't list any 06-07 options of any sort:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

In general, I'd definitely trust Patricia over Hoopshype.
 

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Mikedc said:
I'd like an actual citable news source that shows Othella Harrington and Malik Allen have team options on their contracts. I've seen several guys say this, but it appears to me that people are making (common sense) assumptions about what "must" be true because it'd be dumb to sign those guys to multi-year deals going into our big cap space summer. Well, Patricia's salaries are usually pretty accurate, and I don't see anything to suggest a team option.

Chicago Bulls Date # of total
Player.................... signed...years salary..... FA
Malik Allen .............. 09/02/05 3 $05.4 million '08
Othella Harrington .... 8/24/05 3 $10.2 million '08
I remember reading the articles and say othella's was a one-year $3million first year, with a TEAM option and same with malik allen

the bulls just front-loaded othella's contract for this year so that they could resign him cheaper next year after getting FAs
 

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Well I don't remember any Chicago paper being very concrete with the Allen signing. However, all of them had Othella's deal as the 1 year guaranteed, 2nd year team option contract that everyone talks about. None of them seemed to have different reports on that.

Patricia does do a good job with her stuff, but you can only go on what you read in the papers. Most salary lists will be a little different from one another.
 

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I'm pretty sure both are 1-year guarenteed. I feel like the Tribune, Sun Times, and/or Daily Herald stated this at one time or another. Wish I could find the link, but this must've been 2-3 months ago.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Guys... you're all saying "I remember" reading this, but I'm looking for something a bit more definitive. Not that I don't trust you all, but lots of times the newspapers themselves are just speculating and you have to read closely to notice.
 

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Mikedc said:
Guys... you're all saying "I remember" reading this, but I'm looking for something a bit more definitive. Not that I don't trust you all, but lots of times the newspapers themselves are just speculating and you have to read closely to notice.
"actual citable news source"

Exactly.

You know, I remember all of us talking a long time ago as if Paxson called Curry and Chandler "the cornerstones of the franchise" and I cannot find an actual citable news source where he ever said it. The sportswriteres themselves called them the cornerstones, but no quote directly attributable to Pax. Now he may have said it and the sportswriters just write stuff like "curry and chandler have been dubbed the cornerstones..." but it's not the same thing as an actual citable news source.
 

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DaBullz said:
"actual citable news source"

Exactly.
RealGM has Allen listed as an '06 team option. Admittedly, that is not an "actual citable news source."

I did a Google news search (as Mike probably did as well before posting the inquiry, and a bunch of us did before responding) and found nothing helpful about Allen or Harrington's contracts.

However, I also did a Google news search with the terms NBA/contract/team/option and didn't get any hits whatsoever discussing team options for any player's contract.

So I'm not sure if the lack of news sources does anything to prove or disprove the contract terms for Malik and Othella.
 

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TomBoerwinkle#1 said:
RealGM has Allen listed as an '06 team option. Admittedly, that is not an "actual citable news source."

I did a Google news search (as Mike probably did as well before posting the inquiry, and a bunch of us did before responding) and found nothing helpful about Allen or Harrington's contracts.

However, I also did a Google news search with the terms NBA/contract/team/option and didn't get any hits whatsoever discussing team options for any player's contract.

So I'm not sure if the lack of news sources does anything to prove or disprove the contract terms for Malik and Othella.
FWIW, I find a lot of stories about the signing of Allen, but all say "terms were not disclosed"

However, for Songaila, I did find this:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/bulls/transactions.html

Sep 23, 2005 Darius Songaila - Signed/FA - Two-year contract, plyr option on 2nd yr
 

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Mikedc said:
Guys... you're all saying "I remember" reading this, but I'm looking for something a bit more definitive. Not that I don't trust you all, but lots of times the newspapers themselves are just speculating and you have to read closely to notice.
Are you completely disregarding Hoopshype? At least I provided a link.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Darius Miles Davis said:
Are you completely disregarding Hoopshype? At least I provided a link.
Nope, but if you look at it, Hoopshype has "blanks", not "zeros" filled in for Harrington and Allen in 06/07, which in their scheme of things seems means they aren't sure what's going on but they're fairly sure a contract is in place. For example, you see the same thing for Tyson - they've got blanks, rather than zeros, for the length of his contract but they don't say for how much, I guess because they aren't confident they know.

I think TomBoerwinkle#1's got the goods on Allen's deal becuase my impression is that RealGM actually has a deal with the league to get this information. Hence, I think we can be pretty sure that Allen's deal features a team option to let us unload him (thank god).

However... the fact that RealGM has this but does not have Harrington listed is further evidence, I think, that the Bulls actually gave him a 3 year deal guaranteed deal (in the trade checker he's also listed as having 2 years remaining on his contract).
 

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Mikedc said:
Guys... you're all saying "I remember" reading this, but I'm looking for something a bit more definitive. Not that I don't trust you all, but lots of times the newspapers themselves are just speculating and you have to read closely to notice.
Are you completely disregarding Hoopshype? At least I provided a link.
 

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Mikedc said:
Nope, but if you look at it, Hoopshype has "blanks", not "zeros" filled in for Harrington and Allen in 06/07, which in their scheme of things seems means they aren't sure what's going on but they're fairly sure a contract is in place. For example, you see the same thing for Tyson - they've got blanks, rather than zeros, for the length of his contract but they don't say for how much, I guess because they aren't confident they know.

I think TomBoerwinkle#1's got the goods on Allen's deal becuase my impression is that RealGM actually has a deal with the league to get this information. Hence, I think we can be pretty sure that Allen's deal features a team option to let us unload him (thank god).

However... the fact that RealGM has this but does not have Harrington listed is further evidence, I think, that the Bulls actually gave him a 3 year deal guaranteed deal.
FWIW, I think hoopshype, no matter how dubious one might consider it as a source, is a veritable citable news source. This isn't directed toward you, but just my belief: when you cite a source, it's up to the reader to decide how "quality" that source is.

The blanks could also indicate that there's no obligation on the bulls' part to pay them anything, but the contract goes that long if they decide to keep the players around.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
DaBullz said:
FWIW, I think hoopshype, no matter how dubious one might consider it as a source, is a veritable citable news source. This isn't directed toward you, but just my belief: when you cite a source, it's up to the reader to decide how "quality" that source is.

The blanks could also indicate that there's no obligation on the bulls' part to pay them anything, but the contract goes that long if they decide to keep the players around.
They could, but my point is not that Hoopshype isn't "accurate enough", but that it doesn't seem to say one way or the other. The blanks could indicate what you say, but it would be inconsistent with their use of blanks in other places, a la Tyson. Thus, for this purpose at least, it really doesn't shed any light on the question I want an answer to.
 

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Mikedc said:
They could, but my point is not that Hoopshype isn't "accurate enough", but that it doesn't seem to say one way or the other. The blanks could indicate what you say, but it would be inconsistent with their use of blanks in other places, a la Tyson. Thus, for this purpose at least, it really doesn't shed any light on the question I want an answer to.
Personally, I think it's a poor source. Something like a trib, sun-times, or other major news outlet (SI, ESPN, etc.) would be quite convincing.
 

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DaBullz said:
Personally, I think it's a poor source. Something like a trib, sun-times, or other major news outlet (SI, ESPN, etc.) would be quite convincing.
Bottom line: No source on this stuff is definetive.

IMHO, RealGM is most concerned with their trade checker working. Therefore, at this point an option next year is not an issue. Who knows, maybe the Bulls lose their option if the players play extroudanarily well compared to the expectations. Big O = 15ppg or Malik Allen = 6ppg.

Again, I would be shocked if Paxson doesn't have an option on Harrington's deal next year. He is an idiot if he doesn't.
 

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DaBullz said:
Personally, I think it's a poor source. Something like a trib, sun-times, or other major news outlet (SI, ESPN, etc.) would be quite convincing.

Well unless someone wants to pay the fee for digging into the archives, we're not going to get a trib, suntimes, daily herald or whatnot.

This was the link to it if anyone cares to :raised_ey

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp?id=85081

And unless it's a major player, sites like Sportsline and such (and often even ESPN) don't usually tell the details either. They just link up the boring AP story with the usual "terms were not disclosed" bit. You're likely going to have to go to the team's local paper to find those details and as I found out this summer when I did my own player salaries (yes I know, I'm a nerd), sometimes you can't even get the info there.

I know "I remember" isn't good enough here, but I know that there was never even a printable story saying Othella had 2 guaranteed years after everything was done there. Every Chicago source had it as a team option for the 2nd year.

As for Allen, there were different reports from the start. For all Pax talked about the summer of '06 (even mentioning before free agency began we would bring Othella back "if the terms were right), I, as should anyone, find it extremely hard to believe he got 2 guaranteed years.
 
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