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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is my premise. Every team hates their back-up centers, but that is no reason to get rid of the back-up center that we hate, just so we can pick up another back-up center that we might hate even more. At least no one can argue that Bags is soft. How many times have we heard Bulls' fans complain about their centers on that quality?

Here is Bagaric compared to the five centers closest to him in age from youngest to oldest.

Samuel Dalembert: 6'11" 250 lbs, #26 pick of 2001 draft
5.2 mpg, 1.5 pts, 2.0 rb, 0.4 blk, 0.9 fls, 0.4 to, 44.0% FG

Dalibor Bagaric: 7'1" 270 lbs, #24 pick in 2000 draft
12.8 mpg, 3.7 pts, 3.2 rb, 0.5 blk, 2.2 fls, 0.9 to, 40.4% FG

Bruno Sundov: 7'2" 246 lbs, #35 pick in 1998 draft
4.0 mpg, 1.5 pts, 1.0 rb, 0.1 blk, 0.7 fls, 0.2 to, 40.0% FG

Primoz Brezec: 7'1" 243 lbs, #27 pick in 2000 draft
7.3 mpg, 2.0 pts, 1.3 rb, 0.3 blk, 1.3 fls, 0.3 to, 48.3% FG

Brendan Haywood: 7'0" 266 lbs, #20 pick in 2001 draft
20.4 mpg, 5.1 pts, 5.2 rb, 1.5 blk, 2.5 fls, 0.5 to, 49.3% FG

Joel Pryzbilla: 7'1" 255 lbs, #9 pick in 2000 draft
15.9 mpg, 2.7 pts, 4.0 rb, 1.7 blk, 2.8 fls, 0.6 to, 49.7% FG

Of this group, Bagaric is the second youngest and the second latest pick in the draft, yet I would argue that only Haywood has clearly distinguished himself as better than Bagaric. Bagaric may be bad, but there a lot of bad centers in the league, so get used to it.
 

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Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
Here is my premise. Every team hates their back-up centers, but that is no reason to get rid of the back-up center that we hate, just so we can pick up another back-up center that we might hate even more. At least no one can argue that Bags is soft. How many times have we heard Bulls' fans complain about their centers on that quality?

Here is Bagaric compared to the five centers closest to him in age from youngest to oldest.

Samuel Dalembert: 6'11" 250 lbs, #26 pick of 2001 draft
5.2 mpg, 1.5 pts, 2.0 rb, 0.4 blk, 0.9 fls, 0.4 to, 44.0% FG

Dalibor Bagaric: 7'1" 270 lbs, #24 pick in 2000 draft
12.8 mpg, 3.7 pts, 3.2 rb, 0.5 blk, 2.2 fls, 0.9 to, 40.4% FG

Bruno Sundov: 7'2" 246 lbs, #35 pick in 1998 draft
4.0 mpg, 1.5 pts, 1.0 rb, 0.1 blk, 0.7 fls, 0.2 to, 40.0% FG

Primoz Brezec: 7'1" 243 lbs, #27 pick in 2000 draft
7.3 mpg, 2.0 pts, 1.3 rb, 0.3 blk, 1.3 fls, 0.3 to, 48.3% FG

Brendan Haywood: 7'0" 266 lbs, #20 pick in 2001 draft
20.4 mpg, 5.1 pts, 5.2 rb, 1.5 blk, 2.5 fls, 0.5 to, 49.3% FG

Joel Pryzbilla: 7'1" 255 lbs, #9 pick in 2000 draft
15.9 mpg, 2.7 pts, 4.0 rb, 1.7 blk, 2.8 fls, 0.6 to, 49.7% FG

Of this group, Bagaric is the second youngest and the second latest pick in the draft, yet I would argue that only Haywood has clearly distinguished himself as better than Bagaric. Bagaric may be bad, but there a lot of bad centers in the league, so get used to it.

Just because other teams have crap centers doesn't mean we should be "ok" with having one too. I'd much rather have a Corie Blount type back-up every year that's really a power forward than Dalibor. I'd even play Lonny Baxter at center before putting in Bags.

And I would buy into the whole "patience" argument if the guy had talent and actually showed some potential. For example guys like Jermaine O'Neal when he was in Portland, even Diop last year, if you looked purely at their "numbers" they would seem to suck bad. People were ripping on them for being busts. But when I watched those guys play I actually said to myself , "these guys have skills, it's only a matter of time before they become a force etc"... But whenever I see Bags the only feeling I get is "man this guy sucks". I can't even picture him EVER becoming decent when I watch him play.
 

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Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
Here is my premise. Every team hates their back-up centers, but that is no reason to get rid of the back-up center that we hate, just so we can pick up another back-up center that we might hate even more. At least no one can argue that Bags is soft. How many times have we heard Bulls' fans complain about their centers on that quality?

Here is Bagaric compared to the five centers closest to him in age from youngest to oldest.

Samuel Dalembert: 6'11" 250 lbs, #26 pick of 2001 draft
5.2 mpg, 1.5 pts, 2.0 rb, 0.4 blk, 0.9 fls, 0.4 to, 44.0% FG

Dalibor Bagaric: 7'1" 270 lbs, #24 pick in 2000 draft
12.8 mpg, 3.7 pts, 3.2 rb, 0.5 blk, 2.2 fls, 0.9 to, 40.4% FG

Bruno Sundov: 7'2" 246 lbs, #35 pick in 1998 draft
4.0 mpg, 1.5 pts, 1.0 rb, 0.1 blk, 0.7 fls, 0.2 to, 40.0% FG

Primoz Brezec: 7'1" 243 lbs, #27 pick in 2000 draft
7.3 mpg, 2.0 pts, 1.3 rb, 0.3 blk, 1.3 fls, 0.3 to, 48.3% FG

Brendan Haywood: 7'0" 266 lbs, #20 pick in 2001 draft
20.4 mpg, 5.1 pts, 5.2 rb, 1.5 blk, 2.5 fls, 0.5 to, 49.3% FG

Joel Pryzbilla: 7'1" 255 lbs, #9 pick in 2000 draft
15.9 mpg, 2.7 pts, 4.0 rb, 1.7 blk, 2.8 fls, 0.6 to, 49.7% FG

Of this group, Bagaric is the second youngest and the second latest pick in the draft, yet I would argue that only Haywood has clearly distinguished himself as better than Bagaric. Bagaric may be bad, but there a lot of bad centers in the league, so get used to it.
You can get used to it IF you like, I choose to be unimpressed with any aspect of his game. he moves like herman munster and makes stupid senseless fouls at inopportune times of the game. His FG % is the lowest of all those you listed he is among the leaders in fouls. I am NOT impressed one iota of his game. I would rather have ostertag(and i hate that pasty soft pig)than bags..sorry, my preference and choice! LOL:devil:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Be careful what you wish for!

There are lots of years when Corie Blount-type back-ups require $20M-$30M to be signed, so don't count on deals like Blount being available every year. Think about Amaechi, Booth, Potapenko, White, Ostertag, Knight, and the list could go on and on and on with centers making several million a year.

And remember how we thought Oakley was going to be a great back-up last year. Older guys can be risky as well.

Lots of us got really excited about the magical April that Crawford had last year. Bagaric had a pretty good nine games as well.

17.2 mpg, 5.3 pts, 4.4 rb, 1.0 blk, 2.3 fls, 1.2 to, 54.3% FG

In my opinion, this is pretty decent.

It also compares pretty favorably with this guy's April stats in 8 games.

16.4 mpg, 2.6 pts, 3.4 rb, 0.1 blk, 2.9 fls, 1.0 to, 29.0% FG

Guess who that player is. None other than Corie Blount.

And how about this guy's April stats in 8 games.

9.4 mpg, 0.6 pts, 2.6 rb, 1.1 blk, 2.0 fls, 0.4 to, 40.0% FG

Guess who that player is. None other than Greg Ostertag.
 

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Good try NCBullsFan but I am afraid that most people don't understand what an NBA Center does or why they are there.

It would seem they have never looked down the rosters of all 29 teams and seen who the first, second and thrid string centers are and examined and compared their stats They would probably seen a non achieving player with speed and Hops like Gerald Wallce over a real center.

They don't stop to question why every NBA team has at least two when the stats outside of Shaq and maybe 10 or 12 starters look so bad. They don't understand the physical presence in the lane on defense, the ability to set picks on offense, the deterrence that kind of size and strength will do to benefit a team while showing little on the score boards.

Thanks for trying, but so many fans who otherwise seem somewhat knowledgeable about basketball just don't seem to begin to get why you need a center, what they can do, and how the lack of grace has nothing to do with bottom line effectiveness.

Not to mention how they develop over years and get better much later in life than other NBA players. Maybe they think they are delivered by the stork down some team's chimney.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Hey, Song, I don't know about your part of Chicago, but here in North Carolina storks aren't big enough to carry around 250 pound centers.

If I lived where you do, I would definitely buy an SUV. I would be scared to death one of those storks might drop a center right on top of me. Heck, if it was Shaq, even an SUV wouldn't protect me.

:laugh:
 

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First things first. DBags gets unfairly criticized for some things he really shouldn't. For example, the fact he's foreign, has a weird name, doesn't speak English well, etc. That's garbage and I've heard some venom like this on this board already, which is sad. But I've chosen to take the high road and examine his game, work ethic, production, etc. I hope everyone else would as well.

This being said..
My beef w/ DBags started about 10-15 games in Cartwright's regime. I forget exactly which game it was, but Dolly was pissed about not getting into a game until the 4th quarter (which happened to be junk time). So he openly pouted and in front of a national audience embarrassed himself and the Bulls franchise. That was clearly unprofessional. Fortunately the ever-patient Cartwright lectured him and the issue seemed to be resolved.

I guess from then on I watched w/ a more critical eye. Sure his horrible 18 foot jumpers, slow feet, hacks on D, and other things didn't make me happy. It seemed like he carried an attitude of being better than he actually was. But that's just my take on him after watching his games. Also, the sorry fact is that Curry is still lost in some regards on D and he gets into frequent foul trouble. But his backup (DBags) gets into worse foul trouble. Ouch. So nothing against DBags, but we really do need a backup who plays a little D and can stay in the game for more than 2 minutes before picking up a couple quick fouls.

NC I like the stats you shared about backup centers. But the BIG DIFFERENCE I see with this comparision, and why it doesn't really work, is that Dalibor doesn't really do anything well. Period. He's shown in two years that he's a big body and little else. Pryzbilla and Haywood are shotblockers. Dalembert is an active body who sat behind Mutombo. Sundov sat behind Foster/Miller. Primoz (who I believe is a Pacer) is in a similar position w/ Sundov. Essentially I am saying ... to be a worthwhile 'project' you need to show that you do one thing well or have someone in front of you that does. So with Curry still developing, its a huge risk to give major minutes to a 'project' center who has a hard time playing the NBA game.

That's my two cents. Holla.

VD
 

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Bagaric is just 22 and doing one thing well isn't good enough o make a decent NBA center and who you play behind doesn't make you worthwhile one way or another.

That game Bagaric quit on the team seemed to be a turning point in his effort last year and his improvement can not and should not be ignored.

Still he is only 22 and most NBA Centers peak around 30 or shortly thereafter unlike any other position. I don't expect anything great from him this year, but he should continue to improve.

I don't expect many opinions here to change, but pretty and effective at Center are two very different things.
 

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Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
Hey, Song, I don't know about your part of Chicago, but here in North Carolina storks aren't big enough to carry around 250 pound centers.

If I lived where you do, I would definitely buy an SUV. I would be scared to death one of those storks might drop a center right on top of me. Heck, if it was Shaq, even an SUV wouldn't protect me.

:laugh:
lol
 

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One of the things that really disappoints me about Bags is that I watched him in LA Summer League last year and he showed something. Another reason I now take summer league with a grain of salt.

In any case, he showed toughness and offensive touch. He didn't have anything but "project" on him, but he looked intriguing. I would be fine with him if we weren't so thin at B/U C. I hate to move Chandler over to give Curry a break or due to fouls. Blount is to small. So, basically our choices are Bags or Chandler.......Gotta go with TC.

It just seems that Bags is slow at everything. Slow on D, slow on O, you can't teach size, and you can't teach instinct.

Projects should be counted on the way we may need to count on Bags this year.


Go Bulls
 

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The guy stinks. He shows no signs of developing at all. Bagaric makes Luc Longley look like Shaq. He should go.

With Bagaric and Curry you have 2 centers who are projects. You need a back up to Curry who can at least not pick up fouls every 2 minutes. Bagaric has had a few years to get the stiffness out of his joints and the cement out of his shoes and has shown nothing. He has also shown to be a pouter, an embarrassment to the team (the game last year he acted like a child, a rare game the Bulls won easily), a goon(several moronic flagrant fouls) and a moron(played a game with his shorts on backwards). He is more of a cartoon character than a player. We don't need him taking up a roster spot just because he is big. At that position we need to find a servicable veteran who at least won't embarrass himself and has some respect with the refs. Don't we have enough projects on the roster? I'd sign someone like Kevin Willis for a cheap price instead.

Do some people really, REALLY think that Bagaric is going to develop?
 

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Originally posted by <b>sinkingship</b>!
The guy stinks. He shows no signs of developing at all. Bagaric makes Luc Longley look like Shaq. He should go.

With Bagaric and Curry you have 2 centers who are projects. You need a back up to Curry who can at least not pick up fouls every 2 minutes. Bagaric has had a few years to get the stiffness out of his joints and the cement out of his shoes and has shown nothing. He has also shown to be a pouter, an embarrassment to the team (the game last year he acted like a child, a rare game the Bulls won easily), a goon(several moronic flagrant fouls) and a moron(played a game with his shorts on backwards). He is more of a cartoon character than a player. We don't need him taking up a roster spot just because he is big. At that position we need to find a servicable veteran who at least won't embarrass himself and has some respect with the refs. Don't we have enough projects on the roster? I'd sign someone like Kevin Willis for a cheap price instead.

Do some people really, REALLY think that Bagaric is going to develop?
Yes you eternal optimist,
 

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Eternal "realist". Why sing affirmations and live in a fantasy world? My opinion is that Bagaric is not NBA material and we don't need him.

It is not a question of being positive or negative. I like to look at things as they are. We have won 66 total games in four combined seasons, so for me to just jump for joy over everything is not very realistic.

I don't see any positives regarding Bagaric.
 

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Originally posted by <b>sinkingship</b>!
Eternal "realist". Why sing affirmations and live in a fantasy world? My opinion is that Bagaric is not NBA material and we don't need him.

It is not a question of being positive or negative. I like to look at things as they are. We have won 66 total games in four combined seasons, so for me to just jump for joy over everything is not very realistic.

I don't see any positives regarding Bagaric.
Nice post.

Many Bulls fans are living in the post dynasty bubble, thinking that since we won 6 championships in 8 seasons, we are entitled to compete or win more very soon. That is so far from the truth. The road is long, and the Bulls have thus far been the worst 1 or 2 teams in the NBA for the past 4 seasons.

DBags is just another classic example of a Chicago Bull player that 1) shouldn't be in the NBA, 2) fans actually start to admire for whichever reason (stats, hard work, potential, etc) and 3) will be out of the NBA as soon as his contract is up. Other 'classic' examples include: El-Amin, Ruffin, Simpkins, etc. I mean these guys STARTED many games for the Bulls and none are in the NBA now. The same fate awaits DBags in 1 years time.

VD
 

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If Bags is being picked on, it's because Krause put the kid in a position that he never should have been in.

If Krause keeps Bags on the roster as the 12th man or the taxi squad and hopes and prays that he develops some skills, that's fine by me. It's been correctly pointed out that many teams have such a project.

However, after the Miller trade and with Oakley AWOL, Bags was left as the backup center and in the rotation. This really destroyed any chance of the Bulls winning many games.

So if Blount is not the new backup center, then JK needs to go get one and return Bags to the 14th man. I'm sure this will get people to lighten up about Bags.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Do you guys even read the whole thread?

As a back-up last April, Bagaric played much, much better than the only two people folks in this thread have mentioned as possible alternatives - Corie Blount and Greg Ostertag.

If April doesn't count for Bagaric, then it shouldn't count for anyone else either, so we should never talk about what Crawford did in April or the fact that we won 4 of our last 6 games, games that Bagaric played a key role in.

And for those of you making a big deal about summer league, there were 9 games in April and only 6 summer league games.

If every player like Bags who is not "NBA material" was kicked out of the NBA, there would only be about 20 centers in the entire NBA. Go to any other board and see how many complaints posters have about THEIR centers. What we say about Bagaric is tame compared to what is said about a lot of other team's back-up centers. We need to get our heads out of the sand, and realize that back-up centers, as a rule, are bad.
 

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Re: Do you guys even read the whole thread?

Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
As a back-up last April, Bagaric played much, much better than the only two people folks in this thread have mentioned as possible alternatives - Corie Blount and Greg Ostertag.

If April doesn't count for Bagaric, then it shouldn't count for anyone else either, so we should never talk about what Crawford did in April or the fact that we won 4 of our last 6 games, games that Bagaric played a key role in.

And for those of you making a big deal about summer league, there were 9 games in April and only 6 summer league games.

If every player like Bags who is not "NBA material" was kicked out of the NBA, there would only be about 20 centers in the entire NBA. Go to any other board and see how many complaints posters have about THEIR centers. What we say about Bagaric is tame compared to what is said about a lot of other team's back-up centers. We need to get our heads out of the sand, and realize that back-up centers, as a rule, are bad.
Ya know, NC, I really, truly enjoy the posts from you where all these CBA's and MLE's(mid level exceptions)and obvious overall mindboggling mathematical skills you possess are included. However, in this what I would call a "trivial" post, concerning Bagaric, you, as I and everyone else, are entitled to our own opinions. This guy bagaric is, without a doubt, the sorriest, poorest, excuse for a handful of waste matter, not to mention NBA player. The ONLY reason he is NOT gone already is because KRAUSE cannot find any takers so he can erase the memory of this guy from the minds of those who KNOW Krause wanted him, plain and simple. WHAT skills has this guy got that have been improved on, OTHER than his ability to throw a good chop block on an opponent of half his size??:laugh: This guy is 7', and has a body nearly as wide as the lane, but can only manage to use it against guys with the physique of BJ Armstrong. We can find ANYONE who can use up all six of their fouls in 5 minutes of an NBA game. Heck, I will do it and I am only 220lbs!!! I hate Michael Ruffin but..(whispering now)....I would welcome him as a replacement for Bags!!!:rolleyes:

Chill out you Vomit-Bags supporters. This is just boredome idle chat...once the league starts we will all see what a great guy and player this tard is......:yes:
 

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Bagaric has shot 36% from the field and 55% from the line in his career. This is from a 7 footer who takes his shots near the basket. He is a foul magnet, he is slow, he pouts, and he played a game with his shorts on backwards. He stinks.

If there is a player in this league worse than Bagaric I would like to know who it is.

Rusty Larue would mop the floor with him one on one.

Lets get someone on the roster who can contribute as a back up to Curry. With Curry's age, foul troubles, and overall inexperienced and poor play at times we need a guy who can play more than half the game at center. Bagaric couldn't last half the game, and if he did you can bet the Bulls will be down by 25.

Blount is going to average a career high in minutes this year. Bagaric will spend most of his time on the sidelines in a cheap suit.
 

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I am literally laughing my butt off!!!

.....This is why...ROFLMFAO!!!


Originally posted by <b>sinkingship</b>!

He is a foul magnet, he is slow, he pouts, and he played a game with his shorts on backwards. He stinks.

Bagaric will spend most of his time on the sidelines in a cheap suit.
I laugh everytime I read that first line up above sink...thanks..I needed a good laugh!:laugh:

....oh, and I wholeheartedly agree.....:devil:
 
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