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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This post is NOT in anyway related to RobyG's "Ranking NBA Starters by Position" threads, but it is a little fun on the side. After having ranked the 3's, 4's, and 5's in the NBA, I though it would be fun to rank frontcourts. I know some of the SFs in the list are not really frontcourt players, but I am going to throw them in anyway to level the playing field. First I will post my updated lists of the 3 rankings, and then I will post my rankings of NBA frontcourts. Feel free to provide comments and give your own rankings!!!

SFs
1 KG
2 Matrix
3 Dirk
4 Peja
5 Hill
6 Jordan
7 Odom
8 Mash
9 Artest
10 Rose
11 Lewis
12 Pip
13 Kirilenko
14 Tim Thomas
15 Battier
16 Spree
17 Rich Jefferson
18 Fox
19 Murray
20 Big Dog
21 Van Horn
22 Bowen
23 Mo Pete
24 Griffin
25 Butler
26 Dunleavy
27 Skeeta
28 Curry
29 E Williams

PFs
1 Duncan
2 C Webb
3 Antoine
4 Big Ben
5 Sheed
6 K-Mart
7 Reef
8 O'Neal
9 Dyess
10 Brand
11 Jamison
12 Pau
13 Raef
14 Antonio Davis
15 Mailman
16 PJ Brown
17 Brian Grant
18 Horry
19 Chandler

20 Darius
21 Howard
22 Radman
23 Joe Smith
24 Popeye
25 Coleman
26 Mason
27 Garrity
28 Mo Talyor
29 Bo Outlaw

Cs
1 Shaq
2 Zo
3 Vlade
4 Kandi
5 Admiral
6 Brad Miller
7 Deke
8 Cliffy
9 Elden
10 T-Mac
11 Camby
12 Olajuwon
13 Dale Davis
14 Thomas
15 Ratliff
16 Nesterovic
17 Z
18 Jerome James
19 Vin
20 Wright
21 Curry
22 Yao
23 Big Jake
24 Pryzbilla
25 Ho Grant
26 Bradley
27 Dampier
28 Collins
29 White

NOW TOP FRONTCOURTS:

1 Sacramento (9 total) = these three guys are all versatile(best by far!!!)
2 LA Clippers (21 total) = young, athletic, and versatile
3 Indiana (23 total) = another young group that will gel
4 San Antonio (28 total) = twin towers + Kobe slower
5 Portland (30 total) = aging, but still solid
6 New Orleans (33 total) = have been together two full seasons
7 New Jersey (33 total) = can they work together?
8 LA Lakers (37 total) = Daddy + role players
9 New York (39 total) = health is a question
10 Minnesota (40 total) = Da Kid and crew
11 Detroit (40 total) = Big Ben and his merry men
12 Dallas (42 total) = tallest front-line
13 Atlanta (42 total) = Big Dog will be a nice addition
14 Miami (44 total) = good defense
15 Memphis (47 total) = rebounder and two of last year's lottery
16 Toronto (49 total) = health is a huge question mark
17 Chicago (50 total) = scorer and two more of last year's lottery
18 Boston (51 total) = pretty high for having worst SF
19 Seattle (51 total) = lotsa inexperience to go with youth
20 Phoenix (54 total) = Bo knows Big Jake's Matrix
21 Utah (56 total) = Mailman slipping, but still a leader
22 Philadelphia (56 total) = nobody left from Finals run
23 Cleveland (56 total) = undersized, but exciting
24 Orlando (57 total) = way small, but Grant Hill drinks Sprite
25 Denver (59 total) = could actually rise as they come together
26 Washington (59 total) = Jordan and his Jordan Aires
27 Milwaukee (64 total) = backcourt oriented team
28 Golden State (64 total) = they will get boards (maybe)
29 Houston (74 total) = weak 5; overpaid 4; out-of-position 3

There goes. Those numbers represented total from three lists. Enjoy!!!
 

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Orlando doesn't rate above last place with their front court. If Hill is back, you'd have them almost right, but no way is Garrity better than Outlaw. Garrity is the worst Power Forward in the league.

If Hill isn't there, they have Miller at sf and he is not any kind of a defender, like barely better than Garrity is at PF.

PS) The Laker front court should be higher, too. Horry is the perfect teammate for Shaq, as is Fox.
 

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K-martin better than Shareef are you crazy?Kmart
and his whole 14PPG 5RPG?That's nuts.A PF should
be able to get more than 5RPG.Besides,when I saw
us play NJ and Reef/Martin went one on one Martin
looked like a inferior player comparied to Shareef.

27PPG/7RPG/5.7APG/54%fg vs. Martin.Martin is a
good player,but he can't touch Shareef YET.Not
saying it isn't possible in the future.

How is Hill the 3rd best SF?He has barely even
played in two years.

Lamond Murray better than Glenn Robinson?Rick
Fox?Curry in the top 30?He averaged 4 points
a game.

Sorry I'd take Big Dog/Shareef/Theo over Curry/
Robinson/Wallace.I'd worry more about Stack
and the new Billups should be a really good
backcourt with the extra offense from the PG
position.Cliff Robinson is getting old and I
think the decline will show on him this year.
I think Rodney White will get more playing
time and produce.

Mashburn is better than Peja...better rebounder
and alot better passer.Monster Mash is a
very underrated player.Mash would destroy
Peja one on one.First of all he would back him
in the post and go right to work on Peja.

But it's your opinion.
 

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My rankings:

SF:
1)Kevin Garnett
2)Dirk Nowitski
3)Shawn Marion
4)Micheal Jordan
5)Jamal Mashburn
6)Lamar Odom
7)Peja
8)Jalen Rose
9)Sprewell
10)Richard Jefferson-Will be better than Big Dog this season
11)Glen Robinson
12)Rashard Lewis
13)Grant Hill
14)Shane Battier
15)Ron Artest
16)Tim Thomas
17)AK47
18)Keith Van Horn
19)Lamond Murray
20)Scottie Pippen

PF:

1)Tim Duncan
2)Chris Webber
3)Jermanine O'Neal
4)Antonio McDyess
5)Ben Wallace
6)Rasheed Wallace
7)Shareef Abdur Rahim
8)Antoine Walker-Really more of a SF cause he shoots the jumpers
9)Elton Brand
10)Kenyon Martin-Potential to move way up
11)Karl Malone
12)Pau Gasol
13)Antwan Jamison
14)Antonio Davis
15)Derrick Coleman
16)Brian Grant
17)Tyrone Hill
18)Robert Horry
19)Eddie Griffin
20)Chandler
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
Orlando doesn't rate above last place with their front court. If Hill is back, you'd have them almost right, but no way is Garrity better than Outlaw. Garrity is the worst Power Forward in the league.
Well, part of the prediction process is injuries. You are right. The position I put them in reflects the fact that I think Hill is finally healthy. I do think he will be back at about 75-85% of his former self (which would still be better than Lamar Odom right now IMO) and I do think the Magic are ranked well if that is true.

I don't think Garrity is the worst PF in the league. I think he does a good job of pulling big men out of the lane for Tracy to glide to the hoop. I think that very skill will be all the more important with a creator like Hill in the mix who can penetrate and dish. Defense is not his strong suit, but there are not that many dominant post players in the whole eastern conference, and he can hold his own with smaller 4's.

PS) The Laker front court should be higher, too. Horry is the perfect teammate for Shaq, as is Fox.
I was thinking they would be if I made a more accurate center list and put Shaq number 1 and my number two guy(ZO) at number 5 or 6 because Shaq fills up the first few spots. I mean people have been telling me I have Foz way too high and Horry too high as well. Shaq is already number one. What else can I do?

Originally posted by <b>Hotlantadude198</b>!

K-martin better than Shareef are you crazy?Kmart
and his whole 14PPG 5RPG?That's nuts.A PF should
be able to get more than 5RPG.Besides,when I saw
us play NJ and Reef/Martin went one on one Martin
looked like a inferior player comparied to Shareef.

27PPG/7RPG/5.7APG/54%fg vs. Martin.Martin is a
good player,but he can't touch Shareef YET.Not
saying it isn't possible in the future.
Martin is still growing up. He will need to do more offensively this season because his team traded two offense options for a defensive one. My post was about how I think the PFs will stand after next season, not how they are now. BTW Shareef averaged 21PPG/9RPG/3APG/46% and Martin averaged 15PPG/5RPG/3APG/46%. The only glaring difference is in points and rebounds and both will go up for Martin to make his team go. Reef's points will go down with the addition of Big Dog. I'm saying Martin will be better this season, IMO.

Curry in the top 30?He averaged 4 points
a game.
This post was about starters. He starts so he had to be in the top 29.

Mashburn is better than Peja...better rebounder
and alot better passer.Monster Mash is a
very underrated player.Mash would destroy
Peja one on one.First of all he would back him
in the post and go right to work on Peja.
Mashburn: 21.5PPG/6.1RPG/4.3APG/GAMES MISSED 42
Stojakovic: 21.2PPG/5.3RPG/2.5APG/GAMES MISSED 11

Well, on the surface, it looks like Mash is the better player when he's in the line up. The most telling stat between these two is this one, though, Sacramento's record in the first 21 games of the season that Webber missed when Bibby was still trying to find his way with a brand new offense and Peja had to lead 16-5. First place in the league. Mashburn has to share the ball with Baron, the assists with Baron and Wesley, and the rebounds with PJ and Jamal. Peja has to share the ball with literally everbody on the team (they all score), the assists with Vlade, Webber, and Bibby, and the rebounds with Webber, Vlade, and Christie (a solid rebounding guard).

Mash might back Peja down, but Peja's shots from behind that arc count for three instead of two.

Mash: 41%FG, 37%3P
Peja: 48%FG, 42%3P

Oh, yes this is my opinion.

I can't thank you enough for your response. You did an excelent job of making your points of contention clear. Come on guys, let's get some more posting!!!
 

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There are free throw line attempts(Which do matter)
and Reefs to the fouline more.Scoring and rebounds
should be enough.Almost twice as many rebounds
and 8PPG more.That's a pretty big difference esp
when you factor in Shareef gets double teamed on
a everytime he touches the ball basis and Martin
does not.Plus like I said,Martin looked severaly
inferior when the two teams played.

"
This post was about starters. He starts so he had to
be in the top 29."

Newble was a starter and averaged 9PPG/5RPG but
I wouldn't put him there.

Mash is more talented because he can hit the 3,
pass,rebound,postup,shoot the mid range jumper.
A 3pt shooter can easly be shutdown in a one on
one game.ESP considering Mash is likely quicker.

Peja is alot closer to Wally World and Allan Houston
a pretty much limited jump shooter.If a defender
looks to just put the clamps on him he can be shut
down.However,when Mash has his post game going
it's nearly impossible to stop him.Plus even though
neither are good defenders I think Mash is slighty
better.

But it's all in good fun anyway.I figured more people
would have a opinion on the thread=(

Have a nice day=)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Originally posted by <b>Hotlantadude198</b>!
There are free throw line attempts(Which do matter)
and Reefs to the fouline more.Scoring and rebounds
should be enough.Almost twice as many rebounds
and 8PPG more.That's a pretty big difference esp
when you factor in Shareef gets double teamed on
a everytime he touches the ball basis and Martin
does not.Plus like I said,Martin looked severaly
inferior when the two teams played.
Martin had very effective games in the playoffs this year(where Shareef has never been) against smaller, quicker players and basically held his own with the stronger players as well. You are talking about your opinion of games when the two played during the regular season. Let's look at those:

2/12 (at ATL)
Shareef: 9-18, 8 reb, 6 ast, 2 stl, 0 blks, 1 turnover
K-Mart: 4-9, 5 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 1 turnover

Reef did own him this game. K-Mart wasn't geling quite yet.

3/24 (at NJ)
Shareef: 12-21, 7 reb, 8 ast, 1 stl, 0 blks, 6 turnovers
K-Mart: 8-14, 6 reb, 5 ast, 3 stl, 2 blks, 2 turnovers

Hmm... Reef had the better offensive game (but did turn it over), but K-Mart clearly had solid D.

3/26 (at ATL)
Shareef: 18, 3 & 3
K-Mart: DNP

These two guys played twice. Shareef may have owned K-Mart once, but Martin had a much better second game as he started learning (growing up). The most important thing here, though, is that New Jersey won both of the games Martin played, but lost the one he didn't play in. I don't question your claim that Shareef was the better player last year. I just think Martin will be the better player this year.

This post was about starters. He starts so he had to
be in the top 29."

Newble was a starter and averaged 9PPG/5RPG but
I wouldn't put him there.
I wouldn't either because he won't be in the Hawks line-up on opening day THIS YEAR unless someone gets hurt.

Mash is more talented because he can hit the 3,
pass,rebound,postup,shoot the mid range jumper.
A 3pt shooter can easly be shutdown in a one on
one game.ESP considering Mash is likely quicker.

Peja is alot closer to Wally World and Allan Houston
a pretty much limited jump shooter.If a defender
looks to just put the clamps on him he can be shut
down.However,when Mash has his post game going
it's nearly impossible to stop him.Plus even though
neither are good defenders I think Mash is slighty
better.
Mash may be more talented (I don't think so), but more talented players are not necessarily better players. I think Antawn Jamison is MUCH more talented then Ben Wallace, but I would take Wallace in a second because he does his aspect of the game so well. I don't think one-on-one play is at all relevent to this discussion. I think Peja is better because of the way he fits in his team. This is a team game.

Now, I totally disagree with the "putting the clamps on him" claim. I'm pretty confident that some of the league's better defenders would tell you that this guy is near impossible to stop. He's silky smooth, and you don't give him any credit for his superior slashing ability and back-cutting position. This guy is an extremely multi-dimensional offensive player. In fact, I know that Peja could post up Mash any time he wanted. Peja is a VERY effective post player. Three-point-only shooters don't shoot 48% from the field. He has inside game.

PLEASE PEOPLE!!!! WE NEED SOME POSTERS HERE!!!! THIS IS A SOLID THREAD!!!!
 

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I have no rookies listed except for Ming..

CENTERS

1 Shaquille O'Neal-need I say more?
2 Alonzo Mourning-second best in a weak group
3 Dikembe Mutumbo-he can produce on both ends
4 Vlade Divac-solid producer
5 Michael Olowakandi-he is hard to rank-but he is solid.
6 Brad Miller-Actually Underrated.
7 Elden Campbell-Same as Miller
8 David Robinson-Big Factor in Spurs success
9 Zydrunas Ilgauskus-When he isn't injured...
10 Todd MacCulloch-Hard worker-not flashy but produces.
11 Theo Ratliff-same as Zydrunas
12 Kurt Thomas-Good Player-more of a PF
13 Dale Davis-Would be a lot better in East.
14 Clifford Robinson-Undersized,but still gets it done.
15 Marcus Camby-injured too often
16 Iakovos Tsakalidis-still a long way to go.
17 Hakeem Olajuwon-decent, but he needs to retire.
18 Radoslav Nesterovic-just average player
19 Vin Baker-when he is not depressed.
20 Jerome James-has physical tools...
21 Jarron Collins-has potential, should be solid in future
22 Lorenzen Wright-dont know much about him...
23 Joel Pryzbilla-I think he is slightly underrated
24 Eddy Curry-potential is the reason he is here.
25 Shawn Bradley-give him a chance, he will be ok
26 Horace Grant-old,short but he produces.
27 Erick Dampier-not really good at all
28 Jahidi White-he's strong???
29 Yao Ming-never seen him play-thats why he is last.

POWER FORWARDS

1. Tim Duncan (no question)
2. Chris Webber
3. Rasheed Wallace (has all the skills)
4. Elton Brand (way undersized for the west-but still performs)
5. Jermaine O'Neal
6. Shareef Abdur- Rahim
7. Ben Wallace (needs more offense)
8. Karl Malone (not done quite yet)
9. Antoine Walker (overrated)
10. Antonio Davis
11. Pau Gasol
12. Antonio McDyess
13. Kenyon Martin (overrated IMO)
14. Antwan Jamison
15 Raef LaFrentz
16. Juwan Howard
17. PJ Brown
18. Brian Grant
19. Derrick Coleman (could be a lot better)
20. Robert Horry
21. Anthony Mason
22. Popeye Jones (underrated)
23. Darius Miles
24. Tyson Chandler (still a ways to go)
25. Joe Smith
26. Maurice Taylor
27. Bo Outlaw (too small)
28. Vladmir Radmonivic
29. Horace Grant (too old)

SMALL FORWARDS

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Shawn Marion
4. Peja Stojakovic
5. Grant Hill
6. Jamal Mashburn
7. Jalen Rose
8. Mike Jordan
9. Lamar Odom
10. Glenn Robinson
11. Latrell Sprewell
12. Rashard Lewis
13. Lamond Murray
14. Tim Thomas
15. Andre Kirilenko
16. Darius Miles
17. Shane Battier
18. Keith Van Horn
19. Ron Artest
20. Scottie Pippen
21. Rick Fox
22. Eddie Griffin
23. Mo Peterson
24. Matt Harpring
25. Eddie Robinson
26. Greg Buckner
27. Bruce Bowen
28. Eric Williams
29. Mike Curry
 

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Reef did own him this game. K-Mart wasn't geling quite yet."


????Remember,this was Shareef's first season in Atlanta
also....Maybe he didn't "gell"enough either?

"Hmm... Reef had the better offensive game (but did turn it over), but K-Mart clearly had solid D."

Kinda tough to say when there are double teams coming
from Van Horn and Richard Jefferson.I watched the games
I saw what happend.Richard Jefferson and Martin had
better defense.Most of Martins points came off of Kidds
passes and very little came from the post or jumpshots.
Martin got more cheap ones because he is more atheletic
and because of Kidd.

People really don't know how much double teaming Reef
gets.It caused him to get in alot of shoving matches this
year due to frustration.

" In fact, I know that Peja could post up Mash any time he wanted. "

That's a load of crud.Peja isn't even a phycial player.Peja is
a perimeter player much like Wally who also shoots over
50% but has very little inside play.

"Mash may be more talented (I don't think so), "

Peja is a below average passer and can't postup.Mash
can do this things along with hitting jumpers and he
has more ability to play better defense.If they were
healthy I would take Mashburn first.Two years ago
in the playoffs he was playing really well and actually
seemed like a actual go-to guy.

We will have to agree to dissagree.














Originally posted by <b>RollWithEm</b>!


Martin had very effective games in the playoffs this year(where Shareef has never been) against smaller, quicker players and basically held his own with the stronger players as well. You are talking about your opinion of games when the two played during the regular season. Let's look at those:

2/12 (at ATL)
Shareef: 9-18, 8 reb, 6 ast, 2 stl, 0 blks, 1 turnover
K-Mart: 4-9, 5 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 1 turnover

Reef did own him this game. K-Mart wasn't geling quite yet.

3/24 (at NJ)
Shareef: 12-21, 7 reb, 8 ast, 1 stl, 0 blks, 6 turnovers
K-Mart: 8-14, 6 reb, 5 ast, 3 stl, 2 blks, 2 turnovers

Hmm... Reef had the better offensive game (but did turn it over), but K-Mart clearly had solid D.

3/26 (at ATL)
Shareef: 18, 3 & 3
K-Mart: DNP

These two guys played twice. Shareef may have owned K-Mart once, but Martin had a much better second game as he started learning (growing up). The most important thing here, though, is that New Jersey won both of the games Martin played, but lost the one he didn't play in. I don't question your claim that Shareef was the better player last year. I just think Martin will be the better player this year.



I wouldn't either because he won't be in the Hawks line-up on opening day THIS YEAR unless someone gets hurt.



Mash may be more talented (I don't think so), but more talented players are not necessarily better players. I think Antawn Jamison is MUCH more talented then Ben Wallace, but I would take Wallace in a second because he does his aspect of the game so well. I don't think one-on-one play is at all relevent to this discussion. I think Peja is better because of the way he fits in his team. This is a team game.

Now, I totally disagree with the "putting the clamps on him" claim. I'm pretty confident that some of the league's better defenders would tell you that this guy is near impossible to stop. He's silky smooth, and you don't give him any credit for his superior slashing ability and back-cutting position. This guy is an extremely multi-dimensional offensive player. In fact, I know that Peja could post up Mash any time he wanted. Peja is a VERY effective post player. Three-point-only shooters don't shoot 48% from the field. He has inside game.

PLEASE PEOPLE!!!! WE NEED SOME POSTERS HERE!!!! THIS IS A SOLID THREAD!!!!
 

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It will be interesting to see how Shareef performs this
year with Big Dog.He has never played with a good
mid range shooter like Big Dog before that will draw
double teams away.Actually this is the most talented
team Shareef has ever played on.I expect ALOT less
double teams and if they don't stop I expect Big Dog
to toast some guys.Sometimes Shareef didn't pass
out do to lack of trust in teammates(because they
often didn't get the job done)so it will be interesting
to see.I expect Shareef to have his best season ever.





Originally posted by <b>Hotlantadude198</b>!
Reef did own him this game. K-Mart wasn't geling quite yet."


????Remember,this was Shareef's first season in Atlanta
also....Maybe he didn't "gell"enough either?

Sure Martin had one or two good games in the finals.But
the finals were over before they even started.Two playoff
games doesn't convince me.I've seen lots of guys have good
play games(Austin Croshere comes to mind)but they were
just that,a few good games.

"Hmm... Reef had the better offensive game (but did turn it over), but K-Mart clearly had solid D."

Kinda tough to say when there are double teams coming
from Van Horn and Richard Jefferson.I watched the games
I saw what happend.Richard Jefferson and Martin had
better defense.Most of Martins points came off of Kidds
passes and very little came from the post or jumpshots.
Martin got more cheap ones because he is more atheletic
and because of Kidd.

People really don't know how much double teaming Reef
gets.It caused him to get in alot of shoving matches this
year due to frustration.

" In fact, I know that Peja could post up Mash any time he wanted. "

That's a load of crud.Peja isn't even a phycial player.Peja is
a perimeter player much like Wally who also shoots over
50% but has very little inside play.

"Mash may be more talented (I don't think so), "

Peja is a below average passer and can't postup.Mash
can do this things along with hitting jumpers and he
has more ability to play better defense.If they were
healthy I would take Mashburn first.Two years ago
in the playoffs he was playing really well and actually
seemed like a actual go-to guy.

We will have to agree to dissagree.
 

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I agree that Reef is better then Martin. Kenyon is one of the most overrated players in the league..
 

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Martins a good player,and he could be better next year
but other than a few playoff games(again the finals was
over before it started)I see no signs of Martin being the
better player RIGHT NOW.We will have to wait and see.

Shoot I wish we had Kidd here feeding us the ball.But
the again,doesn't alot of teams?lol
 

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mine:

Only starters listed:
Centers:
1. Shaquille O'Neal- don't be a hater.
2. Alonzo Mourning- does his motor still have go in it?
3. Michael Olowokandi- has one more season to really break out.
4. Vlade Divac- finely tuned flopping machine, he got skills too.
5. Clifford Robinson- since he's playing center, he's right here.
6. Dekembe Mutombo- how old is he now? 45? .
7. Elden Campbell- solid, but still has the smallest hands in the L.
8. Zydrunas Ilgauskus- if his foot is healthy he's pretty good.
9. Brad Miller- overrated, someone teach him some D other than the grab,pull,smack-Shaq...the guy is 1-D more than anyone.
10. David Robinson- he's partially numbed in his legs now.
11. Theo Ratliff- a comeback is in store for this shot-blocker.
12. Todd MacCulloch- solid but slow, agile but not athletic.
13. Iakovos Tsakalidis- finally showing glimpses of potential.
14. Marcus Camby- a broken twig most of the time.
15. Lorenzen Wright- the not as good Brad Miller.
16. Dale Davis- the shirt-ripping thing was great PR.
17. Radoslav Nesterovic- solid but still skinny.
18. Kurt Thomas- solid but glued to the ground.
19. Calvin Booth- good shot-blocker, over-payed.
20. Erick Dampier- waaay over-payed but decent.
21. Eddy Curry- he's finally getting in shape.
22. Jahidi White- 3rd in rebounds per 48 minutes.
23. Kelvin Cato- no Ming will not start, good D.
24. Horace Grant- soooooo old, his 401K is almost ready.
25. Vin Baker- his fat @$$ should be hung up for public kicking.
26. Erv Johnson- old but good D.
27. Shawn Bradley- better than peeps think, but he still sucks.
28. Jarron Collins- to small in the WC but is PF of Jazz future
29. Eric Montross- Hakeem should hang up his boots.

Power Forwards:
1. Tim Duncan- hands down
2. Chris Webber- fake franchise player but still a star
3. Elton Brand- does what the coach wants, when the coach does
4. Rasheed Wallace- volitile but skilled
5. Antoine Walker- give the guy some credit peeps
6. Jermaine O'Neal-still has untapped potential, inconsistant
7. Karl Malone- still up there, not better w/age though
8. Pau Gasol- more potential than O'Neal, but only 20
9. Ben Wallace- g-d-damn 42 % ft! get this guy a shooting coach
10. Shareef Abdur Rahim- good numbers, but not a leader
11. Antawn Jamison- needs more team suport
12. Kenyon Martin- stop yelling and develope control
13. Antonio Davis- great D, solid O, great roleplayer, clutch
14. Raef Lafrentz- soft as a baby's bottom
15. Antonio McDyess- should partially recover from knee injury
16. Brian Grant- needs to turn back into Rasta in Portland
17. P.J. Brown- good D and rebounding, role player only
18. Anthony Mason- needs to get shape
19. Vlademir Radmonovic- VladRad needs some more bulk
20. Juwan Howard- still decent although over-payed
21. Pat Garrity- perfect PF for the T-Mac-triangle
22. Derrick Coleman- better on court than in jail
23. Tyson Chandler- averaged like 12 fouls in 48 min
24. Tom Gugliotta- wearing down but still there
25. Poeye Jones- Popeye isn't going to be around much longer
26. Samaki Walker- Horry doesn't start
27. Tyrone Hill- UG-LEE mofo, get him some plastic surgery, please
28. Mo Taylor- put the cheetos down, and learn to rebound
29. Joe Smith- I'd start Sam Mitchell if I were the T-Wolves

Small Forwards:
1. Kevin Garnett- he's the man, and will show it this year
2. Dirk Nowitzki- if he could play D he'd be #1
3. Shawn Marion-not as good as Odom not drugged, a PF in a SF
4. Lamar Odom- top 10 in the NBA without drugs
5. Peja Stojakovic- shooter extrordanaire, pure O
6. Michael Jordan- even with 2 broken knees he's here
7. Grant Hill- if he's healthy and Odom's not on drugs he's between Odom and Marion
8. Jalen Rose- the only player on Chicago who can play 35 min
9. Jamal Mashburn- he's going to have a small year with BD on fire
10. Rashard Lewis- where he at? back at Seattle now? solid
11. Latrell Sprewell- well as much as you hate him he's good
12. Glenn Robinson- fat Dawg and Shareef are a small tandem
13. Andrei Kirilenko- dangerous, just needs more weight.
14. Shane Battier- underrated, solid, great teamplayer
15. Keith Van Horn- he's better than haters know
16. Al Harrington- very solid but I like Artest more
17. Darius Miles- needs some more time to develope
18. Tim Thomas- might finally pull his pay
19. Richard Jefferson- now he gets to prove himself
20. James Posey- great D, good shooter, needs to break out
21. Scottie Pippen- crafty, and still skilled but getting old
22. Morris Peterson- good shooter, but awefull D and size
23. Mike Dunleavy- will prove himself to doubters
24. Rick Fox- a role player, but a great one.
25. Eric Williams- tough defender and good shooter
26. Bruce Bowen- great D, awefull O
27. Walt Williams- he getting to the Horace Grant-Old level
28. Greg Buckner- smaller lees skilled Bowen
29. Caron Butler- he's going to be dominated because of his size
 

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<b>"In fact, I know that Peja could post up Mash any time he wanted. Peja is a VERY effective post player. Three-point-only shooters don't shoot 48% from the field. He has inside game."</b>

You are so right - players (Peja in this case) do not have that high of a shooting percentage - UNLESS - they have a good post up game and/or can hit the 15 foot jump shot! This point is not brought out enough. It is also true that if you have good teammates, your post up game is also better because of the ability of the post up player to pass the ball to decent shooters on the perimeter.

Reef is doubled and even tripled because he is such a good scorer and rebounder. He plays hard and is a better PF to me than Kenyon - at this point in time.

I like this discussion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks rifleman...

It's hard to get support sometimes on my own posts!
 

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I think everyone so far on this thread has underrated Elton Brand. You may think I'm crazy but I think he is the second best PF in the league. The Clippers have alot of players who like to score on their team, so the offense didn't really revolve around Brand like it should have, but I think he did really well with the touches he got. He averaged 18.2 ppg, on .527 shooting ( 2nd in the league, don't underestimate the importance of fg%) with a decent .742 ft%. 11.6 rpg, but 5 of those were offensive rebounds. He led the league in offensive rebounds and was 5th in total rebounds. I think offensive rebounds are more important than defensive anyway. What is important on the defensive end is preventing your opposing player from getting an offensive rebound. Olowakandi was playing right next to him and Kandi is an excellent rebounder also. So, obviously, Kandi took alot of the defensive rebounds that Brand could have taken. Look at the 4 people who were ahead of him in rebounds per game: Duncan, B Wallace, Garnett, and Fortson. None of these players had another rebounding prescence on their team.
Also, Brand is a better defender than Webber or pretty much any PF except for Ben Wallace and Tim Duncan. I just think people are not giving him his due just because he didn't average 20 points a game.
 

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I have him ranked 4th-I agree he is a great player and a hard worker-but he just isn't tall enough...
 

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Originally posted by <b>Hotlantadude198</b>!
Brand is good,but he . . . seems to get
alot of junk baskets as opposed to actual moves.
To quote the godawful Sprite commercial.
"Two points is two points."
 
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