[robyg1974]

I have ranked the 29 starting small forwards here, #1-#29. Why? Because I get tired of hearing people making outrageous statements like "Vin Baker is going to be the third-best center in the Eastern Conference"--I think that, if confronted with a list like the one below, it's pretty tough to back such ridiculous statements up! And, for the past few days, I was debating with some guys in the Celtics forum about Eric Williams--they were both arguing that Eric Williams is better than Keith Van Horn! GOOD GRIEF!

And, YES, this is supposed to generate a debate! But NOT "Kevin Garnett is a PF, not a SF"! Instead of debating whether or not so-and-so is a SF or a PF, why not just give me the benefit of the doubt here? Besides, HOW BORING is the "Is Kevin Garnett a SF or a PF" debate, anyway? Why not just call him a SF for the sake of argument?

The sort of debate that is WAY MORE INTERESTING will assume that all 29 dudes listed below ARE what I say they are (i.e., starting small forwards in the NBA) and will INSTEAD focus on who is better than who on the list below. For example, do you think that Eric Williams is the best starting SF in the NBA? If so, let's hear why!

If I have somebody listed as a starter who WON'T be a starter, please let me know.

So, without further ado, here's the list:

1 Kevin Garnett, Minnesota (Joe Smith starts at PF)
2 Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas (LaFrentz is the PF, Bradley/Eschmeyer the C)
3 Michael Jordan, Washington (he DOES start at SF now, right?)
4 Shawn Marion, Phoenix (what a player)
5 Lamar Odom, L.A. Clippers (will have a HUGE season)
6 Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento (would've made the difference vs. the Lakers in the playoffs)
7 Grant Hill, Orlando (I'm assuming that he stays healthy)
8 Jamal Mashburn, New Orleans (needs to get and stay healthy for a change)
9 Rashard Lewis, Seattle (he'll probably re-sign with Seattle)
10 Glenn Robinson, Atlanta (HE wasn't the problem in Milwaukee)
11 Donyell Marshall, Chicago (will start, Jalen Rose moves over to SG)
12 Ron Artest, Indiana (unless Al Harrington starts)
13 Scottie Pippen, Portland (still a lot more productive than people think)
14 Keith Van Horn, Philadelphia (a change of scenery could work wonders)
15 Richard Jefferson, New Jersey (don't expect stardom, at least not yet)
16 Latrell Sprewell, New York (plays SF for the Knicks)
17 Lamond Murray, Cleveland (I say Darius Miles is a PF, not a SF)
18 Caron Butler (probably more NBA-ready than Dunleavy, don't you think?)
19 Andrei Kirilenko (THE best player under the age of 39 on this team)
20 Mike Dunleavy (hard to know what to expect)
21 Shane Battier, Memphis (played a lot of minutes last season)
22 Rick Fox, L.A. Lakers (a solid role player)
23 Morris Peterson, Toronto (is this guy going to get better or what?)
24 Tim Thomas, Milwaukee (finally gets 30+ minutes)
25 Eddie Griffin, Houston (or does Glen Rice start?)
26 Bruce Bowen, San Antonio (has worked very hard to become a solid NBA player)
27 Eric Williams, Boston (although the Celtics would LOVE for Kedrick Brown to take over)
28 Michael Curry, Detroit (uh, good defender, but a STARTER?)
29 Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Denver (very, VERY raw)

AGAIN, I don't want to hear any of this "Kevin Garnett is a PF, not a SF" crap--but if, say, Glen Rice is expected to be the starter at SF for Houston instead of Eddie Griffin (whose future is obviously at PF, but who was starting at SF for Houston last season, I'm pretty sure), PLEASE TELL ME, because I want to know.

DEBATE, PEOPLE! Re-ranking is ENCOURAGED! I want to get a feel for what you people think! GO GO GO!

 

[Quasi-Quasar]

mine:

1 Kevin Garnett, Minnesota (Joe Smith starts at PF)
2 Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas (LaFrentz is the PF, Eschmeyer the C)
3 Shawn Marion, Phoenix
4 Lamar Odom, L.A. Clippers
5 Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento
6 Michael Jordan, Washington (he DOES start at SF now, right?)
7 Grant Hill, Orlando (I'm assuming that he stays healthy)
8 Jalen Rose, Chicago (starts at SF, not SG, right?)
9 Jamal Mashburn, New Orleans
10 Rashard Lewis, Seattle (he'll probably re-sign with Seattle)
11 Latrell Sprewell, New York (plays SF for the Knicks)
12 Glenn Robinson, Atlanta
13 Andrei Kirilenko, Utah (if Donyell Marshall isn't re-signed)
14 Keith Van Horn, New Jersey
15 Al Harrington, Indiana (or does Ron Artest start?)
16 Clifford Robinson, Detroit
17 Lamond Murray, Cleveland (I say Darius Miles is a PF, not a SF)
18 Shane Battier, Memphis (should start ahead of Drew Gooden)
19 Tim Thomas, Milwaukee (finally gets 30+ minutes)
29 Corey Maggette, L.A. Clippers
21 Scottie Pippen, Portland
22 Morris Peterson, Toronto
23 Eddie Griffin, Houston (or does Glen Rice start?)
24 Caron Butler, Miami Michael Curry, Detroit
25 Mike Dunleavy, Golden State
26 Greg Buckner, Philadelphia (if Harpring isn't re-signed)
27 Rick Fox, L.A. Lakers
28 Bruce Bowen, San Antonio (Malik Rose comes off the bench)
29 Kedrick Brown, Boston

 

[g-dog-rice]

How can you say Lamar Odom is #4?

 

[jmk]

Because he is the man...

Lamar Odom is a top 5 cuz he has the ability to put up 20-7-7

 

[Quasi-Quasar]

LO

LO, when healthy (which he is right now) is maybe even better than Marion, he's definitely top 5 and I have him at 4 ahead of Peja because he's a better defender,more athletic,taller,better passer,and a better rebounder than Peja.....Statistically LO is top 3 because he puts up 17 points,8 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 1.8 blocks, 1.5 steals when he's healthy.....only Marion among the SFs averages more blocks+steals, but with Odom healthy he could even top Matrix plus Odom has increased his vert by like 5'' when he was injured (because he only worked on his legs).

 

[Coatesvillain]

I don't know if this Jordan should be ranked high on this list. If he was younger and was playing SF, I'd agree but it's obvious that this man is finished. No offense, to those MJ loyalist.

And since he's coming off the bench, if he comes back, that means he shouldn't be that high.

Also, I'm almost positive that LaFrentz is playing Center in Dallas, since Eschmeyer officially rides shotgun on the pine during games.

-Tim

 

[g-dog-rice]

Re: Because he is the man...

Originally posted by jmk
Lamar Odom is a top 5 cuz he has the ability to put up 20-7-7

But he doesn't...

 

[robyg1974]

Originally posted by PhillyPhanatic
I don't know if this Jordan should be ranked high on this list. If he was younger and was playing SF, I'd agree but it's obvious that this man is finished. No offense, to those MJ loyalist.

And since he's coming off the bench, if he comes back, that means he shouldn't be that high.

Also, I'm almost positive that LaFrentz is playing Center in Dallas, since Eschmeyer officially rides shotgun on the pine during games.

-Tim

1) Sorry, dude, MJ was having an MVP-caliber season last year before he went down. And I don't even really like MJ!

2) After Dallas' defense got KILLED inside in the playoffs, Don Nelson & Company vowed to start a REAL center at center, thus moving LaFrentz to PF and Nowitzki to SF. Will LaFrentz play plenty of minutes at C? Sure! Will Nowitzki play plenty of minutes at PF? Sure! But we're talking about STARTERS here!

 

[robyg1974]

Re: mine:

Originally posted by TheGoods
1 Kevin Garnett, Minnesota (Joe Smith starts at PF)
2 Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas (LaFrentz is the PF, Eschmeyer the C)
3 Shawn Marion, Phoenix
4 Lamar Odom, L.A. Clippers
5 Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento
6 Michael Jordan, Washington (he DOES start at SF now, right?)
7 Grant Hill, Orlando (I'm assuming that he stays healthy)
8 Jalen Rose, Chicago (starts at SF, not SG, right?)
9 Jamal Mashburn, New Orleans
10 Rashard Lewis, Seattle (he'll probably re-sign with Seattle)
11 Latrell Sprewell, New York (plays SF for the Knicks)
12 Glenn Robinson, Atlanta
13 Andrei Kirilenko, Utah (if Donyell Marshall isn't re-signed)
14 Keith Van Horn, New Jersey
15 Al Harrington, Indiana (or does Ron Artest start?)
16 Clifford Robinson, Detroit
17 Lamond Murray, Cleveland (I say Darius Miles is a PF, not a SF)
18 Shane Battier, Memphis (should start ahead of Drew Gooden)
19 Tim Thomas, Milwaukee (finally gets 30+ minutes)
29 Corey Maggette, L.A. Clippers
21 Scottie Pippen, Portland
22 Morris Peterson, Toronto
23 Eddie Griffin, Houston (or does Glen Rice start?)
24 Caron Butler, Miami Michael Curry, Detroit
25 Mike Dunleavy, Golden State
26 Greg Buckner, Philadelphia (if Harpring isn't re-signed)
27 Rick Fox, L.A. Lakers
28 Bruce Bowen, San Antonio (Malik Rose comes off the bench)
29 Kedrick Brown, Boston

Some thoughts:

1) Clifford Robinson started at CENTER for Detroit last season, not at SF;

2) You have Corey Maggette and Lamar Odom both starting at SF; this is obviously a mistake, since they play on the same team;

3) Kedrick Brown isn't going to start for Boston, is he? Won't Eric Williams be the starter at SF, not Brown?

4) You don't have Nikoloz Tskitishvili on yr list.

Thanks for participating, though! WHO ELSE? Let's hear it, peoples!

 

[UNCStateGuy]

Nice topic. Here are my thoughts.

Darius Miles will be a SF. The kid isn't going to put on serious weight (maybe he reaches 220) and he is only 6'9". His ball handling, passing and shooting skills aren't up to par with other SF's but they should be respectable by the end of the year with the playing time he will get in Cleveland.

Caron Butler ahead of Dunleavy? Dunleavy was drafted 3rd for a reason. I really disliked Mike Dunleavy during his days as a Dukie. I just wanted to slap the punk look off of his face as he whined to the officials. But he was drafted 7 spots ahead of Butler and has an additional year of college experience under his belt. Butler has a better opportunity for immediate success in Miami but I don't think he will be a better player than Dunleavy in his rookie year (or for his career.)

 

[SikHandlez24]

2 Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas (LaFrentz is the PF, Eschmeyer the C) <---??? LOL. LAFRENTZ IS A CENTER. NO WAY WILL ESCHMEYER START.LOL
3 Michael Jordan, Washington (he DOES start at SF now, right?)<---IF HE COMES BACK HE WILL PLAY BACKUP SG
15 Al Harrington, Indiana (or does Ron Artest start?)>---RON ARTEST WILL START
16 Lamond Murray, Cleveland (I say Darius Miles is a PF, not a SF)<---DARIUS MILES WILL START AT SF. THEY WILL DEAL MURRAY
29 Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Denver (very, VERY raw)<---IF JAMES POSEY IS STILL THERE HE WILL START

 

[robyg1974]

IMX...

Originally posted by IMX
2 Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas (LaFrentz is the PF, Eschmeyer the C) <---??? LOL. LAFRENTZ IS A CENTER. NO WAY WILL ESCHMEYER START.LOL
3 Michael Jordan, Washington (he DOES start at SF now, right?)<---IF HE COMES BACK HE WILL PLAY BACKUP SG
15 Al Harrington, Indiana (or does Ron Artest start?)>---RON ARTEST WILL START
16 Lamond Murray, Cleveland (I say Darius Miles is a PF, not a SF)<---DARIUS MILES WILL START AT SF. THEY WILL DEAL MURRAY
29 Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Denver (very, VERY raw)<---IF JAMES POSEY IS STILL THERE HE WILL START

Thanks for the suggestions. BUT:

1) After Dallas got killed inside during the playoffs, the team vowed to start either Eschmeyer or Bradley at C and play them PLENTY inside, which would move LaFrentz to the starting PF, and Nowitzki to the starting SF. Will they follow through? We'll see.

2) I don't care what they are saying up in Washington, if MJ is healthy, he'll start and play 30+ minutes/game.

3) Thanks, I wasn't sure, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, I'll put Ron Artest as the Pacers' starter.

4) I'm sorry, you guys can debate it if you want, but I'm leaving Murray as the team's starting SF until traded, and, whether he gets traded or not, I'm leaving Miles as the team's starting PF.

5) My impression is that James Posey will start at SG and that Tskitishvilli will start at SF (and Juwan Howard at PF and Marcus Camby at C). I KNOW that this Savovic kid won't start at SG! I suppose Kenny Satterfield could start at SG, moving Posey to SF--but I'm going to stick with my gut feeling here, until proven otherwise.

Thanks for the help, though. I'll edit my rankings and make Ron Artest the starter at SF for the Pacers.

 

[robyg1974]

Originally posted by UNCStateGuy
Nice topic. Here are my thoughts.

Darius Miles will be a SF. The kid isn't going to put on serious weight (maybe he reaches 220) and he is only 6'9". His ball handling, passing and shooting skills aren't up to par with other SF's but they should be respectable by the end of the year with the playing time he will get in Cleveland.

I understand that nobody agrees with me, but I really do believe that Darius Miles' future in the league is as a PF, not as a SF. Besides, if the Cavs ARE going to trade Lamond Murray to a contender (they SHOULD, you know), they're going to need to "showcase his skills" by giving him plenty of minutes, STARTER'S minutes. And, even if/when he gets traded, I'll say that the team inserts Jumaine Jones as the starter at SF and leave Miles at PF.

Caron Butler ahead of Dunleavy? Dunleavy was drafted 3rd for a reason. I really disliked Mike Dunleavy during his days as a Dukie. I just wanted to slap the punk look off of his face as he whined to the officials. But he was drafted 7 spots ahead of Butler and has an additional year of college experience under his belt. Butler has a better opportunity for immediate success in Miami but I don't think he will be a better player than Dunleavy in his rookie year (or for his career.)

Okay, I had mixed feelings about this before you called me out on it--you convinced me, I switched them in my revised rankings. Thanks.

WHO ELSE! Rank, people! RANK THE STARTING SMALL FORWARDS! Provide commentary! DO IT!

 

[robyg1974]

Everybody!

Now is your chance! Re-rank the 29 starting small forwards AS YOU SEE FIT! Let's debate this thing!

Isn't this a lot more interesting than "Rafer Alston is totally awesome!"?

RE-RANK, PEOPLES!

 

[Killuminati]

Originally posted by UNCStateGuy
Nice topic. Here are my thoughts.

Caron Butler ahead of Dunleavy? Dunleavy was drafted 3rd for a reason. I really disliked Mike Dunleavy during his days as a Dukie. I just wanted to slap the punk look off of his face as he whined to the officials. But he was drafted 7 spots ahead of Butler and has an additional year of college experience under his belt. Butler has a better opportunity for immediate success in Miami but I don't think he will be a better player than Dunleavy in his rookie year (or for his career.)

Hmmm I beg to differ, just cuz your drafted ahead of someone doesnt mean your better eg. look at what tinsley did last year and wasnt he drafted at the very bottom of the 1st round? Butler is more athletic, stronger and quicker than dunleavy, at least from what I saw and will be the better player in the future.

 

[Sir I Gotta Go]

*deleted*

 

[robyg1974]

Originally posted by Malakian
*deleted*

It is the year 2002, that term isn't exactly socially acceptable anymore, you know?

Anyway, you're a pretty active dude around here, Malakian, why don't you attempt to re-rank the 29 starting small forwards as you see fit? So we can maybe generate a little discussion around here about something besides Rafer Alston?

 

[Sir I Gotta Go]

1 Kevin Garnett, Minnesota (Joe Smith starts at PF)
2 Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas (LaFrentz is the PF, Eschmeyer the C)
3 Michael Jordan, Washington (he DOES start at SF now, right?)
4 Shawn Marion, Phoenix
5 Lamar Odom, L.A. Clippers
6 Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento
7 Jalen Rose, Chicago (starts at SF, not SG, right?)
8 Grant Hill, Orlando (I'm assuming that he stays healthy)
9 Jamal Mashburn, New Orleans
10 Rashard Lewis, Seattle (he'll probably re-sign with Seattle)
11 Latrell Sprewell, New York (plays SF for the Knicks)
12 Glenn Robinson, Atlanta
13 Keith Van Horn, New Jersey
14 Ron Artest, Indiana
15 Scottie Pippen, Portland
16 Lamond Murray, Cleveland (I say Darius Miles is a PF, not a SF)
17 Mike Dunleavy, Golden State
18 Caron Butler, Miami
19 Andrei Kirilenko, Utah (if Donyell Marshall isn't re-signed)
20 Rick Fox, L.A. Lakers
21 Morris Peterson, Toronto
22 Shane Battier, Memphis (should start ahead of Drew Gooden)
23 Tim Thomas, Milwaukee (finally gets 30+ minutes)
24 Eddie Griffin, Houston (or does Glen Rice start?)
25 Bruce Bowen, San Antonio (Malik Rose comes off the bench)
26 Greg Buckner, Philadelphia (if Harpring isn't re-signed)
27 Eric Williams, Boston (Paul Pierce is the starting SG now)
28 Michael Curry, Detroit
29 Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Denver (very, VERY raw)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. dirk Nowitzki
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Vince Carter
4. Lamar Odom
5. Shawn Marion
6. Peja Stojacovic
7. Jamal Mashburn
8. Grant Hill
9. Jalen Rose
10.Latrell Sprewell
11.Glenn Robinson
12.Rashard Lewis
13.Ron Artest
14.Andrei Kirilenko
15.Tim Thomas
16.Darius Miles
17.Mike dunleavy
18.Scottie Pippen
19.Caron Butler
20.Eddie Griffin
21.Shane Battier
22.Nikoloz Tskitishvili
23.Bruce Bowen
24.Rick Fox
25.Eric Williams
26.Michael Curry
27.Greg Buckner
28.Hedo Turkoglu
29.K mart's V ittle H itch

 

[thuglife]

13 Andrei Kirilenko, Utah (if Donyell Marshall isn't re-signed)

then why isnt Marshall on the list...i mean if he would start over Kirileko why didnt he make the list?

 

[hunterb14]

TMAC goes in the second slot if you consider KG a SF.

By the way, Why is TMAC not on the list?