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Balogh was given orders from someone above. She had nothing to gain from him being reported or named. The people high up in the administration absolutely had something to lose as well they’re trying to impress a new president at the time. They put a woman that was lower in the chain of command in a bad spot. She was essentially the “fall guy”
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·

Most of the athletes that did it aren't seniors.

For the people saying Schulman shouldn't be fired, this "whole thing" started because he tricked a SA into not going to the proper authorities on campus. I'm sure there's plenty athletic administrators around the country who can do his job as well as him but with better morals (you would hope, at least!)
That is a very strong statement. Who did he trick and how did he trick them?
Ware has stated all along that Schulman misled her into thinking there would be certain consequences if she followed certain actions, only to find out it wasn’t the case after she’d signed off on those actions...

Furthermore, a whole bunch of people from several different positions close to the situation have said that when Ware came in to the Title IX office to lodge her initial complaint, that the Title IX officer excused themself to inform schulman, who immediate called up the alleged rapists head coach who then came straight down to the office and the pair began game planning damage control around the incident. Leaving the alleged victim to find herself face to face with her alleged attackers head coach in the athletic department hallway immediately after making the most gut wrenching and humiliating revelation one can make (that you were the victim of sexual assault).

If this is true this alone is a horrific way for it to be handled, it is not placing the safety of an alleged rape victim as paramount.

Furthermore much has been alleged that schulman would routinely initiate “check ins” with the alleged victim of a rape, someone who due to the Title IX complaint should not have been hearing from the athletic department directly about it. And that these check ins were often pressuring in nature about courses of action to take...

So yeah, if those things happened he should have been fired out of a cannon long ago.
 

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Balogh was given orders from someone above. She had nothing to gain from him being reported or named. The people high up in the administration absolutely had something to lose as well they’re trying to impress a new president at the time. They put a woman that was lower in the chain of command in a bad spot. She was essentially the “fall guy”
Does this really make sense to you? A woman, UVM alum, former student athlete on the swim team, making maybe 95k per year is really going to allow herself to be the fall woman and ruin her entire career at the age of 39ish to protect an athletic director whose only experience is at Vermont?
 

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Ware has stated all along that Schulman misled her into thinking there would be certain consequences if she followed certain actions, only to find out it wasn’t the case after she’d signed off on those actions...

Furthermore, a whole bunch of people from several different positions close to the situation have said that when Ware came in to the Title IX office to lodge her initial complaint, that the Title IX officer excused themself to inform schulman, who immediate called up the alleged rapists head coach who then came straight down to the office and the pair began game planning damage control around the incident. Leaving the alleged victim to find herself face to face with her alleged attackers head coach in the athletic department hallway immediately after making the most gut wrenching and humiliating revelation one can make (that you were the victim of sexual assault).

If this is true this alone is a horrific way for it to be handled, it is not placing the safety of an alleged rape victim as paramount.

Furthermore much has been alleged that schulman would routinely initiate “check ins” with the alleged victim of a rape, someone who due to the Title IX complaint should not have been hearing from the athletic department directly about it. And that these check ins were often pressuring in nature about courses of action to take...

So yeah, if those things happened he should have been fired out of a cannon long ago.
An investigation will clear all of this up. Every school has different title ix procedures. i am not sure if the AD or coach is allowed to know at vermont. Whether or not they are allowed to find out, i find it extremely inappropriate that the title IX officer would immediately excuse themselves to tell the AD or coach about the issue. You are 100% correct. Terrible way to handle the situation. We need to confirm this actually happened and the officer didn't excuse themselves for some other reason like go to the bathroom, get a form.... Briefly reading the title ix complaint information online at vermont the student should have filled out a form with the title ix officer and been provided with the options they had in writing once the complaint was made... Did the title ix officer provide this information because that would have cleared up the confusion with the informal/formal complaint situation. If the title ix officer did tell Schulman in the middle of the meeting and did not properly guide the student athlete through the process than that is not Schulman's fault. That is on the title ix officer. That is their job. That is why they are paid. Saying they colluded on damage control is just your assumption. I assume seeing Becker in the hallway is something that routinely happens not sure what that has anything to do with it.

I agree with this as well. Schulman should not have reached out to her which that was not included in the article. However it is clear that the student and her mother did involve athletic department officials potentially blurring the lines.

In my opinion, which is worth nothing, the title ix coordinator should not have involved the AD or associate AD. Then any time the AD or associate AD was contacted regardless of who they were contacted by they should have immediately stopped the conversation and refereed it back to the title ix officer.

Again, i want to stress i am on board with firing people for wrong doing but i am against a trial by media based on one side of the story. That is all we have right now.
 

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Does this really make sense to you? A woman, UVM alum, former student athlete on the swim team, making maybe 95k per year is really going to allow herself to be the fall woman and ruin her entire career at the age of 39ish to protect an athletic director whose only experience is at Vermont?
Never said she would allow herself, I’m saying she was put in that position. She probably didn’t realize it at the time. Pressure from above. Shulman wasn’t making that call himself. They needed someone that the victim would trust to help talk her out of pressing charges. I think the whole administration should resign.

You either teach it or tolerate it. They cultivated a culture that tolerated that behavior and protected the player instead of letting a proper investigation take place.

Ultimately it’s terrible that the administration as a whole protected someone that may have committed rape. It’s not a secret on campus what happened and there have been other things swept under the rug.
 

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Anyone have an update on where this issue stands? We’re sitting on our season ticket renewal pending more clarity regarding the University’s plans to create accountability. While I fully understand that certain Information can’t be shared, we’re struggling with the idea of sitting in the stands, supporting this team/institution with so many unknowns.
 

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Anyone have an update on where this issue stands? We’re sitting on our season ticket renewal pending more clarity regarding the University’s plans to create accountability. While I fully understand that certain Information can’t be shared, we’re struggling with the idea of sitting in the stands, supporting this team/institution with so many unknowns.
I think you need to accept the likelihood details may never be forthcoming. Such is the nature of investigations into such matters absent criminal charges. We are ‘in’ on hoops tickets, given that reality.
 

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Anyone have an update on where this issue stands? We’re sitting on our season ticket renewal pending more clarity regarding the University’s plans to create accountability. While I fully understand that certain Information can’t be shared, we’re struggling with the idea of sitting in the stands, supporting this team/institution with so many unknowns.
If your gut is telling you this all makes you uncomfortable, don't renew. I didn't. Know a few others who did the same. I feel pretty good about it.

Frankly, if any of us wanted to go to a game, it's not that hard...they don't sell out, and dropping your tickets for a couple of years doesn't push you down some waitlist (there is none). You'll be able to get them back easily. Maybe you lose out on a championship game, but honestly well-prepared people always get tickets to the final. But is that the end of the world? No. Just follow from afar, watch at home if you want, or watch another team. You can now with the power of streaming. Sucks, but it's better than feeling shitty about giving money to a school that doesn't bother to actually take any accountability for its actions.
 

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If your gut is telling you this all makes you uncomfortable, don't renew. I didn't. Know a few others who did the same. I feel pretty good about it.

Frankly, if any of us wanted to go to a game, it's not that hard...they don't sell out, and dropping your tickets for a couple of years doesn't push you down some waitlist (there is none). You'll be able to get them back easily. Maybe you lose out on a championship game, but honestly well-prepared people always get tickets to the final. But is that the end of the world? No. Just follow from afar, watch at home if you want, or watch another team. You can now with the power of streaming. Sucks, but it's better than feeling shitty about giving money to a school that doesn't bother to actually take any accountability for its actions.
Man…..You have jumped to conclusions about which you really don’t have the details. Talk with people who are intimately-familiar with the complexity of sexual abuse allegations, particularly ones that does not include criminal charges, I would suggest.
 

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Man…..You have jumped to conclusions about which you really don’t have the details. Talk with people who are intimately-familiar with the complexity of sexual abuse allegations, particularly ones that does not include criminal charges, I would suggest.
With no due respect, shut the hell up. I can form whatever thoughts I want on the matter, know enough about when allegations like this happen they're almost always true, and judge you for routinely coming to post this crap over and over again.

I wasn't even talking to you anyway. Seems I struck a nerve to encourage someone to follow their gut if they're not feeling great about a situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #113 ·
Man…..You have jumped to conclusions about which you really don’t have the details. Talk with people who are intimately-familiar with the complexity of sexual abuse allegations, particularly ones that does not include criminal charges, I would suggest.
What do you know about the complexities of these situations? Are you a “leading expert?” Like a Tom Tremblay? Talk to people who are intimately familiar with the men’s basketball team, specifically coeds. Talk to those intimately familiar with a specific former star player too… there’s a very big pattern of behavior that many of those close to the situation have alleged. There are reasons many have stayed silent (the whisper network around Burlington that has already Completely assassinated the character of one credible victim; the fact many have felt physically unsafe after their experiences; the fact that a former player is heavily connected in the Vermont political scene and works on the campaign of a state senator; the cozy relationship of the hoops team to the local PD — yeah there’s stuff that seems to never make the papers up there — the fact that a “leading expert” on handling sexual trauma situations with a police background is a booster for Athletics / hoops)… there are some very big reasons why survivors are scared to come forward…

But then again, from what I hear, there are more and more and some are going to go public sooner than later…
 

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Man…..You have jumped to conclusions about which you really don’t have the details. Talk with people who are intimately-familiar with the complexity of sexual abuse allegations, particularly ones that does not include criminal charges, I would suggest.
This is pathetic. It seems you have a problem with people making decisions based on how they feel. Stop peddling your lack of empathy and sense of superiority on this subject.
 

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This is pathetic. It seems you have a problem with people making decisions based on how they feel. Stop peddling your lack of empathy and sense of superiority on this subject.
Simply said - feelings can NEVER dictate what should happen re the allegations. This, my friends, is offered by someone who has dealt professionally with helping countless victims through such experiences. Period. Over and out.
 

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Simply said - feelings can NEVER dictate what should happen re the allegations. This, my friends, is offered by someone who has dealt professionally with helping countless victims through such experiences. Period. Over and out.
The fact that you're super defensive and can't leave it alone that others, who have read multiple victim accounts, including one where a victim came forward and stated the school did everything it could to get their ideal solution of an informal investigation which would result in no consequences for the alleged rapist on the men's basketball team, putting team success and the alleged rapist's success over her physical, emotional, and mental wellbeing, are feeling uncomfortable with the idea of giving their money to the school in the form of season tickets because they feel there are too many unanswered questions says a hell of a lot more about you as a person than it does any of us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #117 ·
Simply said - feelings can NEVER dictate what should happen re the allegations. This, my friends, is offered by someone who has dealt professionally with helping countless victims through such experiences. Period. Over and out.
Nothing about you in any way indicates you help victims. You have the background of a police officer — can be a very noble profession, but by and large the way departments handle rape and sexual assault has largely compounded the trauma of victims and makes it even harder for them to come forward. You’ve built your resume up to be one of some national level activities, but mostly you help organizations, companies and corporations handle these situations.

The fact you are a known supporter of UVM hoops, booster of the athletic department, involved alumnus and have not once used your platform to make any sort of public statement calling for transparency (that isn’t presuming guilt, just calling for transparency) or statement of any sort of support saying victims aren’t alone speaks volumes.

The fact you and I both know from the alumni and Athletics networks that some really horrific, presumptive statements completely attacking the character of Kendall Ware and making some horrific, completely unfounded claims about her and the events that happened that night — claims being peddled by people who weren’t there and thus have no basis to make such claims — and yet you remain silent on this is very telling about you and your priorities.

Someone who is truly a victim ally and trauma informed knows that they can, and indeed need to, shut down the kind of victim blaming character assassinations and ignorant rhetoric peddled about survivors whenever they come forward, the rhetoric being told in alumni and Vermont athletic circles, and that you can shut that kind of nonsense down without assessing guilt to the other side.

Your silence speaks volumes about you and what your priorities are.
 

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Simply said - feelings can NEVER dictate what should happen re the allegations. This, my friends, is offered by someone who has dealt professionally with helping countless victims through such experiences. Period. Over and out.

Man…..You have jumped to conclusions about which you really don’t have the details. Talk with people who are intimately-familiar with the complexity of sexual abuse allegations, particularly ones that does not include criminal charges, I would suggest.
You're Tom Tremblay? And this is the garbage you're peddling online and how you really feel? Is this how you talk to victims of sexual assault? The issues surrounding UVM Athletics and its boosters are deeper than I realized.
 

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You're Tom Tremblay? And this is the garbage you're peddling online and how you really feel? Is this how you talk to victims of sexual assault? The issues surrounding UVM Athletics and its boosters are deeper than I realized.
Sorry to disappoint, folks. But here is the problem with all the emotion and presumptions that have been triggered here: I am NOT Tom Tremblay, who I happen to know. I happen to have been a child protective social worker, not a cop. Have at it with your personal attacks if you are so inspired. I am done with this conversation.
 

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Simply said - feelings can NEVER dictate what should happen re the allegations.
This would be true of any sort of legal proceedings for sure. But to say feelings shouldn't dictate how a fan should make their own decisions is absurd. If a fan is uncomfortable with how a situation was handled, regardless of the outcome, they have every right to make decisions based on that. Hell, in a similar situation, there is a reason why I never draft Ben Roethlisberger and will no longer draft Deshaun Watson in fantasy football. Have either been convicted of anything? No, but that doesn't matter. A Catamount fan that doesn't want to renew basketball tickets because they don't feel the university did right by the athletes has every single right to do so and I really don't understand how you can say their feelings shouldn't dictate that.
 
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